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So TOXIC In Ranked Warzone Devs Need To Look Into This

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
So TOXIC In Ranked Warzone Devs Need To Look Into This

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
08.14.2019 , 11:11 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
I'm giggling at a mental image of OP trying to play an online shooter where you get cursed out by 13 year olds
Exactly. This game is so tame compared to virtually every other online game that I've played. That's partly why I marvel at these kinds of threads.

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
08.14.2019 , 11:19 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
These are two totally separate arguments though. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that people being toxic in ranked is leading to less people playing it, so if the ranked players want it to grow, they should be less "toxic". That's a reasonable opinion, and it might be right, though I don't think it is.

The original poster and the other poster I replied to think that such ranked "toxicity" should be actively monitored and punished by Bioware. That is a totally different matter, and that is what I'm forcefully arguing against. Just because someone's feelings got hurt does not justify banning people. Again, if you think someone's speech is bad, the best solution is more speech, not censorship. And if banning people whose speech you don't like isn't censorship, I don't know what is.

Also, and this shouldn't need to be said but let me be clear, I am not one of the toxic people in ranked that OP was referencing. I usually don't say anything in ranked beyond calling a strat. Sometimes if someone is egregiously bad in many ranked games in a row, I'll say something tame like "stop queueing ranked until you learn how to use your dcds in regs" or something like that. Others are for more harsh, but that's up to them. And if that does lead to less people playing ranked, so be it. Censoring such people would be a far greater wrong than a dead ranked queue.
I guarantee you, its right. Look around at the posts, many people posting that they want to theyd like to but.... toxicity. And those are just the ones that bother to post here.

It isnt censorship to ban people that violate a terms of service, they do it all the time for various reasons. Its the whole "fire in a crowded theater" argument... you have the right to free speech, but that doesnt make you immune to its consequences.

More speech achieves nothing... i speak out at someone being toxic it inevitably turns to attacking me as well. Now i dont care at all what people say to me, ive never been shy about voicing my views and i do often defend people in game that are being bullied, but the source of the problem is that toxicity, and speaking against it only begets more of it. You know this, or you should.

You may not be part of the problem, but by defending them you enable them, thus by extension, you kind of are. At minimum you are not part of the solution. People like you that have a presence here should be helping build, not tear down.

Dont trip over your social agendas here, this is a game, games have rules, not boing a jerk is the most basic of them.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
08.14.2019 , 11:28 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Dowillia View Post
Satele Shan Server

I play pvp all the time in the Unranked Warzones and I consider myself not to bad. I am not the best but neither am I the worse player so before you say anything and attempt to blame me for lousy playing like this forum usually does, instead of using constructive criticism, keep that in mind. In addition the gear excuse does not cut it either because I am fully geared with the highest rating including augments. And Yes I do know what I am doing. Every single time I have gone into Ranked Warzone it has been extremely unpleasant due to negative bullying behaviour of other players. If they are not swearing at you with a constant stream of curse words and other forms of abusive words, then they are blaming you for some other absurd reason. Even if the team I am on wins. If It is not happening to me on the team then it is happening to another member on the same team. Either way you can't win.

Strangely enough I am finding most of the players who are in Ranked are also Imperial Players. Definitely outnumbered. There are always more imperials than pubs fighting in Ranked Warzone. I do not have a problem with that but I do not appreciate the Toxic Bullying and Abusive Behaviour that is too often displayed in Ranked Warzone. This is very discouraging to see that it is allowed to go on and I can see why people get turned off from even trying it after the initial experience. The devs really need to do something about this because it is absolutely ridiculous. It is online bullying and its nasty and its abusive. In the meantime I shall continue to report this behaviour whenever I am in Ranked Warzone because that is about all I can do atm. People are in this game to have fun, they are not in this game to get bullied and abused by other players who have to big of an ego and ruin it for everyone else!

Keep in mind I have not checked back into Ranked Warzone since about mid July, because it has been so disgusting and also since Mike Bradley July PVP Report which actually indicated there were some other abuses going on as well that resulted in suspension of accounts, no suprise there , maybe things have changed since then, but I am highly doubting it. Nuff Said.
While I totally agree with you, I can assure you that there is nothing Bioware can do about it...

It is just the nature of online player vs player and hiding behind the internet anonimity...

I've had a lot of unpleasant experiences in ranked years ago and it got a point where I still have a phobia to que despite me being a much better player than I was at the beginning. It's far less toxic than it was back then due to the population getting lower and lower with time.

Toxicity is one of the major reasons why people avoid ranked which is sad.. If we had more people queing everyone would get games for their own bracket/ skill level.

Some players where and are absolute cancer. You don't want to know the extremes they are willing to go in order to hurt you IF you let them.

All that you can do is let it go, use ignore function, turn off chat... Accept the fact that whenever you que and make mistakes there is a chance that someone might flame you. thi
Click the link below if you want to try out the game for 7 days as a sub or want extra game time added for free, enjoy:

http://www.swtor.com/r/3Qgyzv

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
08.14.2019 , 12:16 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
I guarantee you, its right. Look around at the posts, many people posting that they want to theyd like to but.... toxicity. And those are just the ones that bother to post here.
We have very different interpretations of those posts though. Many of the people complaining about "toxicity" in ranked queued a handful of times, got globaled, got flamed, then come to the forums to complain. Such people should not be taken seriously. Again, if people are queueing for ranked and stop queueing due to what they perceive as "toxicity," ranked isn't for them.

So, so many of the people, I'd hazard a guess at 90%+, that complain about ranked "toxicity" on these forums don't even play ranked. As someone that queues ranked almost every day, I'm telling you that there is no "toxicity" problem in ranked. The vast majority of games there is very little said in chat. Sometimes there is mild trash talking. Occasionally there are ******es that insult people. There is no crazy harassment or threats or anything rising to a level of concern.

Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
It isnt censorship to ban people that violate a terms of service, they do it all the time for various reasons. Its the whole "fire in a crowded theater" argument... you have the right to free speech, but that doesnt make you immune to its consequences.
Of course it's censorship to ban people from speaking, for their speech...that is the purest form of censorship. Again, Bioware can do it if they want to, but let's not pretend. As for the fire in a crowded theater, that is an exception to free speech, meaning it's not protected speech because it's incitement. But anyway, as I've said before, yes, if you say stupid or offensive things, you can potentially face consequences for it, but that doesn't mean every consequence is appropriate. Should we put people to death for toxicity? Obviously not. We shouldn't ban them either; we should shame them, if anything.

Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
More speech achieves nothing... i speak out at someone being toxic it inevitably turns to attacking me as well. Now i dont care at all what people say to me, ive never been shy about voicing my views and i do often defend people in game that are being bullied, but the source of the problem is that toxicity, and speaking against it only begets more of it. You know this, or you should.
If you don't like what someone is saying, you have a few options. One is to completely ignore them. Another is to speak out against them. You want to silence such people. In my opinion, the consequences of silencing speech we don't like is far, far worse than whatever problem you think that speech is causing.

Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
You may not be part of the problem, but by defending them you enable them, thus by extension, you kind of are. At minimum you are not part of the solution. People like you that have a presence here should be helping build, not tear down.
I'm happy to defend and enable people in this circumstance. And I've said before, I don't think perceived "toxicity" is an actual problem. There are some people in the ranked community that are truly vile people that I don't like. But I hope that they remain free to express themselves however they chose. I'm not a hypocrite in that respect. I believe in actual free speech in all circumstances, not just when it's convenient or when you agree with what people are saying.

Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
Dont trip over your social agendas here, this is a game, games have rules, not boing a jerk is the most basic of them.
That's a rather silly rule. If there were no jerks, online games would get boring fast. And I've never heard a single justification for enhanced censorship in games other than to protect peoples' feelings. That's not a good enough reason to silence people.

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
08.14.2019 , 12:25 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
We have very different interpretations of those posts though. Many of the people complaining about "toxicity" in ranked queued a handful of times, got globaled, got flamed, then come to the forums to complain. Such people should not be taken seriously. Again, if people are queueing for ranked and stop queueing due to what they perceive as "toxicity," ranked isn't for them.

So, so many of the people, I'd hazard a guess at 90%+, that complain about ranked "toxicity" on these forums don't even play ranked. As someone that queues ranked almost every day, I'm telling you that there is no "toxicity" problem in ranked. The vast majority of games there is very little said in chat. Sometimes there is mild trash talking. Occasionally there are ******es that insult people. There is no crazy harassment or threats or anything rising to a level of concern.

Of course it's censorship to ban people from speaking, for their speech...that is the purest form of censorship. Again, Bioware can do it if they want to, but let's not pretend. As for the fire in a crowded theater, that is an exception to free speech, meaning it's not protected speech because it's incitement. But anyway, as I've said before, yes, if you say stupid or offensive things, you can potentially face consequences for it, but that doesn't mean every consequence is appropriate. Should we put people to death for toxicity? Obviously not. We shouldn't ban them either; we should shame them, if anything.



If you don't like what someone is saying, you have a few options. One is to completely ignore them. Another is to speak out against them. You want to silence such people. In my opinion, the consequences of silencing speech we don't like is far, far worse than whatever problem you think that speech is causing.



I'm happy to defend and enable people in this circumstance. And I've said before, I don't think perceived "toxicity" is an actual problem. There are some people in the ranked community that are truly vile people that I don't like. But I hope that they remain free to express themselves however they chose. I'm not a hypocrite in that respect. I believe in actual free speech in all circumstances, not just when it's convenient or when you agree with what people are saying.



That's a rather silly rule. If there were no jerks, online games would get boring fast. And I've never heard a single justification for enhanced censorship in games other than to protect peoples' feelings. That's not a good enough reason to silence people.
It has nothing to do with protecting peoples feeling, jesus h man come on... being a jerk in any situation generally gets you told to not be a jerk, thats just life, hiding behind censorship to protect being a jerk while complaining about protecting other peoples feeling when they were the wronged is just quality agenda.
Your taking a silly position here in my opinion and well just have to agree to disagree.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
08.14.2019 , 12:41 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
If you don't like what someone is saying, you have a few options. One is to completely ignore them. Another is to speak out against them. You want to silence such people. In my opinion, the consequences of silencing speech we don't like is far, far worse than whatever problem you think that speech is causing.
I'm not a huge fan of "toxic" chat messages, but I'm not going to argue that. I just want to say...

There is another option too. Engage them. Get them to help you.

Now, before you laugh too hard... There was an old player here who went by the handle "DomiSoto" (somewhat famous for the old "pvp a day" thread), and I saw her do exactly this over and over. She would get flamed by someone, and the next thing I saw she was dueling them and getting instruction. It was, to me, very impressive actually.

That was in "regs", so maybe "ranked toxicity" is different, but I doubt it. I suspect that most players would take a few minutes to try to help if asked politely.

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF

Csjbo's Avatar


Csjbo
08.14.2019 , 12:51 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
I'm not a huge fan of "toxic" chat messages, but I'm not going to argue that. I just want to say...

There is another option too. Engage them. Get them to help you.

Now, before you laugh too hard... There was an old player here who went by the handle "DomiSoto" (somewhat famous for the old "pvp a day" thread), and I saw her do exactly this over and over. She would get flamed by someone, and the next thing I saw she was dueling them and getting instruction. It was, to me, very impressive actually.

That was in "regs", so maybe "ranked toxicity" is different, but I doubt it. I suspect that most players would take a few minutes to try to help if asked politely.
This is why it's important to differentiate between 'toxic' comments made by someone immediately after a loss because of tilt, which they would hope no one take personally......with 'toxic' comments made by someone who is a flat-out jerk, with total apathy towards their intended target. The former can definitely be engaged with constructively (albeit right after a rough loss may not be the best time) and the latter usually isn't, therefore should be ignored.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
08.14.2019 , 01:11 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
"Toxic" messages are already against the rules of conduct as put forth by bioware...

https://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct



Pretty clear to me that it actually is against the rules to even insult people "a little".

Of course, bioware doesn't enforce any of it. So it might as well not exist.
they enforce it a little. I think you have to report it, usually a few ppl need to report. [rhymes with katana] has been banned quite a bit. mind you, we're talking about 1-day bans. but they do ban for verbal abuse. I only know about him b/c he's mentioned it in twitch chat. kinda comical how light the actions are, but they do take them for just words (not hacking).
Krack

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
08.14.2019 , 01:14 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
PS - BW supplies you with the tools you need to combat online toxicity: the ignore function. You don't have to read any of their chat. Additionally, you can turn off chat during matches. 🤷*♂️
can't ignore ppl in SR. need to see strats. imo.
Krack

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
08.14.2019 , 01:32 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
they enforce it a little. I think you have to report it, usually a few ppl need to report. [rhymes with katana] has been banned quite a bit. mind you, we're talking about 1-day bans. but they do ban for verbal abuse. I only know about him b/c he's mentioned it in twitch chat. kinda comical how light the actions are, but they do take them for just words (not hacking).
Yeah, he was my main gripe and my perception that bioware did nothing about him vote kicking me from ranked (which actively prevents me from playing content, which is WAY against the terms of service). I quit the game completely for about a month... Glad to hear I was wrong about that (from you, and I saw JMA's post too earlier in this thread). I should edit my snarky original post. Still not a harsh enough penalty for that behavior in my opinion, but since it happened to me, of course my opinion is a bit slanted.

And, btw, according to my "friends" list, his/her name doesn't rhyme with katana anymore. It now rhymes with Tuna I guess?

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF