Dec:

PvP, did not notice a difference. 3 games for daily. Not that I was expecting a difference anyway.

PvE, slightly stronger. It is about 6% overall buff. Discharge hits harder and RS can hit very close to maul with duplicity.

So I think our burst damage in PvP is just really thrash now for whats supposed to be the tree's specialty.

We got sustained damage that nobody asked for at the cost of nerfs to a setbonus that in its very idea is flawed.

All these Crit-only damage bonusses aren't doing us any favors when crits are not on our side. And supercrits are really bad for the game in general. The very fact that they had to be nerfed is living proof of this.

I know I'm a bit late on the feedback but I only recently got back and I couldn't really gather exactly what the implications of said changes would've been until I experienced them for myself.

I'm sure a few PvE players are going to protest to what I'm about to propose here. However, trust me that if this is done with the right amount of care and precision you'll be none the wiser in PvE and PvP will be a much better experience again.

The problem now is just really that we took a MASSIVE hit in our burst capacity.. a capacity that honestly was already questionable to begin with because outside of that "maul" window.. we weren't a very big threat.

What I propose is that we revert the changes done to Surging Charge as well as Crackling Blasts and remove Voltaic Slash from Dominating Slashes. Instead give sizable damage increases to the BASE DAMAGE of Maul, Ball Lightning and Discharge.

What this would do is it would both increase consistent damage output as well as naturally raising the crit levels due to the base damage itself being higher. I can't really give any numbers here but common sense just says we have to find a healthy balance. This is also where using statistics and stuff would be a good tool for balancing. Rather than the usual "we did this because statistic 2.3 vol 4 said that gary needs a damage increase"

Blizzards Jeff Kaplan actually said something very interesting and respectable a while back in one of their developer updates. "If a statistic says A but the playerbase says B, we need to understand why that is"

I really wish Bioware would incorporate this idea as well..

Dec:

 

PvP, did not notice a difference. 3 games for daily. Not that I was expecting a difference anyway.

 

PvE, slightly stronger. It is about 6% overall buff. Discharge hits harder and RS can hit very close to maul with duplicity.

Both your statements are wrong, unfortunately.

Obviously PvP-wise it was a huge nerf: the burst is gone. I don't know how can't you notice that TWO autocrits are missing...

On the PvE side, the overall dmg is practically the same, no 6% increase whatsoever (as demonstrated by reliable parsers). It is simply more linear and doesn't present the peeks we used to have during the 3 autocrits.

Also, I don't want to sound like an ******e but I'd like to point out a problem that afflicts this forum: it really reminds me of "X-factor selections". More specifically the initial phase where everyone shows up thinking he/she can sing like a superstar.

People should have more selfawareness, be more aware of their effective skills and knowledge.

If you weren't even "expecting a difference" in pvp after reading the changes on the patchnote I don't know what makes you think to be entitled to comment on something you clearly don't grasp.

Don't feel offended here, I'm just being realistic. I took you as example just because it just happened... again...

It is fairly easy to explain why reducing the burst and buffing the sustained damage on a class that in PvP can't stay in fight for long does make a huge difference: how does a Sin survive in a difficult fight? Does it pop a strong DCD and keeps fighting, like a Merc or other classes? No, it vanishes.

So how is it gonna benefit from more sustained over burst? It doesn't, correct.

It is also kinda sad that this change happened. Not because it's a nerf (as sins we are used to it), but because it shows that someone has no clue what to do with this class.

Improving its burst in 6.0 was, at this point I'm not even sure it was intended, the right solution to fix its problems.

Just the Maul spam was DISGUSTING. A more elegant burst combo would have been awesome and perfectly represented its concept: a glass cannon with a strong and solid burst, when available.

Both your statements are wrong, unfortunately.

Obviously PvP-wise it was a huge nerf: the burst is gone. I don't know how can't you notice that TWO autocrits are missing...

On the PvE side, the overall dmg is practically the same, no 6% increase whatsoever (as demonstrated by reliable parsers). It is simply more linear and doesn't present the peeks we used to have during the 3 autocrits.

 

Also, I don't want to sound like an ******e but I'd like to point out a problem that afflicts this forum: it really reminds me of "X-factor selections". More specifically the initial phase where everyone shows up thinking he/she can sing like a superstar.

People should have more selfawareness, be more aware of their effective skills and knowledge.

If you weren't even "expecting a difference" in pvp after reading the changes on the patchnote I don't know what makes you think to be entitled to comment on something you clearly don't grasp.

Don't feel offended here, I'm just being realistic. I took you as example just because it just happened... again...

 

It is fairly easy to explain why reducing the burst and buffing the sustained damage on a class that in PvP can't stay in fight for long does make a huge difference: how does a Sin survive in a difficult fight? Does it pop a strong DCD and keeps fighting, like a Merc or other classes? No, it vanishes.

So how is it gonna benefit from more sustained over burst? It doesn't, correct.

 

It is also kinda sad that this change happened. Not because it's a nerf (as sins we are used to it), but because it shows that someone has no clue what to do with this class.

Improving its burst in 6.0 was, at this point I'm not even sure it was intended, the right solution to fix its problems.

Just the Maul spam was DISGUSTING. A more elegant burst combo would have been awesome and perfectly represented its concept: a glass cannon with a strong and solid burst, when available.

Avoiding PvP discussions, yes, there is on overall PvE damage increased. It is not an opinion. Will see parses soon (you did not link any and I did the math). The loss in 6 GCD burst window is about 10-12%, while outside that window the gain is 8-9%. You can do the calculations yourself based on valk damage distribution. Assuming you have 7% alacrity, you should be doing between 4-6% more damage.

Also, losing guaranteed critic, is not 100% damage loss. In 2 melee hits, 1 is going to critic. If you have the right stats you should be at ~42% critic chance (47% after force critic). In 2 hits one would critic, so we lost 1, not 2 critics. More accurately 53 in every 100. So, in 2 mauls and assassinate following recklessness, 2 are going to critic now (1 guaranteed and 1 in 2 based on regular critic chance) as compared to all 3 critc before.

As for PvP, not my territory as of late. Again, if deception was wholly dependent on 1 extra critic, you probably were playing it wrong. If you think deception was originally weak and needed a major buff, that is a different issue.

Not going to bother regarding dec. being glass cannon. GL selling that, LMAO.

Avoiding PvP discussions, yes, there is on overall PvE damage increased. It is not an opinion. Will see parses soon (you did not link any and I did the math). The loss in 6 GCD burst window is about 10-12%, while outside that window the gain is 8-9%. You can do the calculations yourself based on valk damage distribution. Assuming you have 7% alacrity, you should be doing between 4-6% more damage.

 

Also, losing guaranteed critic, is not 100% damage loss. In 2 melee hits, 1 is going to critic. If you have the right stats you should be at ~42% critic chance (47% after force critic). In 2 hits one would critic, so we lost 1, not 2 critics. More accurately 53 in every 100. So, in 2 mauls and assassinate following recklessness, 2 are going to critic now (1 guaranteed and 1 in 2 based on regular critic chance) as compared to all 3 critc before.

 

As for PvP, not my territory as of late. Again, if deception was wholly dependent on 1 extra critic, you probably were playing it wrong. If you think deception was originally weak and needed a major buff, that is a different issue.

 

Not going to bother regarding dec. being glass cannon. GL selling that, LMAO.

I don't know if you're serious or just trying to waste my time, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

The difference between a normal crit and an autocrit is pretty damn big on a skill like Maul that benefits from multiple passives and buffs.

Since you like Maths, here is the formula:

Normal Critical Hit = Normal Hit x (1 + Critical Multiplier x 1)

Autocrit = Critical Hit = Normal Hit x (1 + Critical Multiplier x [1,Critical Chance])

Meaning that, for example, with a Maul that normally hits for 20k, a crit multiplier of 72% and a crit chance of 47% you will have

Maul Normal Critical = 20000 x (1 + 0.72 x 1) = 34400

Maul Autocrit = Critical Hit = 20000 x (1 + 0.72 x 1.47) = 41168

And I'm being generous with 20k because with an higher base damage the difference would be even bigger, not even factoring Duplicity, Maul crit multiplier boost from passive, etc. That's why you see ~70k autocrit Maul but just ~45k at best without autocrit.

Now you can go back LMAOing wherever you came from, possibly a little bit more knowledgeable.

I agree with the bigger base damage on our big hitters and create a new tactical that would possibly give us some staying power while duking it out with our kill targets.

-tactical-

Shortens cooldown on force speed by 5 seconds. You gain a stacking shield with Discharge and Ball Lightning that returns HP every time you are hit with an attack.

You guys are on a crusade that won't see you satisfied until we have so much power we can just roflstomp whatever with great ease because we would be so overtuned.

Assassin strong, just needs some other classes turned down not turned assassin into monster overkiller. Operative(tools, little damage), Powertech(burst), Juggernaut(damage) needs take nerfs.

You guys are on a crusade that won't see you satisfied until we have so much power we can just roflstomp whatever with great ease because we would be so overtuned.

 

Assassin strong, just needs some other classes turned down not turned assassin into monster overkiller. Operative(tools, little damage), Powertech(burst), Juggernaut(damage) needs take nerfs.

How does your mind even work?

Just because we're not complete dog**** doesn't mean there aren't any things to improve upon.

so I have yet to see a 70k maul that I have done. My biggest crit so far is 46k- that using an un augmentnted DK set and elemental blade tact, and I m too poor tto afford the augments atm.

That being said, I reguarly see other classes like dps tank juggernauts hit me for 38k all the time with 2 of their attacks.

Our biggest attack is postional while other classes have hard hitting, non postional abilities