My experience in this game has been a level 50 jugg and just a myriad of other lower level everything (and 4 months in beta). Okay, first thing we see in the game (and this is a major blah for me) - The Character Creation. It is absolutely dreadful. Obviously its not on the level of suckiness that you see in your average F 2 P Korean Grindfest (but not by alot) especially if you've played any Bioware game in the past. There are only 4 body types for men, and they are each varying degrees of awful to meh. There's Shape 1: which is Justin Beiber (and what is used for "kids") Shape 2: which is your average Bruce Lee build, then there's Shape 3: which is Big McLarge-Huge, and Shape 4: which is Lord Lard ***. Shape 4 is absolutely awful, and for Sith Warriors, is the shape of your Master, which, if you look at his Wiki, is not how he should look at all. It makes no sense.

The races are...well...everything is just "Human-like". Obviously this was done for cutscenes and voices (i.e. - no wookie would talk like your character) but there are still races like Togruta or Nautolan that would be fine but are not in. Chiss are pretty sweet however. There is no long hair to be seen in Char creation - at best you have hair that goes down to your chin. I guess this is because it would be too graphically intensive (boggled)? Complexions and scars aren't so bad, its just a shame you can't stack them. And yes, no sliders still, so you have to choose predetermined faces. For a game where you spend alot of time looking at your character in cut-scenes...the amount of corner-cutting in CC is disappointing. It should have been one of the top five priorities. The number of unique models in this game from chars to NPCs is also staggeringly low.

The graphics were no doubt simplified to accommodate as many systems as possible, like World of Warcraft, and I understand that. But if that is the case then why does the game for me and so many others run like absolute crap? I understand its an MMO but this is just inexcusable. Where the heck are the decent textures, too?

Okay, gameplay. Know World of Warcraft? Good news, you already know how to play 85% of the game! Played KOTOR only? Bad news, there is basically nothing from KOTOR in this that warrants mention. Its your standard MMO affair; Tanks, Heals, DPS, Burst Damage, DOT, taunts, rotations, etc. If you're used to MMOs then you're in luck because it does that pretty well. Although, tanking as my Jedi Guardian has been a fittingly in-character practice in testing my patience. You dont get your first taunt until 15 and it has a long cool down. Your robot companion tanks better than you in some cases. The gameplay is the same tired, WoW gameplay but with a combat delay which makes it worse, and the game suffers big time for it.

The missions are the biggest flaw in this game. Every quest is a variation of "Go here, kill stuff along the way for bonus maybe, kill boss or interact with object" or "Collect 5 blah blah blah" with varying degrees of logic in their drops. It seemingly has all the flavor in the world, (which does help a little), but still doesn't change the fact that is essentially how every quest is designed. But maybe that is nit picking? Your choices in quests rarely matter at all. Story is this game's real saving grace, and why it goes from "Mediocre MMO" to "has-potential MMO." Imperial Agent's story was a freaking blast, but after you finish all the storylines, if you even do that... what is next? Endgame in this game is pretty much non-existent. One or two mediocre raids... And yes, Bioware continues the proud tradition of Dark Side = Stupid Evil Jerk. I was hoping DS Jedi Knight would mean "Emotional and Prideful" but nope, just "AHAHA LOOK HOW EVIL I AM FOR NO REASON".

Another issue is every faction goes through the same planet order. Your Bounty Hunter and Sith Warrior's planets after the first one will be the exact same experience as will the quests - save for your personal class quests. This will make replay value for someone like me who can't stand doing the same thing again very difficult beyond level 10 when it all meshes together. Also this makes the whole "KOTOR 3-11" claim by BioWare a total farce in my eyes. Class storylines are only 20% of the game. Everyone shares about 80% and one of the best features I would list were removed.. Your armor could be matched to the color of whatever your chest piece was, avoiding clown armor. They removed that...The robust and complex nature of the crafting system we saw in beta? Gutted completely.. removed for simplicity to appease the least common denominator.

All in all ,the story of this game is pretty good and had me hooked for the first 2 weeks. Sadly, the gameplay made it where it was a chore. I was FORCING MYSELF THROUGH GAMEPLAY for the story. That's unacceptable for an MMO where gameplay should always be important. Maybe this game will improve in the future, but for now, this game is just another WoW clone (in space) with kinda cool cut scenes - and with a lot less real content.

The painful UI issues...Cant search the AH, bad UI with no customization, search filtering doesn't work on menus, no dual spec, and respec is EXPENSIVE. There are just so many features you should expect but are missing. It attempts to be like WoW, without the things that made WoW popular. It just has neat storylines but that is all it brings to the table. I'm terribly upset that the reply value and long-term hook does not seem to be in place at all. This means 30 to 60 days and a lot will lose interest.

I understand that many will not like this review but you need to look at this "without" being subjective. I'm saying that for the dollars and time that have been spent on this game it does not come close to the graphics of AOC (unless you had a terrible PC and couldn't see its full beauty), the smooth gameplay of WOW, the out-of-box UI options of RIFT, the customization of WOWs UI, the innovation of EVE, the PVP of Shadowbane, UO, or DAOC, and the story of LOTRO. SWTOR so far is just missing something profound from all of these dimensions besides class storylines.

Edited some but agree with nearly 100% of http://www.metacritic.com/user/Thorn14 from MetaCritic review.

I would write my own review but it would look so much like this one its not funny

bw dev better get there act together if they are going to get people to keep paying subs.

I suspect the ave mmo player will be done with leveling within the free 30 daqys if not def after the first sub month so the big question is what is there to keep mmo players after that.

currently nothing exists to keep a player playing after playing through the storyline once imo

there is sio much atm missing that is considered bare minimum standard in MMO's

I always find it funny how people compare **** to WoW, while WoW is a amalgamation of every single other MMO that was out there.

Rogue mechanics? stolen from DaoC

Questing Mechanics? AC

Mage Mechanics etc etc EQ.

I can go on and on and on, but this kinda debunks least one of your points about the tiredsome same ol same ol MMO gameplay.

This has been tested and tried since 1994 for MMO's (Neverwinter Nights, no not the Bioware one), that your own experience doesn't go back that far means that a little research would have done your review alot of extra good.

Cool story bro.

Can I have your stuff?

I always find it funny how people compare **** to WoW, while WoW is a amalgamation of every single other MMO that was out there.

Rogue mechanics? stolen from DaoC

Questing Mechanics? AC

Mage Mechanics etc etc EQ.

 

I can go on and on and on, but this kinda debunks least one of your points about the tiredsome same ol same ol MMO gameplay.

This has been tested and tried since 1994 for MMO's (Neverwinter Nights, no not the Bioware one), that your own experience doesn't go back that far means that a little research would have done your review alot of extra good.

Because it's number 1. Hard to understand?

Cool story bro.

 

Can I have your stuff?

xD this!

btw, i do agree with the op for 1 thing only: the delay. the rest, imho, it's pretty useless, because..well, as simple as that, since you say that it's nothing new from other mmo's, i would like to know how would you do a "next gen" mmo. because tbh i can't see an mmo different then this one

I understand that many will not like this review but you need to look at this without being subjective. I'm saying that for $100,000,000+ dollars that has been spent on this game it does not come close to the graphics of AOC, the gameplay of WOW, the UI of RIFT, the customization of WOWs UI, the innovation of EVE, the PVP of Shadowbane or DAOC, and the story of LOTRO.

I will say the graphics in this game are 150% better than AoC. AoC was a piece of s*** game.

I will say the graphics in this game are 150% better than AoC. AoC was a piece of s*** game.

You sir are truly kidding yourself! LMAO!

Guise, my pinto is faster than a Ferrari heheh

That's not a review. That's a bashing of the game, like so many other angsty, whiny posts. I feel there are many issues with the game, but also many bright spots. A good review looks at the good and bad. And you are nuts and obviously biased against the game, if you state there is NOTHING good about the game at all. How ludicrous.

Not really; it's some things that are really wrong. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's "bashing".

I'm saying that for $100,000,000+ dollars that has been spent on this game it does not come close to the graphics of AOC, the gameplay of WOW, the UI of RIFT, the customization of WOWs UI, the innovation of EVE, the PVP of Shadowbane or DAOC, and the story of LOTRO.

Best graphics in an MMO yet? Guild Wars 2

Good (hopefully excellent on release) gameplay and extremely innovative combat (can block, dodge, combine with other classes for additional affect or even enviroment elements)? Guild Wars 2

Decent UI on release? Guild Wars 2

Comlete innovation in PvE enviroment (voice acted, no text AND no collect 5 quests, 1500+ quests of full player interaction with enviroment and other players)? Guild Wars 2

Epic WvWvW PvP and a real competitive arena PvP too? Guild Wars 2

What's the problem, OP?

I always find it funny how people compare **** to WoW, while WoW is a amalgamation of every single other MMO that was out there.

Rogue mechanics? stolen from DaoC

Questing Mechanics? AC

Mage Mechanics etc etc EQ.

 

I can go on and on and on, but this kinda debunks least one of your points about the tiredsome same ol same ol MMO gameplay.

This has been tested and tried since 1994 for MMO's (Neverwinter Nights, no not the Bioware one), that your own experience doesn't go back that far means that a little research would have done your review alot of extra good.

No one really cares that wow copied other mmo's what is important is that they copied them then made major improvements to them.

Swtor is what many professional reviewers are calling a wow clone.... and it really is aside from one thing.... story thats the only thing thats different. Everything else is from wow basically..... but they didn't even do it up to wow's standard despite all of wow's short commings and them dumbing the game down to a 10 year old level. They have a tight setup that allows for fast gameplay, lots of players, and people being able to play the game in general.

swtor copied many wow features and went backwards with them lol. And we call them wow features because while wow may have taken them from other mmo's before them they reworked many of the copied features and made them better. Thus it is a wow feature.

I always find it funny how people compare **** to WoW, while WoW is a amalgamation of every single other MMO that was out there.

Rogue mechanics? stolen from DaoC

Questing Mechanics? AC

Mage Mechanics etc etc EQ.

 

I can go on and on and on, but this kinda debunks least one of your points about the tiredsome same ol same ol MMO gameplay.

This has been tested and tried since 1994 for MMO's (Neverwinter Nights, no not the Bioware one), that your own experience doesn't go back that far means that a little research would have done your review alot of extra good.

Yea after he started comparing it to WoW, his credibility went down the drain...

Best graphics in an MMO yet? Guild Wars 2

 

Good (hopefully excellent on release) gameplay and extremely innovative combat (can block, dodge, combine with other classes for additional affect or even enviroment elements)? Guild Wars 2

 

Decent UI on release? Guild Wars 2

 

Comlete innovation in PvE enviroment (voice acted, no text AND no collect 5 quests, 1500+ quests of full player interaction with enviroment and other players)? Guild Wars 2

 

Epic WvWvW PvP and a real competitive arena PvP too? Guild Wars 2

 

 

 

What's the problem, OP?

Welfare MMO, sub-par pvp, patch always far behind, community that doesn't interact other then to spam you with stuff for sale, a dodge system like the blocking system of AoC that was fail, high system requirements aside from what you may have read, GW2! 99% of the skills you can use are useless.

The fanboys on this thread are as annoying as the trolls that hate on this game.

I love the game so far, don't expect to stop playing for atleast a year or so.

But have to agree with a lot in the review, the main thing for me is the auction house, it is so poorly done, it is hard to understand why it is so poorly done too.

I understand that many will not like this review but you need to look at this without being subjective. I'm saying that for $100,000,000+ dollars that has been spent on this game it does not come close to the graphics of AOC, the gameplay of WOW, the UI of RIFT, the customization of WOWs UI, the innovation of EVE, the PVP of Shadowbane or DAOC, and the story of LOTRO.

Thanks for giving your input, but you unfortunately invalidated it all with this statement. You're expecting a brand new MMO (not even actually a week old yet as far as official release is concerned) from people who are doing an MMO for the first time to have the gameplay or UI customization of games that have been out for years. It's sort of like getting upset at a kindergartner's first drawing because it wasn't of the same quality as comic book artist Stjepan Sejic.

The goal here was to get a playable game out, not hold on to it for so long that it becomes vaporware just because they wanted to be competitive with the masters of the genre right out of the box. The key to an MMO is longevity, not a huge initial flash followed by apathy. From BioWare's perspective, they want people continuing to come into this game, they don't just want it to dwindle to the crowd who are playing because it's the only Star Wars MMO available right now.

With their press release on the front page, I'd say they're well on their way to that goal.

I have every confidence that a lot of things people are asking for will eventually be implemented, but development resources for any game design studio are limited, and have to be prioritized. Right now I'd rather see their priorities going to regularly updating content, fixing a few graphical glitches (I'm tired of seeing the back of my Marauder glow green long after Quinn is done healing me), and adjusting some classes (casters are quite powerful, but Jedi Sentinels/Sith Marauders are leaving a lot to be desired in output even for just baseline questing once you're approaching 30).

Once those things are taken care of, I have no personal issue if they want to give us a customizable UI (within reason; keep in mind that LucasArts gets a say in this game, and aesthetics are really important to George to maintain that "Star Wars feel") or even a group finding tool (though I hope it stays same-realm and doesn't go cross-realm, so people at least attempt to behave to avoid getting blacklisted on their server).

I've got a fairly powerful machine that can handle much more detailed graphics than this game presents, but it doesn't mean I want a graphical upgrade. For those who prioritize graphics, there are plenty of games out there: Aion or Age of Conan if you want MMOs, or Skyrim if you want single player. But I recognize that you can sidestep having cutting-edge graphics by having stylized graphics, and you then let more people play your game, which results in more revenue, which results in more resources for improving the game. I realize the people running with 32 GB of RAM, a quad-core processor with a fan large enough to propel an airplane and bridged 2 GB video cards want a lot from their games. It doesn't mean that every game coming out has to cater to them. If it did, the video game industry would collapse under the weight of no sales to justify high costs: they'd be a niche industry for the people who chose to spend $3,000 on the kinds of computers that Pixar uses to render their movies.

Great if you can afford those machines, but the players who can't also want to play The Old Republic, and BioWare was smart to think of those people too. At the end of the day, for all the people complaining that TOR "wasn't ready for launch" or that BioWare should have "done <insert thing here> to be competitive", I say this: found your own game design studio, design your own game (if you can get the funding), and make the game the way you think it can be made.

For those who are able, I congratulate them. The majority of players posting complaints on these forums and sounding like petulant 12 year-olds, however, aren't capable of that. We're end users, and there's nothing wrong with that until we start thinking that designing from the end user perspective instead of designing to define the end user perspective is a valid design process.

Not really; it's some things that are really wrong. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's "bashing".

But it does mean it's bashing the game. He even explained why it's not a review. Go onto G4TV.com and watch some of their reviews. Even games like Aquaman, or one called something like Drakes 99 Dragons or something like that they talk about the good points of the game. BTW both of those games are the two most loathed games by X-Play ever. They even use to run a gold mullet award to make fun of Aquaman and bad games.

Reviews go over both sides of the game. Like he said to say there is nothing good about the game is absolutely ludicrous and doesn't constitute a review.

So much hate from people liking something another person does not like.

I actually thought he made an effort to put out a well thought out post, but alas that doesn't matter, the defense army is immidiately there to stomp any form of non positive feedback to this game.

-The graphics were no doubt simplified-

Yea...sure was simplified...why the requirements were a quad core CPU, some kinda GTS card and windows 7.

I doubt 90% of the whinigng little gnats were even around @ wow's launch

My god was that bad, MC wassn't available and was created rather fast after the outcry for no endgame content, and hey anyone remember the memory leaks in the first 4 months of BWL lol!

My experience in this game has been a level 40 something imperial agent and just a myriad of other lower level everything (and 4 months in beta). Okay, first thing we see in the game (and this is a major blah for me) - The Character Creation. It is absolutely dreadful. Obviously its not on the level of suckiness that you see in your average F 2 P Korean Grindfest, but not by alot, especially if you've played any Bioware game in the past. There are only 4 body types for men, and they are each varying degrees of awful to meh. Theres Shape 1, which is Justin Beiber (and what is used for "kids") Shape 2 which is your average Bruce Lee build, theres Shape 3 which is Big Mc Large Huge and Shape 4 which is Lord Lard ***. Shape 4 is absolutely awful, and for Sith Warriors, is the shape of your Master, which, if you look at his Wiki, is not how he should look at all. It makes no sense.

 

The races are...well...everything is just "Human-like". Obviously this was done for cutscenes and voices (No wookie would talk like your character) but there are still races like Togruta or Nautolan that would be fine but are not in. Chiss are pretty sweet however. There is no long hair, at best you have hair that goes down to your chin. I guess this is because it would be too graphics intensive? Complexions and Scars aren't so bad, shame you can't stack them. And yes, no sliders still, you choose predetermined faces. For a game where you spend alot of time looking at your character in cutscenes, the amount of corner cutting in CC is disappointing. It should have been one of the top five priorities. The number of unique models in this game, NPC wise is also staggeringly low.

 

The graphics were no doubt simplified to accommodate as many systems as possible, like World of Warcraft, I understand that. But if that is the case, why does the game, for me and so many others run like absolute crap? I understand its an MMO but this is just inexcusable

 

Okay, gameplay. Know World of Warcraft? Good news! You already know how to play 85% of the game! Played KOTOR only? Bad news! Theres basically nothing from KOTOR in this that warrants mention. Its your standard MMO affair. Tanks, Heals, DPS, Burst Damage, DOT, Taunts, Rotations, ETC. If you're used to MMOs then you're in luck. It does that pretty well, although tanking as my Jedi Guardian has been a fittingly in character practice in patience. You dont get your first taunt until 15, and it has a long cool down. Your robot companion tanks better than you. The gameplay is the same tired WoW gameplay but with a combat delay which makes it worse, and the game suffers big time for it.

 

The missions are the biggest flaw in this game. Every quest is a variation of "Go here, kill stuff along the way for bonus maybe, kill boss or interact with object" or "Collect 5 blah blah blah" with varying degrees of logic in their drops,. All the flavor in the world, which does help a little, doesn't change the fact that is every quest. But maybe that is nit picking. Your choices in quests rarely matter as well. Story is this game's real saving grace, and why it goes from "Mediocre MMO" to "has potential." Imperial Agent's story was a freaking blast, but after you finish all the storylines, if you even do that... what next? Endgame in this game is pretty much non-existent. One or two mediocre raids... And yes, Bioware continues the proud tradition of Dark Side = Stupid Evil Jerk. I was hoping DS Jedi Knight would mean "Emotional and prideful" but nope, just "AHAHA LOOK HOW EVIL I AM FOR NO REASON".

 

Another issue is every faction goes through the same planet order. Your Bounty Hunter and Sith Warrior's planets after the first one will be the exact same experience as will the quests - save for your personal class quests. This will make replay value for someone like me who can't stand doing the same thing again very difficult. Also this makes the whole "KOTOR 3-11" claim a total farce. Class storylines are only 20% of the game. Everyone shares about 80% and one of the best features I would list was removed.. Your armor could be matched to the color of whatever your chest piece was, avoiding clown armor. They removed that...

 

All in all ,the story of this game is pretty good and had me hooked for the first 2 weeks. Sadly, the gameplay made it where it was a chore. I was FORCING MYSELF THROUGH GAMEPLAY for the story. That's unacceptable for an MMO where gameplay should always be important. Maybe this game will improve in the future but for now, this game is just another WoW clone, in space, with kinda cool cut scenes, and with a lot less real content.

The painful UI issues...Cant search the AH, bad UI with no customization, search filtering doesn't work on menus, no dual spec, and respec is EXPENSIVE. There are just so many features you should expect missing. It attempts to be like WoW, without the things that made WoW popular. It just has neat storylines. But that is all it brings to the table and I'm terribly upset that the reply value and long-term hook does not seem to be in place at all. This means 30 to 60 days and a lot will lose interest.

 

I understand that many will not like this review but you need to look at this without being subjective. I'm saying that for $100,000,000+ dollars that has been spent on this game it does not come close to the graphics of AOC, the gameplay of WOW, the UI of RIFT, the customization of WOWs UI, the innovation of EVE, the PVP of Shadowbane or DAOC, and the story of LOTRO.

Wow = 7 years of post launch development

SWTOR = 2 week post launch development.

I find you expectancy of any MMO to just come out to have as much, and or, more content then another MMO that has been out for the past 7 years to be ridonkulous

/Thread

I will say the graphics in this game are 150% better than AoC. AoC was a piece of s*** game.

Must be a troll or just using an atari. AOC graphics are amazing still......