I'm not 100% certain that taking turrets off capital ships in Team Deathmatch was ultimately the best idea.

 

I've been in matches where one side or the other has such an overwhelming advantage, that you wind up fighting right on top of a capital ship as newcomers spawn right into your sights.

 

As an experienced pilot it doesn't bother me in the slightest to be on the receiving end, beyond the bruise to the e-ego.

 

Yet I can't help but feel a lot of newcomers to GSF are finding it a decidedly un-enjoyable nor overly rewarding experience which puts them off returning. I'm all for more people playing GSF and more people coming back to the game.

 

So, how about the following solution, which may incidentally solve the perennially cringeworthy, 'enemy flees to safety' tactic that is still as dishonourable a move today as it was back in early release.

 

Perhaps a timer on-spawn would be a better implementation?

 

Once you 'successfully engage an enemy' (you hit someone), or a set time (60s?) has elapsed, the turrets will no longer fire on anyone pursuing you back to the capital ship.

 

Should a teammate spawn while an enemy is inside turret range, the capital ship would only open fire if that enemy shot the newly spawned player, or the newly spawned player engages the enemy.

 

Should you remain at the capital ship with no-enemies in turret range, something bad will happen.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the capital ship blast such a player out of the sky. Summary execution for desertion and breathtaking cowardice in the face of the enemy oughta cover it. 90 minute lockouts for repeat offenders should see the end of that particular tactic.

 

Empire ships should certainly have no qualms enforcing such a rule.

 

Such a system gives new players 60s on the cap ship at spawn to allow them to get their bearings & figure things out as people need to do their first few matches while preventing experienced players from engaging in that most tedious online gaming display of Alpha Dominance, the Spawn Rape of n00bs.

 

Seriously. It's no fun on either end of such games. My Ocula is setup with a stupid set of components all at pretty base level for such matches when it's my side in the ascendency.

Quite a complicated solution. A much simpler 1 (that has been mentioned many times here) would be simply that spawns are 15-20K inside an exhaustion zone and freshly spawned players get a buff that protects them from that and only that for, let's say 15sec (not carved in stone, of course). That's pretty much like in ground PvP, except there are no exhaustion zones there so buff is not needed.

 

Personally though, I don't really care what's done, as long as n00b gunsheep don't run crying to their mommies at the first sign of trouble.

I think that you couldn't turn the cap ship turrets back on unless there was a mechanic to punish the score of a team pushed back to their spawn.

 

 

The current setup- random spawns- is by no means that bad, because there's three of them.

 

 

Here's an alternate: You have an actual objective in the middle that is normally not capped- say it remembers the last player to fly by it, and over the course of one-two minutes gradually changes over to that team. At the very edge of its stats (assume it ranges from like -60 to +60, so the edge would be like 57) it begins awarding points. Also give it a rather large cap range, and if you shoot it when in the enemy's team's possession, it stops making points for awhile.

 

So this objective will punish a team if it is left alone for like, ever, which is the spawn camp situation, without actually being a good objective to circle around or try to push people away from, which wouldn't be effective given the size of the "cap zone". But if your team is well and truly hosed, then you can't even really get close and it eventually starts making "kills" against you.

 

 

 

This is a lot of work, though, and the current model is pretty good, and prevents the rare abuses we saw before (an abuse is a team using capital ship turrets and baiting techniques to be able to effectively accomplish objectives with reduced chances of retaliation, not a gunship barrel rolling back with four scouts who chase him).

Maybe capital ships can release an emp pulse in intervals that kill everything within its turret radius ? Kind of like the explosion at Ancient Hypergates Warzone.

 

Just synchronize explosions with respawn timers and make the emp explosion a bit slow thatthose peopel that spawn right before it can have a chance to boost way.

 

I guess if this can be implemented it can still prevent spawn camping and hinder old the tactic of "get a lead and go wait at safety of capital ship".

Here's an alternate: You have an actual objective in the middle that is normally not capped- say it remembers the last player to fly by it, and over the course of one-two minutes gradually changes over to that team. At the very edge of its stats (assume it ranges from like -60 to +60, so the edge would be like 57) it begins awarding points. Also give it a rather large cap range, and if you shoot it when in the enemy's team's possession, it stops making points for awhile.

 

Unfortunately, 1 possible (and probable) problem comes to mind: BOMBERBALL covered by a gunsheep wall. Currently, that is counterable by simply not going to them and shooting down the sole SFs/scouts that naively get out of it, but if there was an objective... Well, we all know how bomber+GS combo is effective at area denial.

I think that you couldn't turn the cap ship turrets back on unless there was a mechanic to punish the score of a team pushed back to their spawn.

 

if they've been pushed back to their spawn point, the opposition clearly has overwhelming superiority.

 

is that not punishment enough?

if they've been pushed back to their spawn point, the opposition clearly has overwhelming superiority.

 

is that not punishment enough?

 

It's not about "punishment enough".

 

If team A dominates team B so severely that team B has 0 map presence- can't even deploy a gunship or a scout to shoot a giant target in the middle of the map, which no bomberball could defend against- then team A should win faster. Arguably this is because team A should get their req faster, but I'll also point out that team B in this example is just flat out getting farmed.

It's not about "punishment enough".

 

If team A dominates team B so severely that team B has 0 map presence- can't even deploy a gunship or a scout to shoot a giant target in the middle of the map, which no bomberball could defend against- then team A should win faster. Arguably this is because team A should get their req faster, but I'll also point out that team B in this example is just flat out getting farmed.

 

exactly. farming will happen regardless when there's a huge skill/upgrade difference between teams. none of the proposed methods in this thread will save a bunch of n00bs from getting farmed by experienced pilots in mastered ships.

 

some kind of system that punishes the experienced player for playing spawn ****** will give complete n00bs some breathing space when the 'matchmaker' puts a double pre-made up against a ton of new players.

 

i like GSF. I would like it if the nubs had a teensy bit of shelter while they find their feet.

 

being able to take a mate into the tutorial zone would also be a great start.

being able to take a mate into the tutorial zone would also be a great start.

 

That's Sci Fi, for starters they need a decent tutorial.

That's Sci Fi, for starters they need a decent tutorial.

 

I certainly agree the current tutorial badly needs additional content. Not least of which is access to the actual starting ships.

 

The ability to take a friend into the tutorial zone would be a boon for newcomers. Perhaps everyone gets 2x Free Tutorials (one for each of Blackbolt & Rycer, subs get one for Mangler?), then a one-time Cartel Market pass required for each additional one you wish to undertake?

 

It would also offer an e-peen stroking avenue as pilots could have at each other in a 1v1 environment.

I think that you couldn't turn the cap ship turrets back on unless there was a mechanic to punish the score of a team pushed back to their spawn.

 

 

The current setup- random spawns- is by no means that bad, because there's three of them.

 

 

Here's an alternate: You have an actual objective in the middle that is normally not capped- say it remembers the last player to fly by it, and over the course of one-two minutes gradually changes over to that team. At the very edge of its stats (assume it ranges from like -60 to +60, so the edge would be like 57) it begins awarding points. Also give it a rather large cap range, and if you shoot it when in the enemy's team's possession, it stops making points for awhile.

 

So this objective will punish a team if it is left alone for like, ever, which is the spawn camp situation, without actually being a good objective to circle around or try to push people away from, which wouldn't be effective given the size of the "cap zone". But if your team is well and truly hosed, then you can't even really get close and it eventually starts making "kills" against you.

 

 

 

This is a lot of work, though, and the current model is pretty good, and prevents the rare abuses we saw before (an abuse is a team using capital ship turrets and baiting techniques to be able to effectively accomplish objectives with reduced chances of retaliation, not a gunship barrel rolling back with four scouts who chase him).

 

I may not be getting your intended meaning out of this but I think there may be an idea for a new game mode in this...

 

When you look at the map there are labeled rows and columns (5x5 I think), so a team could organize in deathmatch by stating that they're going to set up camp in sector B2 (or wherever). But let's say that there's a node somewhere within every sector. 25 nodes spread out across the entire map, like very small satellites that don't generate defense turrets. Maybe, to go along with something you said somewhere in there, players must shoot at enemy controlled targets to turn them and fly close to their own team's targets to generate extra points for the team.

 

I think this would create a bit of a balancing act for both teams. You need to claim territory, but you don't want to overextend beyond what you can maintain control over. You need to stick close to objectives to generate points, but you also need to find ways to disrupt the enemy from generating points by drawing them away or claiming control of objectives away from them. And there's a lot of terrain to fight over with an objective located in every sector.

 

Although... Perhaps 25 nodes is overkill and it would spread everybody out too thin. Maybe instead it could be 16 nodes located only at the corners of the grid? Or perhaps 9 nodes located only in the central 9 sectors? That way, with 9 nodes, it's still enough to be significantly different from controlling 3 satellites but there's still that element of balancing the domination aspects of the match with the deathmatch aspects of the match.

 

And then... I'm trying to think of some way to toss some mention of neglected nodes subtracting points or turning hostile or whatever other punishment we can imagine for a team with one-sided dominance... I'm not sure how that could work though. I'm not sure what would work best, if the 9 nodes aren't enough already, to encourage that the activity remains in the center of the map.

How about something simple...

 

Cap ship turrets are turned on in deathmatch for the team currently losing.

 

...

 

It was never that hard of a problem to solve, especially if you add in a buffer to the tune of... ~ cap ship turrets don't turn on for the losing team unless they're losing by a difference of (some variable). For example, if the variable is 10, and the score is 30 to 20.... then the team with only 20 kills has cap ship turrets on until the score is 30 to 21. At which time the turrets go back off.

 

This would alleviate issues on all fronts. The winning team can't hide at their ships, if the match is close enough... cap ships aren't deciding the outcome. If the match is one of those blow outs we've all seen, then at least the team getting stomped has a safe zone that can't be camped endlessly.

 

Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity.

Edited July 3, 2014 by RatPoison

How about something simple...

 

Cap ship turrets are turned on in deathmatch for the team currently losing.

 

...

 

It was never that hard of a problem to solve, especially if you add in a buffer to the tune of... ~ cap ship turrets don't turn on for the losing team unless they're losing by a difference of (some variable). For example, if the variable is 10, and the score is 30 to 20.... then the team with only 20 kills has cap ship turrets on until the score is 30 to 21. At which time the turrets go back off.

 

This would alleviate issues on all fronts. The winning team can't hide at their ships, if the match is close enough... cap ships aren't deciding the outcome. If the match is one of those blow outs we've all seen, then at least the team getting stomped has a safe zone that can't be camped endlessly.

 

Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity.

 

Getting spawn camped isn't fun, but I don't understand why creating a scenario where a losing team sits at their capital ships waiting for a match to end by timer is somehow supposed to be more fun.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Anli

They can stay off in TDM as far as I'm concerned. An improvement of the nub experience can be done in many other ways.

Unfortunately, 1 possible (and probable) problem comes to mind: BOMBERBALL covered by a gunsheep wall. Currently, that is counterable by simply not going to them and shooting down the sole SFs/scouts that naively get out of it, but if there was an objective... Well, we all know how bomber+GS combo is effective at area denial.

 

Have multiple cap points that are synchronized. If an enemy ship flies past ANY of them a capture is negated.

How about something simple...

 

Cap ship turrets are turned on in deathmatch for the team currently losing.

 

...

 

It was never that hard of a problem to solve, especially if you add in a buffer to the tune of... ~ cap ship turrets don't turn on for the losing team unless they're losing by a difference of (some variable). For example, if the variable is 10, and the score is 30 to 20.... then the team with only 20 kills has cap ship turrets on until the score is 30 to 21. At which time the turrets go back off.

 

This would alleviate issues on all fronts. The winning team can't hide at their ships, if the match is close enough... cap ships aren't deciding the outcome. If the match is one of those blow outs we've all seen, then at least the team getting stomped has a safe zone that can't be camped endlessly.

 

Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity.

 

 

you win this thread.

Edited July 4, 2014 by dancezwithnubz

My thoughts on this subject are very simple, if you are being spawn camped you are already losing so badly, that nothing is going to save you anyways. The idea that 3 spawn points cant stop you from having any breathing room to play, means that the game is so far skewed nothing is going to matter anyways. If you really wanted turrets to hang back on and fly around where no one can shoot you, you might as well go practice flying in the tutorial or just don't bother hitting the "Ready" button since that will do the same thing as sitting on a capship waiting for the game to end.

Anything to help nubs I say. To be honest I want to play GSF, but I log in, fly towards an enemy, do no damage to him at all, and die, rinse, repeat. I won't be playing GSF again, I'll just level my new toons elsewhere, I can honestly say it's the least enjoyable experience I've ever had in a game in 25 years.

The game needs practice to play. You obviously don't have any of that yet.

The game needs practice to play. You obviously don't have any of that yet.

 

This. I'm freaking tired of all the whinging on this forum.

I think the real issue is that this game is glued to an MMO that features auto target and things like that. It's not a similar type of game. If you died as fast in an MMO as a strike did with just a bomber with heavies shooting him, the devs would fix it- but that's because you can't reasonable turn damage off in an MMO the same you can here. You will definitely have four seconds of uninterrupted uptime in the ground game, but that's a serious tactical error on your opponent part in a game like this.

 

So when someone mentions that they fly forward and die, yes, of course. The simulation level is much lower here- you are flying a space ship at much higher fidelity than you are a sith lord. You would never have control over what your right hand is doing on your smuggler, but you DO have control over how your engine is regenerating three different resources, etc. Move wildly while approaching someone on your scoundrel and you just waste your time, here that can evade or it cannot, depending.

Getting spawn camped isn't fun, but I don't understand why creating a scenario where a losing team sits at their capital ships waiting for a match to end by timer is somehow supposed to be more fun.

 

Well lets consider the reality of things... first, before the turrets were ever killed, I never experienced nor heard of a match where the team losing hid behind their cap ships and waited for the match to end. To the contrary I heard of, but never saw about matches where the winning team would go hide behind their spawn (likely because it was a close match). In fact, at the very worst during the turret era, there would be the few practical pilots that would jump on their gunships and hang at the longest reach while the rest of their (likely) inexperienced team continued to fly out and die. A camping losing team though... I never witnessed something like that.

 

But, sure, ... this is definitely something that could happen in the previously posted solution/fix. I dare to first say that it would be an atypical scenario, and second, what does it matter? You win... the match finishes, life goes on. For all practical concerns, it's not as if we don't already have deathmatches that go for the full length ending with scores like 20-32... you know those ones that are filled with primarily bombers and gunships? I don't particularly find those matches to be fun but it's a part of the game and I can deal with it ...

 

So if the desire is to improve the deathmatch experience in respect to low populations with novices and consequently poor matchmaking... then I would say that my solution, barring some tweaks to the actual variable is a step in a better direction than simply no safe zone and no protected spawn points.

 

And hell, there are always other silly little things that can be added such as timers to end a match should nobody be killed after a specific amount of time. Or you could even throw in a mercy rule, once one team is down 80% or maybe 60% ... the losing team can vote to end the match. Of course, you'd want to have the match last at least a few minutes before such an option got presented.

 

Still... I feel my previous suggestion is the simplest one that considers most of the concerns regarding blow-out deathmatches.

i've come around to the idea of no turrets at all and the spawn point in an exhaustion zone, idea.

 

nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

stand and fight!

i've come around to the idea of no turrets at all and the spawn point in an exhaustion zone, idea.

 

nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

stand and fight!

 

So folks just get the edge of the exhaustion zone camped and/or get popped before exiting, or die in a variety of ways to enemies and exhaustion zone damage as they scurry around trying to figure out how to get out safely.

 

The above suggestion only serves to really move the areas being camped, it doesn't stop the camping or give the other team a distinct advantage in the face of it. Though, that is not to say that the turrets give the many advantages beyond being able to reset a fight, recharge shields, engine power, finish cooldowns etc... But I'd rationalize that having that advantage and security would at least help to a degree in those blowout matches.

So folks just get the edge of the exhaustion zone camped and/or get popped before exiting, or die in a variety of ways to enemies and exhaustion zone damage as they scurry around trying to figure out how to get out safely.

 

The above suggestion only serves to really move the areas being camped, it doesn't stop the camping or give the other team a distinct advantage in the face of it. Though, that is not to say that the turrets give the many advantages beyond being able to reset a fight, recharge shields, engine power, finish cooldowns etc... But I'd rationalize that having that advantage and security would at least help to a degree in those blowout matches.

 

serious question: have you ever been in a boxing ring or on the mats at a martial arts tournament?

you learn a lot about yourself in those situations.

two lessons, amongst many but two I learned that translate directly to the subject at hand:

 

1: no-one ever improved by fighting people they can crush.

2: running from a fight does not make you a better fighter.