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Hard Mode Operations Group Finder


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ive used the group finder to do some SM ops and some HM fps, but i cant find an option to do HM or NM ops. There just Story Mode, FPs, HM FPs, and planetary destinations. is there some requirement u nd to meet to do HM ops, or is ther something else i am missing?
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Yeah, as of right now there are no options for HM Ops. The reason for that is most likely because there is no "gear check" for the group finder at the moment, and you don't want some new 50 in you're group with crap gear for a HM Ops. Things would go really wrong, really quick.
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k thnx for the info! hoping for an option for harrd mode ops :D

I would think that pugging HM Denova would be a major chore.

 

Best chance to be able to finish it without trying to eat your keyboard in frustration is to do it with a guild.

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because do you really want to try a hard mode operation with random people? sure, some might have good gear, but alot would just be stuck with maybe a single good peice of gear, and the rest crap. then you would be eaten alive by the mobs which a premade group would be able to tackle easily.
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I guess u guys are right. wudnt want to be stuck with some fresh 50s in gear theve been usuing since 45 :(

 

another question, i cant see an option to do story mode explosive conflict. is that not on the group finder either?

Edited by Meirv
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Story mode Denova is equal to Hard Mode EV and KP in terms of difficulty and gear requirements.

 

People really need to figure out that point. Tired of people in chat "LFG HM EV, KP, EC" and when they get in group they don't have the gear req for HM EC and haven't done sm EC.

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kk thnx. i jus happen to have another question. My character is in full battlemaster gear. is that good enough for hard mode ops?

All that expertise has a considerable stat loss in other areas. I just fiddled with askmrrobot for a Commando dps build.

 

Full Columi:

18k health

990 damage

400 bonus damage

1516 aim

31% crit

72% surge

 

Full Battlemaster

16k health

960 damage

370 bonus damage

1391 aim

34% crit

70% surge

 

If you really knew the mechanics and were with a good group, you could pull it off, I suppose.

 

I would recommend gearing your PVE set instead.

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kk thnx. i jus happen to have another question. My character is in full battlemaster gear. is that good enough for hard mode ops?

 

I mean, theoretically you can but I would strongly advise against it. The reason being that the expertise that you get from the PvP gear does absolutely nothing for you in PvE. It's strictly player damage/healing/damage reduction.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I don't get why they don't put in Explosive Conflict in the group finder. How about a gear check? Or put in a group finder version of the operation.

 

Because Explosive Conflict is, relative to the other Storymode Operations, insanely difficult and intentionally so. I'd actually say it is harder than Nightmare KP/EV. It really is something that Pugging is a recipe for disaster with. If you have 4 people in a guild and you get 4 randoms from the fleet to finish the group and everyone has voice then it is doable but a pure LFG group? No. No chance.

 

As for doing HM EV/KP in Battlemaster - it's perfectly fine and doable. Yes, Columi gear has a slight edge but it isn't significant enough to prevent you clearing the content and we've run groups with 3 in BM (or worse) with no difficulties. As most PVPers will have at least a couple of bits of War Hero alongside their Battlemaster those pieces balance out the difference (especially if augmented.) PVP gear is perfectly fine for HM EV/KP as long as you know how to play the class and not to stand in stupid things.

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Because Explosive Conflict is, relative to the other Storymode Operations, insanely difficult and intentionally so. I'd actually say it is harder than Nightmare KP/EV. It really is something that Pugging is a recipe for disaster with. If you have 4 people in a guild and you get 4 randoms from the fleet to finish the group and everyone has voice then it is doable but a pure LFG group? No. No chance.

 

As for doing HM EV/KP in Battlemaster - it's perfectly fine and doable. Yes, Columi gear has a slight edge but it isn't significant enough to prevent you clearing the content and we've run groups with 3 in BM (or worse) with no difficulties. As most PVPers will have at least a couple of bits of War Hero alongside their Battlemaster those pieces balance out the difference (especially if augmented.) PVP gear is perfectly fine for HM EV/KP as long as you know how to play the class and not to stand in stupid things.

 

I know that it's harder, that's why I suggested to put in an easier version of it.

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I know that it's harder, that's why I suggested to put in an easier version of it.

I disagree with this strongly.

 

Difficult content should only be doable by skilled players in good coordination with one another.

 

Remember that there are very good players who are in guilds and work together and can complete HM Ops.

 

Having difficult content that you can't pug encourages you to get a group of like-minded people.

 

Note: This opinion coming from someone who only started TOR for the single-player content until he found out how fun it was to get a guild and do end-game content with them.

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I disagree with this strongly.

 

Difficult content should only be doable by skilled players in good coordination with one another.

.

 

That wouldn't change at all. You just have one more difficulty available. If you don't want to do it on an easy setting, do it on hard. Nobody is taking that away from you.

 

 

Having difficult content that you can't pug encourages you to get a group of like-minded people.

 

It didn't. It just gave me one less operation to do and a reason to not continue my subscription. It's not just about finding a group, it's also about getting gear to get there. I'm playing MMOs for 4 years now, mainly SWTOR, LOTRO and WOW - and no, it doesn't encourage me to find a group. It's frustrating to find a group, if it takes hours and doesn't even work in the end, because there's that one tank missing, and the group slowly breaks apart because of it. In every MMO I've played in the last 4 years, I have done this dozens of times, and at one point I've had enough.

 

It's ok if you like to do that. I don't mind. But this is no reason to not introduce an easier version for the group finder, so that people, who don't want to possibly search for hours for a group, can still do it. That's the whole purpose of a group finder. To exclude just one raid doesn't make any sense. Especially the current tier should be available.

 

I like this game, but hours of waiting are not fun.

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I don't get why they don't put in Explosive Conflict in the group finder. How about a gear check? Or put in a group finder version of the operation.

 

It's not gear that's the main problem, I've seen well geared players in SM not knowing their roles especially tanks not kitting bosses correctly (i.e. for fabricator in KP) and even seen some people doing stupid things like running into the lava pit full of dogs in EV just before gharg and when revived running on straight to gharg without waiting for people to ready up without knowing tactics.

 

I think for group finder there needs to be some sort of skill scoring before you progress on to each operation, maybe even some sort of training op before you can do the story modes then having to finish all the SM's before progressing on to HM and so on.

 

The problem is (and was probably before GF with pug groups) skill and experience.

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It's not gear that's the main problem, I've seen well geared players in SM not knowing their roles especially tanks not kitting bosses correctly (i.e. for fabricator in KP) and even seen some people doing stupid things like running into the lava pit full of dogs in EV just before gharg and when revived running on straight to gharg without waiting for people to ready up without knowing tactics.

 

I think for group finder there needs to be some sort of skill scoring before you progress on to each operation, maybe even some sort of training op before you can do the story modes then having to finish all the SM's before progressing on to HM and so on.

 

The problem is (and was probably before GF with pug groups) skill and experience.

 

If the problem is skill and experience, then they are only going to get that by doing that operation. Making it hard for them to get into that operation will only work against that. Something like a skill score is impossible. How would you increase that? By successfully beating bosses? First of all that doesn't tell anyone if you're really a good player or even if you understand the mechanics of that boss. Second of all, how can you increase that score, if you need it to be at a certain level to enter the operation.

 

It's like it was in WoW with gear and achievement requirements. If somebody wanted you to have gear, that you could only get in that raid, or the achievement for completing the raid, it was hard for new players to even get that, because the groups that you needed to get into to get them required that you would already have them.

 

WoWs raid finder sets a pretty good example of how they can teach you how the bosses work. It's very intuitive and it works as a training ground to teach you the basics. That only works in WoW because the difficulty is a bit lower and you can get the right gear for that raid in like a day.

Edited by Nindoriel
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  • 4 months later...

I've been here since open beta, played every flashpoint and hard mode version of them, clocked many hours. Though my guild isn't huge so it's nearly impossible to get groups for ops; so I normally pug everything. Majority of the time I happen to find an LFM for OPS, or get answered by my LFGs. it's a guild group, that will boot you out of the group for absolutely no good reasons. Such as a guild member of theirs just logged on, and they want them, even though the spot was filled. (this happens a lot)

 

I find that pugs are 100% better than guild groups because of this. Majority of pugs I'm in can handle the content fine, including ops; hard mode included.

 

So my question is....Why must you make it so bloody hard for people to find groups Bioware? It's not remotely funny, your sick little joke you play on us with the group finder. Yes I would agree problems would be caused if the hard mode versions and harder SM ops were on the group finder.....for like the first or second week. The people would improve, and work better together.

 

But no.....

 

You idea is to blacklist all medium / small guilds that are unable to get the numbers from the content, so as you can maintain what? Oh yeah there isn't anything to maintain. Allowing pugs would only benefit the pug players. BUT WAIT! Repair costs could annoy players, since it would typically be more than a guild run. Who cares? If they're willing to pug they're willing for the repairs. So why blacklist us from content we're paying $15 a month for?

 

It's immature and just rude. If you're afraid of pugs wiping make it a tier system, where you must beat the SM prior to HM. Then onto a harder SM ops, to it's hard mode. etc.

 

There is no reason for us not to be able to queue for more Ops....

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Nobody is blacklisting you from anything. I'm part of a small group too, and I pug with members of the guild or freelance solo. The lack lack of a LFG option for harder ops has never hindered me from answering or starting a search in general, and it shouldn't be stopping you either.

 

The difference between a LFG tool group and what we have now is that there is at least some organization this way. People know what to expect, and have a general idea of what the group can handle. A few players are undergeared? No problem if there are a few on the opposite end of the spectrum. A couple players haven't been there before, or have only gotten past the first boss? Again no problem. If only one guy knows the fights however, it doesn't matter how well geared you all are, you're probably in for a long night.

 

That said, a game wide chat would probably help along the LFG process.

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Screw TFB and EC. I get it, there are a lot of geared players now, players who didn't quit around 1.1 like I did and grinded themself all the best gear. Well, good for them.

But put KP and EV HM in Group finder. It is very boring to sit at Fleet and repeat the same LFG message over and over again without results, because everyone wants only TFB\EC weekly quest.

Edited by Gelious
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It's not gear that's the main problem, I've seen well geared players in SM not knowing their roles especially tanks not kitting bosses correctly (i.e. for fabricator in KP) and even seen some people doing stupid things like running into the lava pit full of dogs in EV just before gharg and when revived running on straight to gharg without waiting for people to ready up without knowing tactics.

 

I think for group finder there needs to be some sort of skill scoring before you progress on to each operation, maybe even some sort of training op before you can do the story modes then having to finish all the SM's before progressing on to HM and so on.

 

The problem is (and was probably before GF with pug groups) skill and experience.

 

If the problem is skill and experience, then they are only going to get that by doing that operation. Making it hard for them to get into that operation will only work against that. Something like a skill score is impossible. How would you increase that? By successfully beating bosses? First of all that doesn't tell anyone if you're really a good player or even if you understand the mechanics of that boss. Second of all, how can you increase that score, if you need it to be at a certain level to enter the operation.

 

It's like it was in WoW with gear and achievement requirements. If somebody wanted you to have gear, that you could only get in that raid, or the achievement for completing the raid, it was hard for new players to even get that, because the groups that you needed to get into to get them required that you would already have them.

 

WoWs raid finder sets a pretty good example of how they can teach you how the bosses work. It's very intuitive and it works as a training ground to teach you the basics. That only works in WoW because the difficulty is a bit lower and you can get the right gear for that raid in like a day.

 

Sorry for late reply (which my post is quoted above), but the problem I see with group finder groups rather than premade PuG's or guild runs is not just lack of understanding of "specific" mechanics but generally the awareness of how endgame content works. For example for the fresh 50 the only Pve content they've done up to that point bar fetch quests are the class missions and normal flashpoints which are too forgiving on mechanics to the point where someone can agro mobs, stand in circles, not interrupt, faceroll their abilities etc.. and still get through it all.

 

They then get to endgame and have a huge slap in the face, because what they were doing the last 50 levels was the wrong way to go about it and they now have to be careful, however for the experienced and geared player who knows how things work they shouldn't be limited in what content they can choose to do because some 50 is still learning the robes.

 

What needs to happen is sorting the riff from the raff, ideally by giving everyone who chooses to do content by group finder a quest or task. For example the simplest way would be to give everyone a quest via GF to complete all HM flashpoints and both SM ops at least 3 times to unlock the next tier of content and maybe even get a nice comms box as a reward for doing it. If anyone can do that they should be geared enough as well as competent enough of raid awareness and how mechanics in "general" work to progress on to the next tier of ops. Anyone who can't is simply not ready.

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Yeah, as of right now there are no options for HM Ops. The reason for that is most likely because there is no "gear check" for the group finder at the moment, and you don't want some new 50 in you're group with crap gear for a HM Ops. Things would go really wrong, really quick.

 

Well, there are plenty of undergeared 50's joining in HM FP's right now, so I know what you are saying completely.

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