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Lost Island HM should have better loot.


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Ok but leaving the FP early is also their choice, whether through frustration or lack of more time. I mean it's not Bioware's fault if you guys decide you don't want to have more tries on bosses anymore, it's not Bioware's fault that the bosses wiped the floor with you. This is like demanding the Dread Guard Headpiece drop from Colonel Vorgath, the boss before him. All bosses reward differently -- to be entitled to that loot you need to be killing the bosses.

 

So you mentioned TFB, does TFB HM only drop level 63 gear from the last boss TFB ? Why every boss drops level 63 gear rather than campaign or rakata? Because it's to match the difficulty and let people be able to upgrade. Tier 1HM is the same thing, previous bosses drop columi earpieces/implants, relics and Exotech, why can't LI do the same and drop rakata earpieces/implants?

 

The boss' difficultly should match its drop, and give upgrade to the majority who can do it.

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SM is to let people know the story and prepare for HM, HM/NiM is purely to take challenge for gear.

 

Tier 1 HM=Columi+relics+Exotech

EV/KP HM=Rakata/relics

EC HM=Campaign

TFB HM=Dreadguard

 

Why only LI makes exception, the drop before final boss don't give upgrade to the majority who can do it?

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I would like to focus on the fact that the drop matches the bosses severity, Dr Lorrick is one of the harder bosses in the entire flashpoint system, he is complex both on a mechanic level and on a pure damage in + damage out level. However the other two bosses in the flashpoint don't match that in any way, the first droid don't do any heavy load of damage, the only problem with him is the mechanics, and on the second boss you only have to deal with a great deal of unavoidable damage, however few problematic mechanics.

 

I would say that most flashpoint bosses matches the severity level of Story Mode EV/KP, however I wouldn't say that Dr Lorrick matches Soa in Hardmode as well as Toth and Zorn/Terror from Beyond in Storymode (the other place were chest drops). So, in my opinion the loot from LI is actually very good considering what drops and what else you need to do in order to obtain the same loot.

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I would like to focus on the fact that the drop matches the bosses severity, Dr Lorrick is one of the harder bosses in the entire flashpoint system, he is complex both on a mechanic level and on a pure damage in + damage out level. However the other two bosses in the flashpoint don't match that in any way, the first droid don't do any heavy load of damage, the only problem with him is the mechanics, and on the second boss you only have to deal with a great deal of unavoidable damage, however few problematic mechanics.

 

I would say that most flashpoint bosses matches the severity level of Story Mode EV/KP, however I wouldn't say that Dr Lorrick matches Soa in Hardmode as well as Toth and Zorn/Terror from Beyond in Storymode (the other place were chest drops). So, in my opinion the loot from LI is actually very good considering what drops and what else you need to do in order to obtain the same loot.

 

LR-5 is mostly about the whole team handle things well, sure he does not do huge damage unless you don't interrupt his fireaoe but there are a lot of sources which could cause damage, if there are melee DPS it could get more difficult. It's no doubt harder than all of the Tier 1 HM and around the same level as Sav-Rak/Lorrick.

 

Sav Rak is not just about avoid damage, it has a very tight enrage timer at least since 1.5. Even Columi could get him to enrage sometimes, the gear requirement is even higher than Lorrick.

 

Overall, the 3 bosses are around the same level, just different mechanics and challenges.

Edited by Slowpokeking
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I am afraid I have to disagree with you there, if you look on the damage output from Lorrick and compare it to LR-5 the difference is significant. However I agree with you that the fight CAN contain loads of damage, however that is only if the group handles the mechanics incorrect. Standing in fire/lava and/or lightning is easily avoided and yes, having two melee DPS instead of two range makes it a bit harder, however not that much more complex. In the case of three range and one melee tank, tank hardly ever have to move and for him it becomes a standstill-tank-spank fight. However if there is two or one melee he has to move the boss to avoid standing in lightning pillars, not that much of a problem TBH. I think that you are correct that the mechanics is much harder then any other fight in another flashpoint.

 

Sav Rak is almost all about avoiding huge damage spikes, like getting pushbacked into the lava, messing up the fire on pillars so he contines spreading out his hard hitting poision on all players. The enrage might be thight, never had any problems with it on any of my chars, and then I have done the entire then in full Tionese (entire group was in full tionese) so I guess that part is more about personal skill then a short enrage timer.

 

The three bosses are not that far away from eachother in severity, however Dr Lorrick is significantly harder then the other two and also rewards very good loot, the rakata chest.

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I am afraid I have to disagree with you there, if you look on the damage output from Lorrick and compare it to LR-5 the difference is significant. However I agree with you that the fight CAN contain loads of damage, however that is only if the group handles the mechanics incorrect. Standing in fire/lava and/or lightning is easily avoided and yes, having two melee DPS instead of two range makes it a bit harder, however not that much more complex. In the case of three range and one melee tank, tank hardly ever have to move and for him it becomes a standstill-tank-spank fight. However if there is two or one melee he has to move the boss to avoid standing in lightning pillars, not that much of a problem TBH. I think that you are correct that the mechanics is much harder then any other fight in another flashpoint.

 

All of Lorrick's high damage abilities are avoidable in phase 1 and 2, phase 3 is a DPS race but all you have to do is stack on the wall and DPS him down, but LR-5 require a lot of movement and take on the adds. The difficulty of Lorrick is mostly DPS and tank position him right.

 

Sav Rak is almost all about avoiding huge damage spikes, like getting pushbacked into the lava, messing up the fire on pillars so he contines spreading out his hard hitting poision on all players. The enrage might be thight, never had any problems with it on any of my chars, and then I have done the entire then in full Tionese (entire group was in full tionese) so I guess that part is more about personal skill then a short enrage timer.

 

Same thing for Lorrick, his tricks and circles are all avoidable.

At least since 1.5 its enrage timer is very tight, tionese really has to beat the **** out of it to catch up. The DPS requirement is as high as Lorrick.

 

The three bosses are not that far away from eachother in severity, however Dr Lorrick is significantly harder then the other two and also rewards very good loot, the rakata chest.

 

Not at all, Lorrick is a challenge to DPS that's all, and it's not higher than Sav Rak. Other than that it's just the tank position him right.

Edited by Slowpokeking
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Dreaming. Comps ain't gonna survive the droid's area damage and have zero chance against Savrak.

 

Apologies for not reading all 34 pages, in case this has already been posted.

 

The sentinel's gear is Rakata/BH, campaign MH, Columi OH.

The sage's gear is BH/campaign, Rakata MH, BH OH.

Companions are a mix of level 50 blues, BH, and everything in between.

 

(Edit) It should be stated that we're not awesome players. As is plainly seen in the video, there are sloppy mistakes happening (mostly the sentinel :p). We've barely cleared HM EC, and have just started to attempt HM TFB. We are NOT high end raiders, by any means. We were simply looking for a challenge, as there's no small group content that offers any sort of sporting challenge outside of HM LI.

 

We're going to try 3 manning LI HM in nothing higher than Tionese next =D. When (if?) we're successful, I hope the whole "nerf HM LI!" argument is put to rest, since if an experienced group can do it with 3 people, you'd think that a group with less experience, but 33% more manpower (well, ok, the companion still counts as a half man.... I guess) SHOULD be able to complete the same thing.

Edited by Saphra
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@ashlaboga, exactly.

 

I wish people would post like "how can i do better on hm li", or "what do i do to heal through sav-rak spits", or "how do i avoid damage on lorick"

 

this is a much healthier attitude than "hm li is too hard", or "you have to outgear hm li to pass it"

 

what really astounds me are the people that are advising others that "you have to be in rakata/bh to heal hm li" or some other silly claim. if someone is bad at hm li, they're not an expert and should stop trying to give advice.

 

instead ask advice from other people who are good at it.

 

this! ^^^

Edited by Saphra
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Apologies for not reading all 34 pages, in case this has already been posted.

 

The sentinel's gear is Rakata/BH, campaign MH, Columi OH.

The sage's gear is BH/campaign, Rakata MH, BH OH.

Companions are a mix of level 50 blues, BH, and everything in between.

 

(Edit) It should be stated that we're not awesome players. As is plainly seen in the video, there are sloppy mistakes happening (mostly the sentinel :p). We've barely cleared HM EC, and have just started to attempt HM TFB. We are NOT high end raiders, by any means. We were simply looking for a challenge, as there's no small group content that offers any sort of sporting challenge outside of HM LI.

 

We're going to try 3 manning LI HM in nothing higher than Tionese next =D. When (if?) we're successful, I hope the whole "nerf HM LI!" argument is put to rest, since if an experienced group can do it with 3 people, you'd think that a group with less experience, but 33% more manpower (well, ok, the companion still counts as a half man.... I guess) SHOULD be able to complete the same thing.

 

You are still better than 80% (or even more) of them ;)

Thank you for this video ;) My challenge is similar : I'm trying to do some 50 HM FP alone (with a compagnion, of course). Actually, I can clean Taral V HM with a sentinel and False Emperor HM with my Trooper + a few bosses. I should try Esseless now, probably doable.

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LR-5 is mostly about the whole team handle things well, sure he does not do huge damage unless you don't interrupt his fireaoe but there are a lot of sources which could cause damage, if there are melee DPS it could get more difficult. It's no doubt harder than all of the Tier 1 HM and around the same level as Sav-Rak/Lorrick.

 

Sav Rak is not just about avoid damage, it has a very tight enrage timer at least since 1.5. Even Columi could get him to enrage sometimes, the gear requirement is even higher than Lorrick.

 

Overall, the 3 bosses are around the same level, just different mechanics and challenges.

 

If you already admit that the 3 bosses are on the same level, why the hell would someone in their sane mind choose to kill 2 bosses but leave the third alive, and EXPECT the drop of the 3rd boss to drop for them ANYWAY. This is just making no sense whatsoever. And btw in no Tier 1 HM FP will you get 3 Columi pieces and 1 Rakata piece, 1 rare pet, 1 rare speeder. It is a flashpoint that rewards the player quite well for what they do. Let's not ignore the 8 + 5 BH comms we get.

 

Oh, and your calls to nerfing this Flashpoint when it has already been nerfed is ridiculous. If you are struggling with it you better improvise.

Edited by Ephesia
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If you already admit that the 3 bosses are on the same level, why the hell would someone in their sane mind choose to kill 2 bosses but leave the third alive, and EXPECT the drop of the 3rd boss to drop for them ANYWAY. This is just making no sense whatsoever. And btw in no Tier 1 HM FP will you get 3 Columi pieces and 1 Rakata piece, 1 rare pet, 1 rare speeder. It is a flashpoint that rewards the player quite well for what they do. Let's not ignore the 8 + 5 BH comms we get.

 

Oh, and your calls to nerfing this Flashpoint when it has already been nerfed is ridiculous. If you are struggling with it you better improvise.

 

Because the time and repair bill? Not many people can spend many many hours on this and pay tons of repair bill.

 

What makes no sense? Other HM all drop stuff that can give upgrade to most of the people. Why didn' HM EC drops 1 campaign+many Rakata or HM TFB drops 1 dreadguard+ many campaign? LI HM is the only exception.

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Because the time and repair bill? Not many people can spend many many hours on this and pay tons of repair bill.

 

What makes no sense? Other HM all drop stuff that can give upgrade to most of the people. Why didn' HM EC drops 1 campaign+many Rakata or HM TFB drops 1 dreadguard+ many campaign? LI HM is the only exception.

You and I have danced around this several times.

 

The T2 flashpoints are a different class of difficulty than the T1 flashpoints. Just like the T2 operations are in a different class of difficulty than the T1 operations.

 

Tier 2 ramps up the difficulty a lot, but ramps up the rewards a little. This is a Good Thing

 

It gives a reason to become better players. If they can't bring the skill, they can always overgear it. And *surprise* the rewards are therefore LESS.

 

The way things currently stand, T1 stuff is tuned for the less skilled players, and T2 is tuned for the more skilled players. If you are less skilled and trying to do T2 stuff, you overgear it. Everyone wins.

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You and I have danced around this several times.

 

The T2 flashpoints are a different class of difficulty than the T1 flashpoints. Just like the T2 operations are in a different class of difficulty than the T1 operations.

 

Tier 2 ramps up the difficulty a lot, but ramps up the rewards a little. This is a Good Thing

It gives a reason to become better players. If they can't bring the skill, they can always overgear it. And *surprise* the rewards are therefore LESS.

 

The way things currently stand, T1 stuff is tuned for the less skilled players, and T2 is tuned for the more skilled players. If you are less skilled and trying to do T2 stuff, you overgear it. Everyone wins.

 

Exactly. Each Tier will increase the skill requirement until even wearing BiS you won't be able to just go "derp a derp Imma smashing my 1-2-3-4 combo again again, derp! Derp!" Eventually people will either have to accept that they need to get better or will go "this game is impossible" (despite thousands of other people having no issues).

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You and I have danced around this several times.

 

The T2 flashpoints are a different class of difficulty than the T1 flashpoints. Just like the T2 operations are in a different class of difficulty than the T1 operations.

 

So it should have better drop.

 

 

Tier 2 ramps up the difficulty a lot, but ramps up the rewards a little. This is a Good Thing

Why? You should deserve the work and skill you put on the game. Will you accept it if your boss let you work a lot and pay you little?

 

It gives a reason to become better players. If they can't bring the skill, they can always overgear it. And *surprise* the rewards are therefore LESS.

 

What reason? LI gives nothing BiS, if the drop does not match its difficulty, then less people will do it. Most of the people will overgear it. It's a game, it's pointless to spend a lot of effort for nothing, that's why Tier 1, EV/KP, EC and TFB HM all offer upgrade rather than let people "become better". That's a lame excuse.

 

The way things currently stand, T1 stuff is tuned for the less skilled players, and T2 is tuned for the more skilled players. If you are less skilled and trying to do T2 stuff, you overgear it. Everyone wins.

No, only LI HM is the exception.

Edited by Slowpokeking
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Exactly. Each Tier will increase the skill requirement until even wearing BiS you won't be able to just go "derp a derp Imma smashing my 1-2-3-4 combo again again, derp! Derp!" Eventually people will either have to accept that they need to get better or will go "this game is impossible" (despite thousands of other people having no issues).

 

And why didn't they increase the reward at the same time, just like all the other HM?

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And why didn't they increase the reward at the same time, just like all the other HM?

 

I fail to see how having 2 Columi armor pieces, a Columi weapon, and a Rakata chest drop from one flashpoint isn't a marked upgrade from every other flashpoint. Every other flashpoint drops 2 or 3 Tionese pieces and a single Columi at the end, with MAYBE a Columi earpiece, implant (BoE, and usually reasonably priced on the GTN) or belt, all of which are minor gear pieces when compared with armor and weapons.

 

This may be incorrect, but I'm getting the impression that you don't do many ops either, or at least none that are punishing to people who don't obey mechanics. Do you find that they aren't worth the reward either?

 

I'm hearing "ERMAHGERD! It's sooooo hard! It should drop Campaign gearz!". But, hey... it's after 5 AM... sometimes my hearing is off when it gets to be this late.

 

(Edit) Also, if your argument is that people aren't doing the flashpoint, you're sorely mistaken. Every time I queue as tank or healer, I get a queue in less than a minute. Sometimes it's an experienced group, sometimes it's not. I've had little trouble with inexperienced groups that can listen to these simple instructions (Well, maybe Lorrick is a little more complex)

 

Boss 1: Ranged and healer, stick together and move out of stuff together around the outside of the room, interrupt incinerate, cleanse incinerate. Ignore adds.

Melee note: If there's melee in the group, the whole group may wish to stick together, (dps and healer BEHIND the boss) and the tank will move the boss along the outside of the room.

Plasma arc note: plasma arc can be largely ignored, but interrupting it is good, as long as you're sure you'll have an interrupt ready for incinerate.

 

Boss 2: Don't stand directly in front of him if you're not the tank. When he starts pounding his chest and casting Sav-Rak Smash, get friendly with what's under his loincloth. When he jumps up on a pipe, tank and dps hit your pre-assigned button, healer - stand in the middle and heal. Rinse and repeat until looting time.

 

Boss 3: Phase 1: Move out of stuff, fast. Help interrupt flurry of bolts. Keep your distance and/or stay behind him for "tricks up his sleeve", unless you're the tank, in which case, dodge the fans of satchel charges if you love your healer. When he disappears, dps the kolto tanks hard, and if the kolto tank doesn't get finished off, no worries, just finish off the add, then return to doing the boss thing. When you get past phase 1, life gets easier for everyone.

Phase 2 is cake. Dps him down, interrupt ravage, and move away from rakghouls. On top of being stunnable and puntable, they're slow.

Phase 3: Dps/Healing race. Try to put yourself between him and a wall to minimize knockback.

 

You may keep this and copy/paste it when you're in a PUG that needs guidance. These are roughly the same basic instructions that i give to every new person or group that I've done HM LI with, many of which have (unwisely) skipped SM LI.

 

It's worth 8 + 5 BH comms. Most players that i know do HM LI at least once a week for that, and some, like myself, do it more than once a week, due to alts and friends/guildies.

 

(It is now well after 6 AM, I may re-read the instructions tomorrow and fix the many probable mistakes)

Edited by Saphra
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Because the time and repair bill? Not many people can spend many many hours on this and pay tons of repair bill.

 

What makes no sense? Other HM all drop stuff that can give upgrade to most of the people. Why didn' HM EC drops 1 campaign+many Rakata or HM TFB drops 1 dreadguard+ many campaign? LI HM is the only exception.

 

Holu hell, you don't want to understand that this FP is made to be done in Tionese (someone did it in a 2-man group ...). You don't even understand that Lorrick drops the Rakata chest and the Columi MH (check who drops them ....).

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Because the time and repair bill? Not many people can spend many many hours on this and pay tons of repair bill.

 

What makes no sense? Other HM all drop stuff that can give upgrade to most of the people. Why didn' HM EC drops 1 campaign+many Rakata or HM TFB drops 1 dreadguard+ many campaign? LI HM is the only exception.

 

Rule number 1 in any game is that if you cannot accomplish the objectives - you do not get loot. The fact that this pseudo "many people" of yours is spending hours on this flashpoint and paying tons of repair bill clearly makes it visible that they are not geared or skilled enough for this flashpoint. There is nothing Bioware can do if you don't L2P.

 

Also it's completely asinine how you don't see a Rakata chest and a Columi Main Hand as upgrade. Columi Main Hand is the absolute hardest to obtain Columi gear in the game, I have explained you this before yet you conviniently ignore facts and just continue ranting. And Rakata chestpiece is also the 2nd hardest Rakata gear to obtain. These rewards are VERY GOOD for a flashpoing that is REPEATABLE. You are given WEEKLY OPS loot in a content that can be repeatable. Continue ignoring these undisputable facts. Go on. Ignore them some more, continue ranting. Fact is all of your points have been debunked, questions answered, facts corrected time after time again in this thread by multiple people. At this point if you choose to dig your head into the sand and pretend the world is a dark place, there is nothing ANY OF US can do.

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So it should have better drop.

One day we'll find a new topic to debate and it will be refreshing.

 

Why? You should deserve the work and skill you put on the game. Will you accept it if your boss let you work a lot and pay you little?

Actually, yes. Let's stay within your analogy for a bit. I'm a salaried computer programmer irl. This means I don't get paid for overtime. I can be skilled player and defeat (complete) operations (project) and get good loot (bonuses for on-time delivery) or I can be a less skilled player and overgear (work overtime) the instance.

 

What reason? LI gives nothing BiS, if the drop does not match its difficulty, then less people will do it. Most of the people will overgear it. It's a game, it's pointless to spend a lot of effort for nothing, that's why Tier 1, EV/KP, EC and TFB HM all offer upgrade rather than let people "become better". That's a lame excuse.

 

No, only LI HM is the exception.

This part of the argument is one I'm a little tired of, because we keep saying the same things back and forth and it doesn't change.

 

1. I say that SM EC and SM TfB don't give good loot either (compared to their difficulty), because they're Tier 2 operations.

2. Then you say that SM EC and SM TfB don't need to give good loot because they're practice for HM.

3. Then I say that HM LI is good practice for T2 ops.

4. Then you ignore that point.

5. Then I say that Hard Mode EC for first-timers (and who aren't being carried by a guild) have crappy drops as well. The first time I went all the way through HM EC on my first level 50 (Commando dps), I won 2 drops of Campaign gear but ended up sending them to alts, because they weren't upgrades over my BH.

 

How is this not similar to the situation with HM LI?

 

I wish we could come to an accord on this, but it seems we're on opposite ends of a Bloods/Crips fight and "ne'er the twain shall meet"

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I don't see any Tionese tanks surviving the last fight with Lokin too well (tank is gonna eat some satchels), so I don't agree the mission is designed for that level of gear. This mission is listed as a Hard level 2, so theoretically everybody will be in full Columi before they walk in. If the mobs dropped Rakata-level amoring, mods, and enhancements the loot would be better balanced.

 

I've healed a tank with 14 k health through this, tioness is fine and everyone gets it for free now.

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I fail to see how having 2 Columi armor pieces, a Columi weapon, and a Rakata chest drop from one flashpoint isn't a marked upgrade from every other flashpoint. Every other flashpoint drops 2 or 3 Tionese pieces and a single Columi at the end, with MAYBE a Columi earpiece, implant (BoE, and usually reasonably priced on the GTN) or belt, all of which are minor gear pieces when compared with armor and weapons.

 

This may be incorrect, but I'm getting the impression that you don't do many ops either, or at least none that are punishing to people who don't obey mechanics. Do you find that they aren't worth the reward either?

 

I'm hearing "ERMAHGERD! It's sooooo hard! It should drop Campaign gearz!". But, hey... it's after 5 AM... sometimes my hearing is off when it gets to be this late.

This FP is made for Columi groups, most of the people so it should drop upgrade to them.

Tier 1 HM drops columi in the end, previous bosses drop tionese or

1. relic

2. columi implants/earpieces

3. columi belt/bracer

4. Exotech pieces

These are all upgrade to tionese players. But does Sav Rak and LR-5 drop anything like this to give Columi players upgrade? No, and their difficulty is higher than any Tier 1 HM boss, why shouldn't they drop rakata implants/earpieces or belt/bracer or high level relics?.

 

 

You may keep this and copy/paste it when you're in a PUG that needs guidance. These are roughly the same basic instructions that i give to every new person or group that I've done HM LI with, many of which have (unwisely) skipped SM LI.

 

It's very simple, most of the people need columi to beat the bosses, of course they should drop upgrade to them. The difficulty should match its drop, simple and easy.

 

It's worth 8 + 5 BH comms. Most players that i know do HM LI at least once a week for that, and some, like myself, do it more than once a week, due to alts and friends/guildies.

 

No, the 8 is weekly and many of them do it with rakata or higher gear.

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