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Celebrity deathmatch : Vaylin vs. Revan !

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Celebrity deathmatch : Vaylin vs. Revan !

bluehufsa's Avatar


bluehufsa
03.16.2018 , 05:06 PM | #1
Remember that FP on Imp side? You actually needed 4 people or 3 ppl + 1 companion to kick Revan's a**. Second time, in SoR, you need Marr, Satele, Lana,Theron,Shae, yourself + 1 companion to bring Revan down. Compare this to fighting Vaylin on Odessen, where you and a companion managed to defeat her.
So, in a match between them, who would win?
"Rainbow Demon - pick up your heart and run

Rainbow Demon - lives for his sword and his gun"

gamephil's Avatar


gamephil
03.16.2018 , 06:20 PM | #2
Based on how powerful we're told they are? Vaylin. Based on how powerful they're shown to be? Revan.

ethanredmace's Avatar


ethanredmace
03.16.2018 , 09:42 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by bluehufsa View Post
Remember that FP on Imp side? You actually needed 4 people or 3 ppl + 1 companion to kick Revan's a**. Second time, in SoR, you need Marr, Satele, Lana,Theron,Shae, yourself + 1 companion to bring Revan down. Compare this to fighting Vaylin on Odessen, where you and a companion managed to defeat her.
So, in a match between them, who would win?
SPOILERS LONG,


Most of Vaylin's power had been caged away for the majority of her life. She barely had any chance to harness it and neither train it, based on the pace of the story. This is also due to her impulsive, superiority complex nature. The PC was able to defeat her on Odessen by being empowered by Valkorion's spirit inside of them, the training used against Arcann (if it is still relevant here), and the fact she wasn't at her full height of her potentional. She rushed onto Odessen and invaded without proper planning just to end her father, her mother, her brother (if you went light side on that) and she believed she was practically invincible. She failed. Being not at the full height of her potentional along with the other previous reasons, explain why is why Vaylin was easier to beat than Revan, besides when it comes to game mechanics.
On the other hand, Revan had more experience in the force and in battle, even Revan Reborn (though he had been split and that would mean you are not as strong as you were before.) If the PC had been infused with Valkorion's spirit then at that point, he would have been able to crush Revan. If you didn't have his spirit, Vaylin would more than likely have been able to defeat the PC unless they brought a powerful force group of friends (that'd be a stretch depending on who they were.)
We don't know the full down-pour of most of Vaylin's power being locked away, but she was still incredibly powerful and a lot of power was returning to her during the first few chapters of KOFTE. However, she didn't wield her power responsibly and while it may be affective at one point, in the long run it would be rash and it would be terrible because she wouldn't be able to use it to the best of her ability. She would also be using it for evil and not good.
Thus because of this, Revan would be able to defeat Vaylin, for now. This is unless she explored more of her powers trained them, and learned more techniques. Her evil would be another reason why she would fail in the long run.

Make up your mind for yourself on this. I hope this was insightful to look into. I'd suggest looking up Wookiepedia, SWTOR Wiki articles, and forum posts on both Vaylin & Revan to help you make your choice and decision on who would win and who is more impressive Also, I'd suggest reading the Revan novel if you want some extra reading but if you want it more in a real book form. Thank you. I'm glad I could help.

bluehufsa's Avatar


bluehufsa
03.17.2018 , 05:06 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by gamephil View Post
Based on how powerful we're told they are? Vaylin. Based on how powerful they're shown to be? Revan.
That's exactly what i thought too
"Rainbow Demon - pick up your heart and run

Rainbow Demon - lives for his sword and his gun"

Paulsutherland's Avatar


Paulsutherland
03.17.2018 , 05:08 AM | #5
(Biased)

Vaylin - I'll be her companion fighting Revan

Then again ... thinking about it ... both were tortured by the Emperor, I wouldn't be surprised if these two ended up forming their own alliance of sorts.

fovzwk's Avatar


fovzwk
03.17.2018 , 06:50 AM | #6
Really hard to say. One the one hand Vaylin at her prime (after removing the conditioning) is leagues above Revan in power ( keep in mind that the Sith emperor himself deemed it a good idea to limit her power while he was perfectly content to jut leave Revan at full power running around and even use him in his schemes). But she is also way more unhinged and crazy than Revan was even at his worst and her strategic thinking is severly lacking at times. So Revan might actually come out on top due to being able to use his own lesser power much more efficient than her.

gamephil's Avatar


gamephil
03.17.2018 , 08:12 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by fovzwk View Post
Really hard to say. One the one hand Vaylin at her prime (after removing the conditioning) is leagues above Revan in power
Warning: This is one of a plethora of things that annoy me with Vaylin's story. I will try to reign it in.

I don't know if I can agree. I completely agree that it should have been true. It would make the whole thing less, we'll say for now, odd. But their displays of power are roughly equivalent, and Revan actually pinned multiple powerful Force users and several others in place while Vaylin couldn't do the same for three, but just knocked two of them down. Yes, we're shown her murdering multiple Knights at once and had some nameless person say, "I've never seen such power", but she never actually displays anything during the fight that Revan didn't do something of similar power to, so I have to consider that telling, not showing. The bubbling up and cracking the wall was a neat trick, but this ultimate display of power was only during a cutscene, and, even then, the Outlander just walks up and impales or shoots her, and it appears the implication is that this is done without Valkorion's help (I like to think it was with his help, and in fact with him controlling the Outlander, it makes more sense, but I saw nothing to say that). The only reason I ever had trouble beating her in that scene was because there was a cliff nearby to be blown off, and it's never taken as long as Revan.

TL;DR version: Vaylin's ultimate displays of power were in cutscenes, and even then didn't appear to really be any more than Revan displayed during the actual fight.

That's what I mean when I say "what we were told" vs. "what we were shown": Revan, by himself, held off the finest of the Republic and Empire, Vaylin with a small horde of Knights fell to three. She was never really shown to be powerful except in cut-scenes, lost every time she was put up against anyone of importance unless they were pre-defeated (juxtaposed with Arcann impaling you if you don't ask Dad for help), and while she might be clever at times, ultimately failed because she fell for, "I double dog dare you to come down here" rather than just bombing them all out of existence. That we are in full agreement on, her instability and lack of experience make her vulnerable. I just don't know that she was ever shown to be more powerful in any meaningful way.

fovzwk's Avatar


fovzwk
03.17.2018 , 10:42 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by gamephil View Post
TL;DR version: Vaylin's ultimate displays of power were in cutscenes, and even then didn't appear to really be any more than Revan displayed during the actual fight.
Thats not how it works. As a rule of thumb cutscenes usually portray what actually happens storywise and not the gameplay. Unless you want to believe that your character actually gets hit into the face with missiles every other fight and their companion just constantly throws healing- force/bacta at them to miracolously keep them without a scratch.

And we are clearly shown and told in cutscenes, dialogue with characters and background media that Vaylin is far more powerful then Revan. In the betrayed trailer she accidentially crushes multiple knights at once to death. She also kills multiple knights + almost her entire bridge crew at once in KotET. Then proceeds to blow up the facility on Nathema with the froce from her flagship in space no less. And as you mentioned she actually manages to make sturdy walls crack with her sheer force power.
Revan never shows a feat like any of these in comparison unless you count that minigame during his Solo fight in SOR where he makes all the NPCs twirl around in the air and you have to collect foce bubbles. But that is more likely just a game mechanic that forces to player to do something during this fight instead of just waiting til the NPCs finish Revan off on their own.

gamephil's Avatar


gamephil
03.17.2018 , 11:06 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by fovzwk View Post
Thats not how it works. As a rule of thumb cutscenes usually portray what actually happens storywise and not the gameplay. Unless you want to believe that your character actually gets hit into the face with missiles every other fight and their companion just constantly throws healing- force/bacta at them to miracolously keep them without a scratch.
I can't agree, I think that's exactly how it works: if she can't use those powers when it's actually relevant, it's just telling, not showing. That was the entirety of what I was saying: they told us she was powerful, they showed us he was. I think that's relevant, since what they told us can be lies and unreliable narration.

The cut scenes help a bit, but even with them: she grabs several minor characters and kills them, bubbles up and knocks some people around and cracks a wall. In Revan's final fight, he grabs several people, the best of the best, and renders them helpless, and displays powers that appear to me to be the equivalent of both the bubble and the wind. And, before that final display of her power, we had already beaten her troops and driven her to her hands and knees, moaning in pain. The main evidence of her being this unsurpassed powerhouse is Valkorion's word, and he lies, and some comments from others, including Lana, that I'm not sure we should believe, either..

I want her to be that powerful. It makes the whole thing better. I just have trouble seeing her that way because of the set up. I did like her walking through the time stop, though. Good times. I kind of think the idea was that her power was still growing since freeing herself, and then it was over.

I do appreciate that you referred to the arena as "accidentally", regardless of this mostly trivial disagreement, though.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
03.17.2018 , 11:35 AM | #10
She's supposed to be that powerful. We can never trust game mechanics, unless it's a matter of non force using characters trying to justify they're so powerful compared to force using ones
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry