Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

This is a joke


KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
06.26.2019 , 12:07 AM | #11
As someone who despises ranked with something of a passion, the actual cheating is merely the tip of the iceberg.

The arrogance, horrible attitudes, low population, and simple fact that playing the queue and/or randomness are as big variables as skill in determining ratings are all contributing factors too.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
06.26.2019 , 06:22 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
As someone who despises ranked with something of a passion, the actual cheating is merely the tip of the iceberg.

The arrogance, horrible attitudes, low population, and simple fact that playing the queue and/or randomness are as big variables as skill in determining ratings are all contributing factors too.
played in the yolo queue on SF last night from 7-9:30. pops were faster than reg queue.

watched two streams (devil & deanlo) playing on SF as late as 2am.

Get out of here with the dead queue bs.

I watched deanlo hop on 3 different toons and run up an initial score of close to 1500. the same players in the queue. different players on teams each match, many of whom I played against hours earlier. they weren't throwing or cheating for him (I don't know the guy in the least other than he's good and streams). my point is that it's perfectly possible to be good at what you do and succeed in yolo. it's also incredibly frustrating because the matchmaking is such that wins and losses are usually the result of your weakest link. that's literally the case of every format ever. if you choose to solo queue, you need to accept that fact. it's like contracting to go on a fishing expedition and then getting upset when your hands smell from the bait or taking a fish off the hook. that's part of the deal.
Krack

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
06.26.2019 , 06:51 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
played in the yolo queue on SF last night from 7-9:30. pops were faster than reg queue.

watched two streams (devil & deanlo) playing on SF as late as 2am.

Get out of here with the dead queue bs.

I watched deanlo hop on 3 different toons and run up an initial score of close to 1500. the same players in the queue. different players on teams each match, many of whom I played against hours earlier. they weren't throwing or cheating for him (I don't know the guy in the least other than he's good and streams). my point is that it's perfectly possible to be good at what you do and succeed in yolo. it's also incredibly frustrating because the matchmaking is such that wins and losses are usually the result of your weakest link. that's literally the case of every format ever. if you choose to solo queue, you need to accept that fact. it's like contracting to go on a fishing expedition and then getting upset when your hands smell from the bait or taking a fish off the hook. that's part of the deal.
I never said it wasnt possible to be good and get good rating. There are just ways of not cheating, being mediocre, and getting good rating too, making it all rather meaningless. Naturally, it's entirely possible to do good because you are good; my complaints are about all ranked, not merely solo ranked.

You really can't deny the fact that the population who chooses to play ranked in general, and granked in particular, does affect the quality of matches. You say yourself it was the same players in the queue being reshuffled around; extend that argument to explain some of peoples frustrations.

I.e. if there arent 8 people of similar skill, you have to put good and bad players on or against the same team as average ones, and how do you balance this? Someone has to be hamstrung with the sorc running a tank stim or that mara with one lightsaber, or the that sniper that doesnt know what cover is. And there is a limit to how much anyone can carry, no matter how good you are.

This was also just one variable in my time attempting ranked I found annoying, I'm only commenting at all because if you all who do enjoy ranked wish for the format to have relevance or gain more players, and thus likely garner more attention, it would help to consider the reasons why those of us who find it annoying and pointless find it that way. Then positive minor changes could be made to attract more people to the format, improving the overall quality of life and increasing the probability of garnering more attention and resources all in one fell swoop.

Maybe if there was a larger population that could support putting 8 similar quality players in a match together, you wouldnt be so "hamstrung by your weakest link". I.e. your top 3 whatever isn't getting on a team with the aforementioned mara with one lightsaber. Because, as you are implying, there is a limit to what can be carried.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
06.26.2019 , 08:38 AM | #14
I cannot speak for every server, but in my limited experience (this season), there are very few players chirping and harassing others. In general, the "bullies" are juggs/guards who are clearly frustrated with getting focused down every match, so when they see a sin or a merc or healer die before them, they go ape. they're still in the wrong, but it's absolutely NOTHING like it used to be before I left (S1-5ish). in fact, it's downright cordial now.

the problem is entirely matchmaking and idiotic choices by BW to incentivize ranked play with valuable mats used as participation rewards. think about this, the worse you are as a player, the less you will be liked/welcome by your random teammates. HOWEVER, because you're not very good, it may take you 50 matches to get that crystal instead of 10-15. so now, the asinine mat quest has created a situation where bad players aren't simply in it for participation, but they're in it LONGER than any other player, thus dragging 50 games to a halt instead of 10-20.

I had at least 5 matches in one night over the weekend in which one team either had only 3 players or one team had a healer/tank but the other did not. that's matchmaking. that's BW. that's not cheating or elo. all BW has to do is port players into the arena AFTER all 8 participants have accepted. that solves 80% of the broken matches involving roles and number of players.

I've seen a few players been accused of throwing in just one night, and guess what? they're just not good. one was a mara. the other was a sin. they don't have mastery over their cds. I think the mara made bad utility choices. but they didn't throw. they were the worst players on every team the played against everyone, and we all ended up on the same teams at one point or another. again, I can't speak for DM or SS, but pissing and moaning about throwers cheating for their friends is drastically overblown. the real problem is about how teams are constructed.

edit: I quoted you, but clearly (as you pointed out) my response was geared toward the thread as a whole.
Krack

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
06.26.2019 , 10:49 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
As someone who despises ranked with something of a passion, the actual cheating is merely the tip of the iceberg.

The arrogance, horrible attitudes, low population, and simple fact that playing the queue and/or randomness are as big variables as skill in determining ratings are all contributing factors too.
No KendraP, clearly ranked is working fine, it's your perception that is skewed not the ranked PVP in SWTOR.

Your failings in ranked are only a reflection of your lack of skill in PVP and have nothing to do with any other elements outside of your control.

You are the creator of your own destiny in ranked PVP and other factors you think other than your own skill never cause you to lose a match, like hardly ever.

I mean it's really rare anyway, like so rare you can queue for 2 whole hours and determine that it really is a flawlessly working score system! You can also watch some Superstar Streamer for a few hours and you'll see how clean and well-behaved players are now, no one is toxic, like ever!

Pretty sure only boyscouts now play ranked btw, will try to confirm or deny said claim though. Just what I been told...

/sarcasm off

Reality is: Ranked sucks, has sucked for years, is toxic, and has enough cheaters involved that the entire contest is compromised by poor player behavior. Either they need to start swinging banhammers harder, or change the scoring system to anything other than what it is now.
The Revival of SWTOR: Petition for More Funding and Resources
(Click link Below For More Information)

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=959696

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
06.27.2019 , 07:55 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
Reality is: Ranked sucks, has sucked for years, is toxic, and has enough cheaters involved that the entire contest is compromised by poor player behavior. Either they need to start swinging banhammers harder, or change the scoring system to anything other than what it is now.
It's amazing that the people that bash ranked the most don't ever play ranked. The way you always describe ranked has never been my experience.

Now, to be clear, I obviously support both much harsher punishments for wintraders/cheaters (and have stated so many times), and I support exploring other scoring systems that might lead to better competition overall.

But it's still irresponsible to pretend that ranked objectively "sucks" and that it's impossible to have fun, competitive matches. I have fun playing solo ranked in swtor almost every single day. The vast majority of matches are fair with no toxicity. That is a fact. Your perception of what ranked is actually like comes almost entirely from your own head, not reality.

VaceDemon's Avatar


VaceDemon
06.27.2019 , 10:53 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
It's amazing that the people that bash ranked the most don't ever play ranked. The way you always describe ranked has never been my experience.

Now, to be clear, I obviously support both much harsher punishments for wintraders/cheaters (and have stated so many times), and I support exploring other scoring systems that might lead to better competition overall.

But it's still irresponsible to pretend that ranked objectively "sucks" and that it's impossible to have fun, competitive matches. I have fun playing solo ranked in swtor almost every single day. The vast majority of matches are fair with no toxicity. That is a fact. Your perception of what ranked is actually like comes almost entirely from your own head, not reality.
To be fair, I think he's saying that it "sucks" not in literal terms, but in the terms that the system is drowned in cheating, wintrading, que manipulation BS, along with the super low population which exacerbates egos and toxicity because almost everyone knows everyone. Though I'll add that toxicity, no matter the size of the population, will always be an issue because that's just the nature of the internet (but that's a different topic entirely).

I love the ranked format and think arenas are fun and I consider myself a hardcore/competitive player, but I agree with his assessment that SWTOR's current ranked environment and format "suck".
Game is memes xd

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
06.27.2019 , 11:46 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by VaceDemon View Post
To be fair, I think he's saying that it "sucks" not in literal terms, but in the terms that the system is drowned in cheating, wintrading, que manipulation BS, along with the super low population which exacerbates egos and toxicity because almost everyone knows everyone. Though I'll add that toxicity, no matter the size of the population, will always be an issue because that's just the nature of the internet (but that's a different topic entirely).

I love the ranked format and think arenas are fun and I consider myself a hardcore/competitive player, but I agree with his assessment that SWTOR's current ranked environment and format "suck".
Wintrading and cheating are serious problems, but let's be precise about their impact. They affect the integrity of the top 3, because most of the top 3 are illegitimate, and so they taint the system as a whole. But the vast, vast majority of ranked games don't have any wintrading or cheating happening in them. Queue manipulation really only applies to tanks or healers at this point due to cross faction. Toxicity is a nonissue in my opinion, and the little real toxicity there is, like you say, is universal to competitive online games.

Pretty much all of ranked's problems boil down to low population. If there were more people playing consistently, the elo system would function better, and therefore the matchmaking system would create fairer matches. Others have suggested that something other than the elo system might be for the best at this point, and I agree that that's worth considering. But as it stands, the elo system in swtor is functioning as best it can as far as I can tell, given the population.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.27.2019 , 04:42 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Toxicity is a nonissue in my opinion, and the little real toxicity there is, like you say, is universal to competitive online games.

Pretty much all of ranked's problems boil down to low population. If there were more people playing consistently, the elo system would function better, and therefore the matchmaking system would create fairer matches. Others have suggested that something other than the elo system might be for the best at this point, and I agree that that's worth considering. But as it stands, the elo system in swtor is functioning as best it can as far as I can tell, given the population.

Yeah, but ask yourself, why is the rank population so low? There are many ex ranked players still in the game. They haven’t left, they just won’t play it any more because of all the reasons you’ve listed.
You also have new players or would be ranked players avoiding or dropping ranked early because of the toxicity. Older players just get sick of the toxicity and also stop playing.
There is competitive banter and sledging, which are fine, and then there is toxicity, which doesn’t help or make anyone feel inclined to play with it. You should not need to have a thick skin or turn off chat just so you can play without harassment.
Nobody was a super star the moment they walked into ranked the first time and I think many people forget that. Regs is now so bad that it’s impossible for most people to hone their skills there before playing ranked.
The problem as I see it is ranked has a bad name and is tainted by all the bad stuff that does or can happen in it. People are wary about trying it if they are still trying to learn the format and tactics. Others who could play just avoid it so they don’t have to put up with the grief.
That is what’s affecting the queue population. Older ranked players leaving it and new ones avoiding it because the population is not welcoming to new blood. And yes, of course the game’s over all population has shrunk, but that is a different issue.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
06.27.2019 , 09:21 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post

But it's still irresponsible to pretend that ranked objectively "sucks" and that it's impossible to have fun, competitive matches. I have fun playing solo ranked in swtor almost every single day. The vast majority of matches are fair with no toxicity. That is a fact. Your perception of what ranked is actually like comes almost entirely from your own head, not reality.
yolo produces far better matches than regs. I understand ppl may hate arenas and therefore consider any arena bad. but the matches themselves are much much closer than your average reg match. and when an arena IS a blowout, it's over quick unlike a WZ where you either farm or get farmed for 10 minutes or everyone quits.

personally, I just don't like the anxiety or butterflies all the time, so I only dip in occasionally.
Krack