The iR 300 Aug requirements will, for the vast majority, push their attainment to the GTN, where credits are monetized by the CC-GTN-Creds money laundering loop.

Massive amounts of real money are about to leak into gearing.

It's not right.

So, are you saying there's something wrong with BW making money? 🤔

I'm saying gearing shouldn't be monetized; pay-to-win schemes break game design and and sabotage quality of life.

I'm sure BW would be more than happy if people went the CC>GTN>Credits>Augment rout.

Given the likely price tag though, I expect many will go for the Credit Seller>Augment rout instead.

The iR 300 Aug requirements will, for the vast majority, push their attainment to the GTN, where credits are monetized by the CC-GTN-Creds money laundering loop.

 

Massive amounts of real money are about to leak into gearing.

 

It's not right.

They haven't show much diligence or competency in managing the economy before, why would you expect different now?

I'm sure BW would be more than happy if people went the CC>GTN>Credits>Augment rout.

 

Given the likely price tag though, I expect many will go for the Credit Seller>Augment rout instead.

Dead-on. EA and BW are empowering credit sellers by giving players a legitimate grievance: subjecting subscribers to P2W systems, and subsequently sabotaging quality of life.

Dead-on. EA and BW are empowering credit sellers by giving players a legitimate grievance: subjecting subscribers to P2W systems, and subsequently sabotaging quality of life.

Not white knighting BW here, or defending their stupid decisions with the augs

BUT, it's not really P2W, especially as a sub. A sub gets enough CC's a month to buy and sell stuff on the gtn, to make enough credits to buy the augs, if they want. They don't have to go outside to credit sellers for that. As for non subs, they'll never be able to buy them anyway, so, no one is really paying to win, with real cash.

I don't agree with the augs, or how they are doing it, etc (but that's already blown up on a different thread). But it's wrong to call it P2W

I don't agree with the augs, or how they are doing it, etc (but that's already blown up on a different thread). But it's wrong to call it P2W

Not least because *someone* has to actually do the gameplay stuff that creates the materials in the first place. P2W would be if the augments themselves were acquirable *only* with CCs.

Not least because *someone* has to actually do the gameplay stuff that creates the materials in the first place. P2W would be if the augments themselves were acquirable *only* with CCs.

Not the definition of P2W. If you can acquire the best items with real money, this is P2W. Where the items come from really doesn't matter.

Not the definition of P2W. If you can acquire the best items with real money, this is P2W. Where the items come from really doesn't matter.

If BW sold the augments in the CM, then yes, I'd agree with that.

However that's now what they're doing.

There's always a middleman, which, technically, makes is NOT P2W

It's an old argument and some people stick with their definitions that are wrong, so no one's going to convince anyone...but that's what it is.

The best example, from this game, that I can give is when the Heroic PVE space missions first came out, the Grade 7 starship components were available, directly, in the cartel market. THAT was P2W. You could also get them by other means, but that direct sale.....P2W

They stopped it pretty quickly.

I'm sure BW would be more than happy if people went the CC>GTN>Credits>Augment rout.

 

Given the likely price tag though, I expect many will go for the Credit Seller>Augment rout instead.

And BioWare knows this too, so they're happy to implement things that drive people to credit sellers and pay lip service on the other hand about how bad they think these credit sellers are. And the credit sellers cause the inflation because they farm the credits 24/7.

It's fine if they want to make money but setting prices so high that most people can't afford them will lead to people using credit sellers. It's all good and well to have certain principles but you have to be able to afford them. It's not hard to figure that when you have 10 bucks to spend and get 1000 CC for them or you get 150 million credits with them and the item that costs 2100 CC in the CM is on sale on the GTN for 90 million credits what the better deal is and only deal if you want to get that item. So it's risky but it's your only choice to get that item or you have to grind yourself silly for 2 months. And that's not fun.

So BioWare is knowingly creating a market for credit sellers and trying to threaten people to not use them with possible bans. That only means that their profits are still that good that they can afford to push people to credit sellers but it's not great from an ethical point of view.

Not the definition of P2W. If you can acquire the best items with real money, this is P2W. Where the items come from really doesn't matter.

There's a fussy distinction between "Pay To Win" and "Pay To Accelerate", where "only with money" is definitely P2W, and "faster with money" is P2A, with some caveats about how long it takes if you don't pay money. (If it takes a couple of hours, there's no point in paying, while if it takes a couple of years, it might as well be "only with money".)

There's a fussy distinction between "Pay To Win" and "Pay To Accelerate", where "only with money" is definitely P2W, and "faster with money" is P2A, with some caveats about how long it takes if you don't pay money. (If it takes a couple of hours, there's no point in paying, while if it takes a couple of years, it might as well be "only with money".)

There is that distinct difference but considering that this is a game that is alt-friendly and people generally having multiple alts, even if they don't need it, they do want to gear up to BiS even just for the sake of it. BW enabled this fully with 6.0. And if you have say 10 alts, then it'll take you years to get them all in full augments.

So in this context it's a grind that is artificially extended in order to give people the illusion of long-term goals but the real goal is to get people to spend more money to avoid this grind. Of course at some point, it's taken too far and then it turns to apathy.

Time will tell. And I'm sure they'll throw us a bone yet by making some adjustments "based on the PTS feedback". Just nowhere near as much as we'd like of course.

I'm sure BW would be more than happy if people went the CC>GTN>Credits>Augment rout.

 

Given the likely price tag though, I expect many will go for the Credit Seller>Augment rout instead.

I won't do either of these, but I now better understand why people use credit sellers, and will stop reporting them when I see them advertising in the future.

I won't do either of these, but I now better understand why people use credit sellers, and will stop reporting them when I see them advertising in the future.

You should report all credit sellers. Many of them once you go to the website will then be able to hack into your Account. Better for us as a community to try and get rid of them. It's impossible of course, but still a good idea to try.

You should report all credit sellers. Many of them once you go to the website will then be able to hack into your Account. Better for us as a community to try and get rid of them. It's impossible of course, but still a good idea to try.

I believe in a persons right to be stupid if they want to be. So if they want to spend money to buy cm stuff so that they can convert it to credits, then I sat live and let live. Likewise, if people want to be stupid enough to buy credits from a credit seller, I will no longer be an impediment to those sales for as long as BioWare is complicit in driving those purchases.

If the folks at BioWare think that credit sellers are bad, then they should not do things that will encourage people to use them.

I mean I happen to agree with Toraak on the credit spammers. They're bad for all of us

So why do BioWare make things that drive people to credit sellers? They are as much the cause as the players who go there because they know this will happen because a lot of people can't afford CM prices but they still want those things for obvious reasons. After all, 90% of cosmetics come from outside the game and are not available in game.

They're hell-bent on monetizing the crap out of this game and a side effect is that more and more people will go to credit sellers. I mean I'm glad that I'm in a position that I can afford it, but I do sympathise with people who can't.

BW just doesn't want to change those things that make credit sellers a viable option for many players because it still makes them money. One thing they could do is to make CM items BoL and not tradeable....that would make credits entirely superfluous in a game with fixed costs essentially. And that would take the market away from credit sellers. Of course it would also mean a decrease in sales for BW in the CM because then people won't be able to buy those items to resell on the GTN for credits. So BW actually needs those credit sellers so that people can afford the stuff on the GTN so that it's worth to others to drop real cash in the CM so they can sell them on the GTN. But the credits that people can afford come from credit sellers/farmers.

BW just need to limit them and appeal to our sense of morality so we keep buying the stuff from the CM rather than going to credit sellers. This way they create the market for selling CM items and the gold sellers supply the credits to those who can't afford the CM items. They just need to make sure the balance between the two is right.

In the end you can't pluck a bald chicken but you can pluck a chicken with many feathers twice as long as the supply doesn't exceed the demand. If you catch my meaning.

Now all of that still means that I am against credit sellers/farmers and I will forever remain in that camp. But I think I'm more against them than BioWare are.

There's a fussy distinction between "Pay To Win" and "Pay To Accelerate", where "only with money" is definitely P2W, and "faster with money" is P2A, with some caveats about how long it takes if you don't pay money. (If it takes a couple of hours, there's no point in paying, while if it takes a couple of years, it might as well be "only with money".)

Pay-not-to-wait transactions are ransom. They rent us relief from developer-sabotaged quality of life, and because they materially impact gameplay, they're absolutely P2W.

Also, the fact that EA/BW is selling us the labor of other players doesn't make the system any less P2W. It remains a money laundering scheme, which allows players to give EA/BW cash to attain end-game gear.

The whole ecosystem is polluted by this extraction of cash for advantage.