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Fought My First Ranked PVP


Bookworm_Jedi

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aaaaand I realized I sucked. 3v3 map. Team lost. Didn't get ragers, but was told to never que up again until I got better. :D

 

 

But... isn't that how one gets better is by practice? Am I missing gear? Currently using my sent, Got all 236 armor, sans both of my relics, and I'm almost to 200 in cxp.

 

 

Is there something I'm missing? I literally only tried this because of the UC's and whatnot at the end.

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aaaaand I realized I sucked. 3v3 map. Team lost. Didn't get ragers, but was told to never que up again until I got better. :D

 

 

But... isn't that how one gets better is by practice? Am I missing gear? Currently using my sent, Got all 236 armor, sans both of my relics, and I'm almost to 200 in cxp.

 

 

Is there something I'm missing? I literally only tried this because of the UC's and whatnot at the end.

 

For gear you should be fine with 230's, except you want to get the highest main-hand you can as quick as possible (if you do PvE at all, go do the bosses on Ossus for the 252 main hand). For your relics, if you have the command tokens, just buy 230's and you should be set. (Bolster makes everything 252, except main hand). Command level (cxp) doesn't really matter anymore.

 

As far as "don't queue again"... well, my opinion only, but yeah, ignore those people (assuming you are actually trying to win, and not afk'ing or something?). I agree with the "you really only get ranked by playing ranked" idea. I also started doing ranked recently, and it's just different. Even getting an arena in regs is just not the same. People don't apply the same strategies for the most part, there's not as much urgency to win, and, in my experience anyway, there's actually less toxicity and more willingness to help others get better.

 

So keep queuing. There's a place in ranked for us bads too!!!!!

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What class and spec did you queue on? You should obviously queue on something you are proficient with, but some classes are focus magnets.

 

Tanks and healers:

These classes have an enormous impact on the match, and requires a lot of investment to play in ranked. A bad DPS doesn't have quite as large an impact.

 

PTs and Juggs:

Juggs and PTs will often be focused first, and require tough skin to play in ranked.

 

Sniper:

Good snipers are top 3 in ranked and bad snipers are insta-kills. I would not recommend sniper to start with.

 

Sorc:

This is trickly. A good sorc can escape and survive for a long time, and they are often left alone in ranked. So maybe.

 

Mercs (Arsenal):

The obvious choice for trying ranked, but man I have seen many mercs die fast. Especially against Maras as they panic and pop all defenses all at once. So again, maybe.

 

Oper and Sins:

A stealth class would be my choice. Sins are focused somewhat frequently, but if you can cloak out and heal you will not be yelled at too much :D. Opers are seldom focused in ranked, and it would be my choice if I was completely new.

 

But then again...

It is a game. It is supposed to be fun. If you can enjoy running a PT in ranked and getting globalled go for it :p

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aaaaand I realized I sucked. 3v3 map. Team lost. Didn't get ragers, but was told to never que up again until I got better. :D

 

 

But... isn't that how one gets better is by practice? Am I missing gear? Currently using my sent, Got all 236 armor, sans both of my relics, and I'm almost to 200 in cxp.

 

 

Is there something I'm missing? I literally only tried this because of the UC's and whatnot at the end.

 

You need to slot some augments in your 230 armor as well. Bolster affects them too, so even an MK-1 augment kit with minimum level augments will work.

 

If people see you don't have augments, they automatically assume you're not serious.

 

As for the "don't queue again until you get better," just say, "sorry, M8, got to get my 50 ranked matches. Thank the devs for that."

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For gear you should be fine with 230's, except you want to get the highest main-hand you can as quick as possible (if you do PvE at all, go do the bosses on Ossus for the 252 main hand). For your relics, if you have the command tokens, just buy 230's and you should be set. (Bolster makes everything 252, except main hand). Command level (cxp) doesn't really matter anymore.

 

As far as "don't queue again"... well, my opinion only, but yeah, ignore those people (assuming you are actually trying to win, and not afk'ing or something?). I agree with the "you really only get ranked by playing ranked" idea. I also started doing ranked recently, and it's just different. Even getting an arena in regs is just not the same. People don't apply the same strategies for the most part, there's not as much urgency to win, and, in my experience anyway, there's actually less toxicity and more willingness to help others get better.

 

So keep queuing. There's a place in ranked for us bads too!!!!!

 

I mostly agree with you here, but two things are worth pointing out. First, it's true that gear doesn't matter all that much due to bolster, but low gear level signifies that the person is probably new to ranked, or is inexperienced at their class. That assumption isn't always right, but it is the vast majority of the time. So if you are perceived as new, you will almost always get focused first, and if you really are new, you are going to die quickly, repeatedly, and you will be a detriment to every team that you're on. So, I would recommend getting to at least 248 gear, just to avoid what I described to some degree.

 

Second, I also agree that the only way to get better at ranked is to play ranked, but only to a point. You have to be minimally proficient at your class to even get anywhere. That means you know a good damage rotation, you know how to use all of your defensive cooldowns, and you are capable of attacking the correct focus targets. If you can't do those things, you need to learn them in regs before coming into ranked, because you would be doing a disservice to everyone on your team in ranked.

 

Here's a helpful analogy that I like. Imagine joining a bunch of friendly people playing a pick up basketball game. They see you wearing jeans and dress shoes, but they figure, who cares, we'll let him join. They pass you the ball and you proceed to punt it at the basket. They all try to explain to you that you need to shoot the ball with your hands. You say you understand, but when they pass you the ball again, you kick it once more. At this point, they ask you to please leave the game and not return until you understand and learn to shoot the ball with your hands. They point you to an empty court to practice on.

 

Don't these players seem entirely reasonable for not wanting to play with someone that wants to kick a basketball at the basket? That is how many ranked pvpers feel when we are teamed with people that do not have any clue how to play their class and get globaled repeatedly. Ranked is not the place to start from scratch. You already have to have a solid foundation coming into it for the experience to be informative.

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I mostly agree with you here, but two things are worth pointing out. First, it's true that gear doesn't matter all that much due to bolster, but low gear level signifies that the person is probably new to ranked, or is inexperienced at their class. That assumption isn't always right, but it is the vast majority of the time. So if you are perceived as new, you will almost always get focused first, and if you really are new, you are going to die quickly, repeatedly, and you will be a detriment to every team that you're on. So, I would recommend getting to at least 248 gear, just to avoid what I described to some degree.

 

Second, I also agree that the only way to get better at ranked is to play ranked, but only to a point. You have to be minimally proficient at your class to even get anywhere. That means you know a good damage rotation, you know how to use all of your defensive cooldowns, and you are capable of attacking the correct focus targets. If you can't do those things, you need to learn them in regs before coming into ranked, because you would be doing a disservice to everyone on your team in ranked.

 

Here's a helpful analogy that I like. Imagine joining a bunch of friendly people playing a pick up basketball game. They see you wearing jeans and dress shoes, but they figure, who cares, we'll let him join. They pass you the ball and you proceed to punt it at the basket. They all try to explain to you that you need to shoot the ball with your hands. You say you understand, but when they pass you the ball again, you kick it once more. At this point, they ask you to please leave the game and not return until you understand and learn to shoot the ball with your hands. They point you to an empty court to practice on.

 

Don't these players seem entirely reasonable for not wanting to play with someone that wants to kick a basketball at the basket? That is how many ranked pvpers feel when we are teamed with people that do not have any clue how to play their class and get globaled repeatedly. Ranked is not the place to start from scratch. You already have to have a solid foundation coming into it for the experience to be informative.

 

Considering you have to be rank 25 to even queue for ranked, it's hard to think that your analogy would apply in most (not all, of course, there are some truly clueless players out there) cases.

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... You have to be minimally proficient at your class to even get anywhere.

<basketball analogy>

 

Oh, I like basketball analogies. :D

 

Yes, I agree that your example is perfectly reasonable. I would equate your punter to someone who really has no interest in getting better. If that person took the advice, and was shooting with her hands after a few minutes, but still could never hit the basket, then I would say they get to stay. They will be the last one picked each time, but they get to stay. However, yes, I would also expect them to be trying to get better on their own in the "off season" (i.e. while waiting an hour for the next game to pop). I guess that's the whole "trying" thing. If someone is actually trying to win, welcome. Please queue.

 

I see that sort of as, to continue your analogy, now I can shoot free throws and jump shots all day long and hit nothing but net, as long as there is no one in my face trying to stop me. But as soon as someone sticks a hand in my face, my concentration goes out the window and I miss every time.

 

I have been playing ranked now for a couple weeks, and after some *helpful* and *friendly* advice about my DPS (well, lack thereof) I went back and re-re-re-reviewed all my abilities again to try to figure out why I wasn't doing as well as I should. I discovered... "Oh crap! Shadow Strike is NOT affected by the crit increase from potency". I had my priority list all messed up for deception because I had SS way higher than it should have been. I fixed that and am now doing a bit better. Still not where I should be, but I continue to work on it.

 

In regs, I play too objectively, and ALWAYS end up solo guarding some node for almost the whole game, or am the first one to be running off to reinforce the off node. So I'm never just dps'ing the whole match - not even close. It's really hard, in my opinion/experience, to even see "raw dps" problems since my "up time" is usually so low/sporadic.

 

Ok, that got a bit rambling... but it's an attempt to illustrate where I'm coming from. As always, my opinion only.

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You need to slot some augments in your 230 armor as well. Bolster affects them too, so even an MK-1 augment kit with minimum level augments will work.

 

If people see you don't have augments, they automatically assume you're not serious.

 

As for the "don't queue again until you get better," just say, "sorry, M8, got to get my 50 ranked matches. Thank the devs for that."

 

FYI - you get free 236 versatile augments, even if you don't have any augment kits installed. This was tested and verified I'm 99.999999999% sure. :D

 

Of course, if you want something other than all versatile (i.e. mastery) augs, then yeah, you have to put something else in yourself. I think the testing for that was done using 228 augs of various kinds, and those bolstered well and are relatively cheap.

 

And yes, I can still see the point that not having augs (or as a previous poster said, just having low gear level) can mark you as a "new person" and so you get focused. I've seen that happen plenty. Just don't be a dps jugger/guardian with 230 gear. :p

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Considering you have to be rank 25 to even queue for ranked, it's hard to think that your analogy would apply in most (not all, of course, there are some truly clueless players out there) cases.

 

I really wish that were so, but frankly, it's naive to think that getting to valor 25 means that you know anything about your class. In regs you can just spawn, run in and use a few abilities, die, and repeat. Many players just think that that's how you play, with no concept of actually using defensive cooldowns to survive, or reset, etc. Also, getting to valor 25 only takes a few hours.

 

Oh, I like basketball analogies. :D

 

Yes, I agree that your example is perfectly reasonable. I would equate your punter to someone who really has no interest in getting better. If that person took the advice, and was shooting with her hands after a few minutes, but still could never hit the basket, then I would say they get to stay. They will be the last one picked each time, but they get to stay. However, yes, I would also expect them to be trying to get better on their own in the "off season" (i.e. while waiting an hour for the next game to pop). I guess that's the whole "trying" thing. If someone is actually trying to win, welcome. Please queue.

 

We may have to agree to disagree here, but to me simply trying to win is not enough. You and I envision the punter differently. To me, the punter is a player who comes in and thinks they know how to play their class. When given advice about how to play, they either don't listen for whatever reason or they are just too slow, or whatever, and continue to get globaled. It has nothing to do with trying to win, but everything to do with basic competence at their class.

 

So let's say the person does start shooting with their hands, but they miss the basket by a lot every single time. Well, they took on the feedback of not kicking it, but that's still not good enough to me. That's like telling a globaled merc to use reflect, so now he uses it as he enters combat before anyone even damages him (I've actually seen a merc that does that in solos).

 

And again, not to get too personal about it, but I've been in a bunch of games with you by now, and you are not even close to the punter I described. You clearly have a good grasp about how you need to play your class. Maybe you're not an expert yet, but that's fine; no one is expecting perfection. But I'm not sure you appreciate how truly bad and clueless some people are in ranked. They are playing at a much, much lower level than you. And those people are doing a disservice to every team that they play on, and I don't think they belong in ranked. I also don't think that pointing that out is "toxic" as long as it's done politely.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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I mostly agree with you here, but two things are worth pointing out. First, it's true that gear doesn't matter all that much due to bolster, but low gear level signifies that the person is probably new to ranked, or is inexperienced at their class. That assumption isn't always right, but it is the vast majority of the time.

 

Yup and I also look if they have the "Legendary Player" title. Rarely do I find a good player who hasn't played all classes.

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FYI - you get free 236 versatile augments, even if you don't have any augment kits installed. This was tested and verified I'm 99.999999999% sure. :D

 

Of course, if you want something other than all versatile (i.e. mastery) augs, then yeah, you have to put something else in yourself. I think the testing for that was done using 228 augs of various kinds, and those bolstered well and are relatively cheap.

 

And yes, I can still see the point that not having augs (or as a previous poster said, just having low gear level) can mark you as a "new person" and so you get focused. I've seen that happen plenty. Just don't be a dps jugger/guardian with 230 gear. :p

 

Good to know. Thanks for the update. You just saved me a lot of time on my new toons.

 

(I just got back after three years, so I've been playing through the story on new toons instead of the ones that are already augmented.)

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PTs and Juggs:

Juggs and PTs will often be focused first, and require tough skin to play in ranked.

 

I saw an interesting/new situation today. We tunneled the dps juggernaught, and he would NOT go down. Meanwhile, the rest of his team picked us apart. The next game against basically the same team someone pointed out "hey, that jugger is in tank gear". So we saved him for last and it worked much better. :p

 

I don't know if "tank gear" is actually a good way for a dps jugger/guardian to counter the "go guardian first!" strategy in general, but I thought... "huh, there's an idea".

 

Oper and Sins:

A stealth class would be my choice. Sins are focused somewhat frequently, but if you can cloak out and heal you will not be yelled at too much :D. Opers are seldom focused in ranked, and it would be my choice if I was completely new.

 

Something I found out, in ranked people are a LOT better at denying me the stealth-and-heal. It's actually kinda tricky, for me anyway, to pull it off without a stealth scan, or an aoe, or a quick "push" knocking me back out of stealth - even with the resilience talent tacked on. I try to head in a random direction after stealthing, but they still get me a lot of times.

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Find a dueling partner in-between queue pops. Usually you can squeeze in 1 or 2 with full cooldowns before the next pop.

 

Helps break up the monotony of waiting for next game

Keeps your APM (Actions Per Minute) high

Practice different tactics vs X class

Try out other utilities

 

10/10, would recommend

 

P.S. If you don't know already cybertech grenades can be used in ranked and are quite useful.

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P.S. If you don't know already cybertech grenades can be used in ranked and are quite useful.

 

About grenades... is there any consensus/advice about when they should be used? I picked up some for ranked (because who uses grenades in regs... heh :p) after I saw Krea's vid a while ago, and I use them once in a while. Basically, if I see 3 or more of the enemy grouped up I might throw one. But I'm always worried I use them at a really bad time or something. If I use one, that makes anyone hit by it immune to grenades for the rest of the round, right? So is there a rule of thumb for how to "coordinate" grenades?

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I don't know if "tank gear" is actually a good way for a dps jugger/guardian to counter the "go guardian first!" strategy in general, but I thought... "huh, there's an idea".

 

I have tried that recently just for the heck of it, and no I can not recommend it. I survived a bit longer sure, but my decline in damage was noticeable.

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I have tried that recently just for the heck of it, and no I can not recommend it. I survived a bit longer sure, but my decline in damage was noticeable.

 

Ah good to know. I suspected it might have also been just a good player behind the gear.

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You need to slot some augments in your 230 armor as well. Bolster affects them too, so even an MK-1 augment kit with minimum level augments will work.

 

If people see you don't have augments, they automatically assume you're not serious.

 

As for the "don't queue again until you get better," just say, "sorry, M8, got to get my 50 ranked matches. Thank the devs for that."

 

From extensive testing of Augments since the change, this is what I’ve been able to sumise.

 

Use 228 Augments to get the secondary stats you need to boost

 

Don’t use 236 or 240 Augments until you have all 252/258 gear. (You will actually get less stats).

 

Don’t use mastery Augments because it’s a waste. Those are the Augments stats Bolster is making 252. You can test this by putting in and pulling out mastery Augments. (Not one stat changes)

 

So once you get your secondary stats the way you want. Don’t put Augments in the rest of the gear if you would normally put mastery ones in. (But you do need to put augment slots on the gear or it won’t Bolster the slot.

 

If you think you have the right mix of secondary stats and maybe a little too much mastery after being bolstered, you can use power Augments to give you a tiny bit more damage, but it will reduce your health stats.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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About grenades... is there any consensus/advice about when they should be used? I picked up some for ranked (because who uses grenades in regs... heh :p) after I saw Krea's vid a while ago, and I use them once in a while. Basically, if I see 3 or more of the enemy grouped up I might throw one. But I'm always worried I use them at a really bad time or something. If I use one, that makes anyone hit by it immune to grenades for the rest of the round, right? So is there a rule of thumb for how to "coordinate" grenades?

 

LoL, I use grenades in regs. They are in the game, why shouldn’t I use them :D

It’s the same as saying, I won’t use “x” ability cause it’s only regs.

I even use them in lowbies because most of the time I don’t even have a stun or breaker and I’m against higher players who already have those abilities.

Let’s not forget that an Operative can keep you stunned or immobile for 20secs? Having an AOE grenade to drop on them while they are butt *********** you is always handy ;)

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Something I found out, in ranked people are a LOT better at denying me the stealth-and-heal. It's actually kinda tricky, for me anyway, to pull it off without a stealth scan, or an aoe, or a quick "push" knocking me back out of stealth - even with the resilience talent tacked on. I try to head in a random direction after stealthing, but they still get me a lot of times.

 

A lot of them also play stealth classes and know the escape vectors. It makes it really hard sometimes. I’m even noticing it more in regs than I use to.

Maybe try doing something you probably shouldn’t do, run back through the middle of them instead of away. I’ve been doing that in regs to greater success when I see people anticipating my escape route. (I don’t use my Sin in ranked).

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LoL, I use grenades in regs. They are in the game, why shouldn’t I use them :D

It’s the same as saying, I won’t use “x” ability cause it’s only regs.

I even use them in lowbies because most of the time I don’t even have a stun or breaker and I’m against higher players who already have those abilities.

Let’s not forget that an Operative can keep you stunned or immobile for 20secs? Having an AOE grenade to drop on them while they are butt *********** you is always handy ;)

 

It's true, I agree they ought to be used but I have to admit anytime someone uses a grenade on me in regs I chuckle. I don't know why, as you say they are perfectly fine to be used in regs though. :D

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LoL, I use grenades in regs. They are in the game, why shouldn’t I use them :D

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with using grenades in regs, but it does cost credits/resources to buy/craft them, which is why it's funny to some people when you're using them in regs. If you are using them consistently, the amount you spend on them probably outweighs how much you make from completing warzones, so you're basically paying to play pvp.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with using grenades in regs, but it does cost credits/resources to buy/craft them, which is why it's funny to some people when you're using them in regs. If you are using them consistently, the amount you spend on them probably outweighs how much you make from completing warzones, so you're basically paying to play pvp.

 

I just feel it's an inconvenience that I am not interested in experiencing, crafting them or buying them for regs.

 

But, this is coming from someone that for a long time never used the PVP stim packs. I don't know why, but when I had first started playing SWTOR I didn't think I needed to use the packs.

 

I remember when I told a guy this, he said had he known I never used them before we started grouping and I told him that earlier he wouldn't group with me lol. I ended up using them after he said that and have used them ever since. :D

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I use grenades in lowbies :D

 

That was YOU!? :p

 

Ha ha. Who knew that grenades in regs was such a hot button topic?

 

But really, can we get this thread back on track and complain about how utterly stupid it is that if you just want to do ranked PvP, then in order to prepare your gear for ranked PvP you first have to do ranked PvP? How is it fair that the poor person in 230's, relying on bolster, is then the first one targeted... it's not like they can help it. Unless... they are a DIRTY PVE person, and geared up that way! Stupid bioware gearing. :mad:

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That was YOU!? :p

 

It could have been Trixxie too, she admitted to using grenades in lowbies don't forget!

 

Ha ha. Who knew that grenades in regs was such a hot button topic?

 

That's what you always do, you create these topics of deep debate under a guise of innocence. What's your next topic going to be I wonder? :p

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