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Vandin Hutball tweek


varietasplus

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While vanilla and Quesh Hutball differ as much as possible, Vandin shares a tactical move with the original map. If there is a stealther waiting at the enemy's goal line, ball carrier just have to pick up the ball, cross the lowest floor and pass.

 

I suggest that in Vandin, the lowest floor (underneath the platforms) should periodically become an acid pool (instant death). This would force ball carriers to pass frequently and teammates to position well while moving on the platforms only. Lowest floor should only be usable for a short period of time (as a last resort or quick perception), so a mistimed push might even grant the enemy an upper hand if their teammate is ready to receive a pass at the goal line.

 

This would bring more strategic approach and diversity compared to the original map.

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While vanilla and Quesh Hutball differ as much as possible, Vandin shares a tactical move with the original map. If there is a stealther waiting at the enemy's goal line, ball carrier just have to pick up the ball, cross the lowest floor and pass.

 

I suggest that in Vandin, the lowest floor (underneath the platforms) should periodically become an acid pool (instant death). This would force ball carriers to pass frequently and teammates to position well while moving on the platforms only. Lowest floor should only be usable for a short period of time (as a last resort or quick perception), so a mistimed push might even grant the enemy an upper hand if their teammate is ready to receive a pass at the goal line.

 

This would bring more strategic approach and diversity compared to the original map.

 

I think this is a good idea. More acid!

 

That strategy gets old, too. I hate the stealths that do nothing but run to the ledge of the other teams goal line area just twiddling their thumbs waiting for everyone else to do the work and bring them the ball.

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Or, just play around the really obvious tactic rather than redesigning the map to accommodate your laziness?

 

That is rich coming from a well-known operative, hitting a sensitive spot? For your intention, if it was about laziness, I would have recommended to alter both maps. The aim of the suggestion was to diversify HB maps even more.

Edited by varietasplus
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I also recommend removing roll from operatives as well as holotraverse. Both of these abilities compromise the Huttball maps to the point they eliminate all challenge of getting from one end of the map to the other.

 

#NerfOperatives

 

We all know that is a valid point, but that is off-topic and and old story, no need to troll me. You probably remember that there has been an attempt to solve the issue by disabling gap closer skills for the ball carrier, but since it affected all classes (not only smugglers/operatives), the crying was overwhelming. So as of today, whichever team has a double roller, wins.

Edited by varietasplus
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We all know that is a valid point, but that is off-topic and and old story, no need to troll me. You probably remember that there has been an attempt to solve the issue by disabling gap closer skills for the ball carrier, but since it affected all classes (not only smugglers/operatives), the crying was overwhelming. So as of today, whichever team has a double roller, wins.

 

If the enemy team having a operative is enough for you to lose then you're just bad at huttball. Operatives have never been the strongest class at huttball unless you're facing 8 dribblers.

 

Seeing as you're struggling so much with double roll here's a video that will help you be less bad.

 

 

You're welcome.

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You're welcome.

 

I just ran my wife through your training and she’s picked up so much.

While I knew and already do most of what you explained, I’m not the best at explaining stuff myself and she often gets frustrated or I get frustrated with her in pvp.

So from her and me, thank you for running and recording these sessions. It’s much appreciated. :D

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We all know that is a valid point, but that is off-topic and and old story, no need to troll me. You probably remember that there has been an attempt to solve the issue by disabling gap closer skills for the ball carrier, but since it affected all classes (not only smugglers/operatives), the crying was overwhelming. So as of today, whichever team has a double roller, wins.

 

Like Snave said, that’s not the case (unless you have a crap teams)

 

Most of those same tactics an operative uses can be done on multiple classes. There is blade blitz for warrior classes as well as predation for Mara’s. Inquisitors have speed run as well as pull for Sorcs and some sin spec. I can even use cover roll and then roll on my sniper when carrying the ball (which I often do because my stupid team won’t pick up the ball).

 

If you know the other team has an operative, then you need to be ready to shut them down if they are ball carrying. If you are patient and don’t panic, you can slow them and then stun them in the trap before they roll. This will give you the ball when they die. Or you just make sure they die. If they are smart, they will pass anyway and not try to carry to the line (unless they have to carry their bad team).

 

The thing to remember when playing any pvp, but especially HB, is to play your classes role and strengths and know what they are. Many people don’t and leave it up to classes less suited to fill that role (ie, when my team relies on me scoring every goal on my sniper). Huttball Ball is a sport and not a death match and too many people forget that. It requires proper team work against good players and no one class on a team will make it an instant win.

 

I know from your other thread that you love HB, so you probably know some of what I’m saying, but Snave is right about operatives and he would know just how vulnerable an Operative can be in HB against good players.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Personally I would like to see, all stealth classes be forced out of stealth once they enter the goal line area, in all hutt ball games. I play all classes, just find it frustrating when you know there is one on the goal line, and by the time the engine has caught up they have already scored.
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If the enemy team having a operative is enough for you to lose then you're just bad at huttball. Operatives have never been the strongest class at huttball unless you're facing 8 dribblers.

 

Seeing as you're struggling so much with double roll here's a video that will help you be less bad.

 

 

You're welcome.

Even if you have good intentions, if you provide a helping hand in a derogative, sarcastic, insulting manner, the overall impression will be you are an arrogant person with a bad attitude. I always end up having top 3 objective points in HB regardless of the class I am playing, so I don't consider myself a bad player. That does not mean there is no room for improvement, so I am going to watch the whole guide.

 

Regardless of that, you have to evaluate double roll mechanism in real ingame (current players base) and technical conditions. Suppose a few of us knew what to do against an operative, that does not make the pugs in my team understand/care. I am well aware that many classes have great tools in closing gaps as ball carriers, but when it comes to random teams, there is no other class as efficient as a scoundrel/operative. I don't argue that with premades it might not be the case, but there are no longer 8-man warzones queues and the current skill/motivation level of pugs is probably the lowest since game release.

 

Also, unlike leap or vanguard/pt charge, double roll does not need a target, is on a short CD along with scounrel/operative root breaker. Sure, as ranged you have better chance of keeping up with them, but as melee - especially JK/SW - it is nearly impossible with all the stuns/mezz/snare/root/slow thrown at you by enemy players. Again, if all players knew what they were doing, it would not be a big deal. But in most cases, 2-4 people are trying to carry the whole team and you can not be everywhere at the same time.

 

As for the technical issue: during the animation of a roll, owing to server lag, not only can't I target/attack the scoundrel/operative, but actually I can not even see it! Last moment I see it on a platform close to mid, then after 3 seconds of "invisibility" I read it has scored. And it is not on a rare occurance, it is happening all the time. No other skill animation has such effect on my computer, there is nothing wrong with my connenction.

 

Quesh is the worst, because one second I see the ball carrier on the bottom, then it disappears and it turns out it is on the highest platform. How do I counter such tecnical issue? Hope your video elaborates. My sub runs out today and don't intend to renew it, so I won't be able to respond, therefore I hope we are fine and this off-topic debate is discontinued.

Edited by varietasplus
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Personally I would like to see, all stealth classes be forced out of stealth once they enter the goal line area, in all hutt ball games. I play all classes, just find it frustrating when you know there is one on the goal line, and by the time the engine has caught up they have already scored.

 

Coulnd't agree more, but I refrained from such suggestion for I could foresee all the insulted stealthers calling out for non-stealthers be bads. It is the same underlying proplem as double roll: you can only counterattack an enemy tactics if your team knows what to do and there are no technical issues, but that is not the case. Hell, people don't even understand how important holding mid is or not to whitebar the ball carrier for no reason (suppose they cared at all about the objectives ...).

 

As it is now, on vanilla HB map, a stealther (especially operative DPS) can hinder enemy efforts like no other class can. They can quickly solo-kill a respawned enemy (very good duelist class) or simply delay them from catching up with the ball carrier or get back to mid. An unstealth debuff would resolve that issue as well, but the forum flame such change would result is simply not worth it.

 

In general I favour teach & learn method on how to counter different tactics/skills/classes, but in certain cases you have to take the easier solution (nerf/simplify) for the sake of the vast majority. Over the years, many classes have lost important abilities (shadow tank self-heal, shadow phase walk, scoundrel knockdown opener, etc.) or hit by a nerfbat hard. Lolsmash is the perfect example, where encountering them theroretically was not a big deal (don't stack, stun/push back before Force Sweep/Smash), but most players were not willing to learn how to handle the situation, so developers intervened on their side.

 

Considering all the circumstances, this may be another situation where such change would benefit more than disappoint. But this is off-topic as well.

Edited by varietasplus
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