Banderal Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 Since every reg match takes personal time and energy of each player, I find it difficult to justify ruining someone else's game with lack of effort or any other bad behavior just because no one is getting a reward at the end of the match. Pft. Where'd you get the idea that anything in an MMO is about others? Neither of those M's stand for other people in the game with you! MMO stands for "Meglomaniac Me Online". Worrying about others.... lol... you newb! Now excuse me. I have an inner city pick-up basketball game to get into. I don't actually want to play basketball because I'm bored with that, I just want to practice my dribbling minigame. I'm sure they won't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Pft. Where'd you get the idea that anything in an MMO is about others? Neither of those M's stand for other people in the game with you! MMO stands for "Meglomaniac Me Online". Worrying about others.... lol... you newb! Now excuse me. I have an inner city pick-up basketball game to get into. I don't actually want to play basketball because I'm bored with that, I just want to practice my dribbling minigame. I'm sure they won't mind. Whenever I see someone say "its just regs who cares!" I think the person is number one; a kid, and number two; they probably just got into ranked and suddenly have this inflated ego and think now they are important. Children usually behave this way, that and some of our basement dwelling manchildren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banderal Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 Woo hoo! Ranked toxicity! Finally!!!! Not directed at me. I guess I saw a win-trader. Not sure. Was a merc who for a couple matches sure did go down easy. Then a game later, all the sudden he didn't go down so easy. Someone on my team mentioned he was win-trading, and *that* time, his bud was not on our team. There were a lot more swear words used though. I dunno. I have plenty of games where I do something stupid and I drop like a stone in water. And then I'll have a few where I get focused and I manage to retreat at just the right time and in just the correct direction, and I do a lot better. But I haven't been in games with the accused before (that I remember) so it's possible the pattern for those two holds for people that have encountered them more. For me, I'm just bad no matter who is around. Anyway, daily done and a few extra towards the weekly. Overall a +3 day so far. Helps make up for about a -6 day yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Whenever I see someone say "its just regs who cares!" I think the person is number one; a kid, and number two; they probably just got into ranked and suddenly have this inflated ego and think now they are important. Children usually behave this way, that and some of our basement dwelling manchildren. LoL, I always think the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiqh Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I was in 4 of those games with you (on 2 different chars). I think you're the kind of newcomer that any veteran solo ranked player appreciates. You're good enough that you don't get globaled, you're not delusional about your own skill level, and you're clearly trying to win and improve. I don't find it surprising that your experience hasn't been very toxic. The people that get the toxicity, sometimes deservedly, are the inverse of what I described above: they get globaled constantly, are delusional about their skill level, and they don't take any advice or try to get better. Nothing about what you described deserves a toxic response. Its a video game. Something you do for recreation. IMHO if the things you listed trigger a player to become toxic toward a teammate then perhaps the toxic player shouldn't be playing video game. This is for fun, not money. I feel the same way about cheaters btw. If a player is so serious and desperate to win a game thats intended to be just for fun they probably shouldnt be playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Nothing about what you described deserves a toxic response. Its a video game. Something you do for recreation. IMHO if the things you listed trigger a player to become toxic toward a teammate then perhaps the toxic player shouldn't be playing video game. This is for fun, not money. I feel the same way about cheaters btw. If a player is so serious and desperate to win a game thats intended to be just for fun they probably shouldnt be playing. The fun of ranked pvp is the competition. If you can't understand that, please don't ever queue for ranked yourself. And if you think me saying that to you is "toxic," you probably shouldn't be playing an online game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banderal Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Nothing about what you described deserves a toxic response. Its a video game. Something you do for recreation. IMHO if the things you listed trigger a player to become toxic toward a teammate then perhaps the toxic player shouldn't be playing video game. This is for fun, not money. I feel the same way about cheaters btw. If a player is so serious and desperate to win a game thats intended to be just for fun they probably shouldnt be playing. While I agree it doesn't deserve a toxic response, and in my own little ideal world, ranked play is for everyone... I can absolutely see the point of view that Alex has. And from at least one perspective I think it's perfectly valid. That person who goes into ranked and isn't really ready for it - they are ruining the fun of up to 7 other people. Technically that could be interpreted as against the TOS... you may not engage in any of the following behavior:... Do anything that interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic and using the Service in accordance with its rules... I guess it depends on exactly what is meant by interfering with other user's enjoyment of playing SWTOR. Obviously that can't mean that only the best of the best of the best can play ranked, or as I snidely posted on another thread, there'd be only 8 people allowed in ranked. But at some point, where is the line between "bad" and "you shouldn't be here at all"? There is "regs" after all, which by general consensus (I think) is where we are supposed to get ready for ranked if we are so inclined. Of course, if you can argue that a "bad" going into ranked is ruining it for the others, and therefore is against the code of conduct, then you can also argue that going into regs just to practice your "arena play" (and thus, ignoring the objectives for 8-mans) is ruining it for up to 15 others. But people "ruin" regs for others all the time by playing whatever little mini-game they feel like, and bioware never does anything. So obviously it's fine... I guess. Now I forgot which side I was arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiqh Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 The fun of ranked pvp is the competition. If you can't understand that, please don't ever queue for ranked yourself. And if you think me saying that to you is "toxic," you probably shouldn't be playing an online game. I dont think what you just wrote is toxic. I do think I struck a nerve with you. Its a lack of maturity that prevents "you" from realizing that just because its a competition doesnt mean you're allowed to be toxic. Unless you consider the toxicity to be part of the game thus part of the fun to which I would say you might want seek professional help. Because thats not normal. Ultimately if it stops being fun you should probably log off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) I dont think what you just wrote is toxic. I do think I struck a nerve with you. Its a lack of maturity that prevents "you" from realizing that just because its a competition doesnt mean you're allowed to be toxic. Unless you consider the toxicity to be part of the game thus part of the fun to which I would say you might want seek professional help. Because thats not normal. Ultimately if it stops being fun you should probably log off. I agree with you. No matter what, toxicity is not acceptable. When I had this guy dropping matches for pals last season, as much as I hated it, and as much as I was irritated I never once sent him any tells or said anything to him. If anyone deserves toxicity, it's the shady players that ruin ranked by win trades and other shady behavior yet even for them, no toxicity should be thrown. Why? Because all that does is breed the behavior and make it seem normal or acceptable which it's not. Toxic immature behavior isn't OK no matter what circumstances exist on a game. Less skilled players or noobs don't deserve being treated toxic no matter how bad they may be or no matter how they seem incapable of performing better. The supposed ELO system is supposed to sort players according to skill level anyway, so the chances of a pure noob getting placed with superstar ranked players is unlikely I'd think, right? At worst maybe when ELO is getting sorted when the contests first begin a superstar might get placed on a team with a noob which ought to cause no issues seeing it's an infrequent occurrence if all is working right. In a nutshell, there's zero place for toxicity on a game. The problem is this behavior has been the norm for some players for so long they don't even realize how bad they are. Edited March 19, 2019 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I dont think what you just wrote is toxic. I do think I struck a nerve with you. Its a lack of maturity that prevents "you" from realizing that just because its a competition doesnt mean you're allowed to be toxic. Unless you consider the toxicity to be part of the game thus part of the fun to which I would say you might want seek professional help. Because thats not normal. Ultimately if it stops being fun you should probably log off. I completely disagree. It's a lack of maturity on your part that you apparently cannot handle criticism from others. I do think "toxicity" is a part of any online game, and has to be accepted for what it is. If your psyche is so frail that what people say to you in a game really harms you, you might want to seek professional help. If people being "toxic" to you makes the game stop being fun, you should probably log off. No matter what, toxicity is not acceptable. This is an absurd statement, mostly because no two people can agree on what "toxicity" means. Clearly there is no place for any bigoted insults or slurs. Telling someone to kill themselves is clearly never acceptable. So there is certain "toxic" behavior that is never acceptable, sure. But some people think that saying "dude, use your dcds, you died in 2 seconds" is toxic. Or, if someone on your team is obviously throwing and you call them an ******e, is that really toxic? Since when is calling out bad behavior itself "not acceptable"? When public figures behave badly, many people engage in harsh criticism. Not only is it their right to do so, it's totally appropriate to criticize people for doing bad things. If we don't, that means we're just accepting bad behavior as the norm. Ignoring it doesn't help anyone. The impulse that many have to control what other people think and say is disturbing. The best counter to what you consider bad speech is more speech, not censorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I agree with you. No matter what, toxicity is not acceptable. When I had this guy dropping matches for pals last season, as much as I hated it, and as much as I was irritated I never once sent him any tells or said anything to him. If anyone deserves toxicity, it's the shady players that ruin ranked by win trades and other shady behavior yet even for them, no toxicity should be thrown. Why? Because all that does is breed the behavior and make it seem normal or acceptable which it's not. Toxic immature behavior isn't OK no matter what circumstances exist on a game. Less skilled players or noobs don't deserve being treated toxic no matter how bad they may be or no matter how they seem incapable of performing better. The supposed ELO system is supposed to sort players according to skill level anyway, so the chances of a pure noob getting placed with superstar ranked players is unlikely I'd think, right? At worst maybe when ELO is getting sorted when the contests first begin a superstar might get placed on a team with a noob which ought to cause no issues seeing it's an infrequent occurrence if all is working right. In a nutshell, there's zero place for toxicity on a game. The problem is this behavior has been the norm for some players for so long they don't even realize how bad they are. I have to disagree with you Lhance, toxicity isn't simply words/text/speech, it's also actions. When someone queues into solo ranked without a clue as to how to play their class that's "toxic". When someone queues into solo ranked to get their weekly/monumental crystal/mats that's "toxic". Telling someone that they are bad, that they're not ready for ranked, or that they should practice in regs isn't being toxic. Someone once made an analogy to playing basketball at the local rec center: When you go to the rec center there are multiple courts and it's fairly easy to distinguish the level of play on each court; most players are conscious of their own ability and will self regulate which court they choose to play on and if they find themselves in over their head they will (generally) step out without anyone saying anything to them. For some reason in video games many people are not capable of gauging their own level of play, it often takes someone confronting them (and this often leads to an argument) for them to acknowledge that they are in over their head; furthermore, it is often the case that even the ones who are aware that they are not ready will often opt to not self regulate, using the excuses of: -it's just a game -I can only get better if I play ranked*** -blame Bioware for X (mats/cystals/cxp/etc) -or they actually enjoy trolling others *** At a certain point this is true, however understanding your rotation, your dcds, and having a solid foundation of how your class plays vs other classes is something you should learn in regs (I won't talk about the people who struggle to use abilities or move their characters). Imagine if a person who couldn't dribble jumped into the serious full court match at the rec center and actually tried to play, what do you think the other players would do; do you think this would turn into a "toxic" situation, and if it did would you blame the other players? I'm not promoting toxic attitudes or behaviors, but Bioware has designed a system with no controls and is totally dependent on individual players to self regulate their behavior, this has been compounded by adding participation based rewards that are useful outside of pvp, it's only natural that a system like this would lead to toxicity. P.S. The word "toxicity" needs to go away, it has no set meaning and is almost meaningless to discuss since we all have an individual definition of what qualifies as toxic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I have to disagree with you Lhance, toxicity isn't simply words/text/speech, it's also actions. I agree with that, I didn't mean to make it sound like only words written express "toxicity." P.S. The word "toxicity" needs to go away, it has no set meaning and is almost meaningless to discuss since we all have an individual definition of what qualifies as toxic It's a buzzword, just like "SJW" and hundreds of other stupid generalized terms/words/statements people fall in love with using. I don't like generalizing and I find people are lazy and attach these types of words onto others mostly as insults too. Unfortunately we as people are lazy and will forever use single words or phrases to describe others, so the word "toxic" and others like it will always be in circulation. This is an absurd statement, mostly because no two people can agree on what "toxicity" means. Clearly there is no place for any bigoted insults or slurs. Telling someone to kill themselves is clearly never acceptable. So there is certain "toxic" behavior that is never acceptable, sure. But some people think that saying "dude, use your dcds, you died in 2 seconds" is toxic. I assume you are a reasonable adult that knows what "toxic" behavior is, in my mind there is little leeway in what "toxicity" means. Toxicity: b : an extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful quality. What the definition implies is purposeful negative behavior towards others. Giving constructive advice in no way falls into that category. Sure, in someone's mind that is either unreasonable, ignorant, or misunderstanding they might take critical instruction the wrong way, but just because that unreasonable person is offended by something someone wrote doesn't mean it's toxic. When the person is giving constructive criticism to use DCDs they are not saying it to be malicious, harsh, or harmful to the player who died in 2 secs. No normal, reasonable, mature adult that plays this game would take advice from someone else in the game to "use your DCDs you died in 2 secs" as being toxic. Now, if someone says "dude you dumb ******* you need to learn how to use your DCDs!" Well, that is toxic. Just figured I would add an example which I am pretty sure every person reading it would agree that it's toxic. If someone is queuing ranked, and they are lesser skilled and causing others to lose matches because they are the weakest link on the team that doesn't warrant insulting them no matter what. If someone is deliberately throwing games and/or playing awful with no intention of trying to win, as bad as it is there still is no justification to be "toxic" to them. Let's not play semantics here, the word "toxic" and what it means to us gamers is pretty clear to reasonable mature adults. As such, "toxic" behavior is not justified no matter what circumstances occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I'm not promoting toxic attitudes or behaviors, but Bioware has designed a system with no controls and is totally dependent on individual players to self regulate their behavior, this has been compounded by adding participation based rewards that are useful outside of pvp, it's only natural that a system like this would lead to toxicity. I agree with this too, I mean clearly the system only breeds a lot of the bad behavior exhibited by players. Nothing in the game really discourages players from behaving poorly (toxic!) and cheating is far too easy. The scoring system for ranked has failed miserably and because there is no direct ingame supervision the bad behavior can go on long stretches before the offenders are punished for it. This only makes the pool dirtier, so-to-speak. It seems a lot of the bad behavior falls through the cracks so that doesn't help matters either when it seems so many players get away with toxic behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Let's not play semantics here, the word "toxic" and what it means to us gamers is pretty clear to reasonable mature adults. As such, "toxic" behavior is not justified no matter what circumstances occur. I don't think it's semantics. I really wish that you were right, but you just aren't. People have wildly different views about what is considered toxic. That is a fact. Even "reasonable mature adults" can disagree about what is considered toxic. I guarantee that you've used language in game that someone has considered toxic. I think that it's worth being specific about exactly that kind of speech you think is unacceptable, because using toxic in a blanket way is just begging to be misinterpreted, because everyone defines toxic differently. Toxicity: b : an extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful quality. What the definition implies is purposeful negative behavior towards others. Giving constructive advice in no way falls into that category. Purposeful negative behavior towards others is not always wrong. If someone is acting badly, you actually want people to purposely act negatively toward them. That's called doing the right thing. If you see a person attacking someone, you either yell at them to stop or you physically try to stop them. Apparently that's toxic. Should we just walk on by so as not to be toxic? If I see an obvious case of wintrading and I tell the wintraders "you are terrible human beings for wintrading, you are ruining the game." By your definition that's toxic, but to me calling them out like that is totally justified, and vastly preferable to mere silence. Not only are you alerting others to what is happening, you are letting the bad actors know that their behavior is unacceptable, which is something that they may not have heard before in an environment where people rarely condemn wintrading (as discussed elsewhere, even a lot of non-wintraders are indifferent toward it). And again, I don't see this is semantics. I'm trying to illustrate for you that there is no such thing as a "reasonable adult" consensus on what is toxic, and that this really is not a simple issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I don't think it's semantics. I really wish that you were right, but you just aren't. People have wildly different views about what is considered toxic. That is a fact. Even "reasonable mature adults" can disagree about what is considered toxic. I guarantee that you've used language in game that someone has considered toxic. I think that it's worth being specific about exactly that kind of speech you think is unacceptable, because using toxic in a blanket way is just begging to be misinterpreted, because everyone defines toxic differently. Purposeful negative behavior towards others is not always wrong. If someone is acting badly, you actually want people to purposely act negatively toward them. That's called doing the right thing. If you see a person attacking someone, you either yell at them to stop or you physically try to stop them. Apparently that's toxic. Should we just walk on by so as not to be toxic? If I see an obvious case of wintrading and I tell the wintraders "you are terrible human beings for wintrading, you are ruining the game." By your definition that's toxic, but to me calling them out like that is totally justified, and vastly preferable to mere silence. Not only are you alerting others to what is happening, you are letting the bad actors know that their behavior is unacceptable, which is something that they may not have heard before in an environment where people rarely condemn wintrading (as discussed elsewhere, even a lot of non-wintraders are indifferent toward it). And again, I don't see this is semantics. I'm trying to illustrate for you that there is no such thing as a "reasonable adult" consensus on what is toxic, and that this really is not a simple issue. You even admit knowing what toxic behavior is, and you use an example where in your mind toxic behavior is justified and I do not. I see absolutely nothing gained by spewing verbal garbage at other people just because it makes me feel better. This isn't "calling someone out" this is being immature and childish. I am not saying that it's unusual behavior because even reasonable and mature adults can behave poorly or "toxic." The fact of the matter is this so-called "calling out" doesn't solve anything and if it's done in open channels where others see it, then that toxicity not only affects the supposed bad person but the bystanders that might not want to hear a bunch of childish chat insulting other people. Behaving like a boorish manchild doesn't teach the offending person a lesson, and it only encourages other players to be boorish and "call people out." Often times people can resort to calling out someone when it's not necessary and the toxic manchild doing the calling out is just venting because clearly them losing is everyone else's fault. There's never a time when being "toxic" or a boorish manchild is acceptable, that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) Let's not play semantics here, the word "toxic" and what it means to us gamers is pretty clear to reasonable mature adults. As such, "toxic" behavior is not justified no matter what circumstances occur. So, is telling someone that they are **** "toxic?" I don't think telling someone that they are horrible/****/terrible/etc is toxic, though I will agree that it's immature. Is queuing for solos for mats toxic, is queuing for solos as healer when you struggle to break 4k hps toxic, is queuing as a tank when you don't understand how to guard swap toxic; I think all of the above could be considered toxic but I also think many people would disagree. Another example is that a lot of "old school" pvpers accept that a certain about of brow beating or trash talking is simply a part of pvp and is perfectly acceptable; this used to lead to open world pvp, guild "wars," or one group challenging another to ranked, now people just get upset and consider any form of brow beating or trash talking as toxic. I'll extend this beyond ranked, let's look at what happens when someone queues for group finder as a tank but is actually dpsing or has such horrible gear that he/she is going to be a handicap to the group and then gets kicked... is the player who queued up for a role they were not ready to undertake toxic or is the players who kicked the person toxic (and we both know different people are going to respond differently here). Edited March 19, 2019 by alexsamma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 You even admit knowing what toxic behavior is, and you use an example where in your mind toxic behavior is justified and I do not. I see absolutely nothing gained by spewing verbal garbage at other people just because it makes me feel better. This isn't "calling someone out" this is being immature and childish. I am not saying that it's unusual behavior because even reasonable and mature adults can behave poorly or "toxic." The fact of the matter is this so-called "calling out" doesn't solve anything and if it's done in open channels where others see it, then that toxicity not only affects the supposed bad person but the bystanders that might not want to hear a bunch of childish chat insulting other people. Behaving like a boorish manchild doesn't teach the offending person a lesson, and it only encourages other players to be boorish and "call people out." Often times people can resort to calling out someone when it's not necessary and the toxic manchild doing the calling out is just venting because clearly them losing is everyone else's fault. There's never a time when being "toxic" or a boorish manchild is acceptable, that's just my opinion. I don't think that anything I've described is childish or boorish. There is great irony in your post, because you could easily characterize the entire thing as toxic according to your definition. You're literally name calling because you think I'm wrong. Apparently it's ok for you to call a "toxic" person a manchild, but it's not ok for me to call a wintrader an ******e. Do you even understand your own argument? Again, calling people out over their bad behavior is not toxic or immature, it's the right thing to do. Your impulse to want to silence people is a disturbing trend in the modern world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 So, it telling someone that they are **** "toxic?" I don't think telling someone that they are horrible/****/terrible/etc is toxic, though I will agree that it's immature. Is queuing for solos for mats toxic, is queuing for solos as healer when you struggle to break 4k hps toxic, is queuing as a tank when you don't understand how to guard swap toxic; I think all of the above could be considered toxic but I also think many people would disagree. Another example is that a lot of "old school" pvpers accept that a certain about of brow beating or trash talking is simply a part of pvp and is perfectly acceptable; this used to lead to open world pvp, guild "wars," or one group challenging another to ranked, now people just get upset and consider any form of brow beating or trash talking as toxic. I'll extend this beyond ranked, let's look at what happens when someone queues for group finder as a tank but is actually dpsing or has such horrible gear that he/she is going to be a handicap to the group and then gets kicked... is the player who queued up for a role they were not ready to undertake toxic or is the players who kicked the person toxic (and we both know different people are going to respond differently here). I realize many of us aren't bothered by "toxic" behavior, but that doesn't make it less toxic. For many people childish insults and what we seem to understand as toxic behavior discourages them and others from participating in PVP because not everyone is of the mentality that it's ok to call people *******s who need to uninstall the game and go die. It's irrelevant that long time PVP players and/or vets might not care about this type of behavior but many people are offended by it and don't want to read/hear it. I understand the frustration and been there myself but recognize by expressing my spite or anger at someone especially in open channels is not acceptable. I am not bothered by angry manchildren yelling at me, but many people don't react well to insults whether it's aimed at them or someone else openly. This is being toxic when our behavior perpetuates negativity which is all ranting and raging at someone openly does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Another example is that a lot of "old school" pvpers accept that a certain about of brow beating or trash talking is simply a part of pvp and is perfectly acceptable; this used to lead to open world pvp, guild "wars," or one group challenging another to ranked, now people just get upset and consider any form of brow beating or trash talking as toxic. This is an excellent point that I was hesitant to bring up directly. I wish some of the people complaining about "toxicity" had played games like counter-strike circa 2006. Often the trash-talking and "toxicity" are part of the competitive nature of the activity. Plenty of pro athletes are "toxic" toward each other, and it makes it more entertaining to watch. I don't think any of it stems from immaturity; it's the result of intense competition. Also, for the record, even according to the wide definition, I am very rarely "toxic" in game, but every time I see someone say "wow, that's toxic" in response to something totally innocuous, it makes me cringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) It's irrelevant that long time PVP players and/or vets might not care about this type of behavior but many people are offended by it and don't want to read/hear it. Just because they're offended doesn't mean they're right. I am not bothered by angry manchildren yelling at me Bro, that's toxic. (Do you really not see the irony?) Edited March 19, 2019 by JediMasterAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Again, calling people out over their bad behavior is not toxic or immature, it's the right thing to do. Your impulse to want to silence people is a disturbing trend in the modern world. Nice narrative you paint here, I mean most people would read what I write and understand in no way did I resort to "name calling" and in no way did I say people should be silent. If you can't comprehend what I say isn't acceptable versus what is and misconstrue what I write into what you think it is I write then we both are wasting time trying to communicate to each other. I am saying there's a difference between giving constructive criticism versus raging at someone for not performing well in a match. One is toxic, while the other is not. We can easily handle situations and communicate effectively without using insults and or behave like immature children, this isn't being "silent" this is being an adult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) Just because they're offended doesn't mean they're right. Bro, that's toxic. (Do you really not see the irony?) Sure, it is toxic but it doesn't affect me. That's my point... Just because I personally am not upset when people rage at me in PVP doesn't mean it's not toxic. It is. Also, using the term "manchild" might be immature and toxic, but I never called anyone in particular a name so I don't really see how what I wrote was toxic. Now, if I called someone directly such a name, then that would be toxic. I also understand that people can feel offended when in reality they probably should not. Misunderstandings happen all the time. We can debate what is toxic and what is not all day I guess, but it doesn't really matter what we think anyway. If someone feels that someone is being toxic, they will report the behavior and then BW can sort it out whether or not they think it is toxic. I explained what I view as toxic, and I don't see the word toxic as being all that ambiguous tbh. I believe that it's pretty universal what is really toxic and what is not in the game. Edited March 19, 2019 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Nice narrative you paint here, I mean most people would read what I write and understand in no way did I resort to "name calling" and in no way did I say people should be silent. Please explain to me how calling people immature, childish, and boorish manchildren is not name calling. I am saying there's a difference between giving constructive criticism versus raging at someone for not performing well in a match. One is toxic, while the other is not. We can easily handle situations and communicate effectively without using insults and or behave like immature children, this isn't being "silent" this is being an adult. What you're saying here has nothing to do with your previous arguments that I was responding to where your definition of toxic was infinitely wider. For sure, if you want to effectively communicate, avoid insults, that's pretty obvious. However, that has nothing to do with being an adult, or doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I believe that it's pretty universal what is really toxic and what is not in the game. This is just plainly untrue, but apparently there's no convincing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Please explain to me how calling people immature, childish, and boorish manchildren is not name calling. Oh, who did I call such names? Not once did I refer to anyone individually as such. I was describing poor behavior exhibited by some players in the game. Manchild fits the bill too btw when describing how some of the players act in the game. Now I'd keep that thought to myself and not call someone such a name in the game, because that would be toxic. I try to refrain from being openly toxic where it could bother bystanders other than the boorish/immature player who I might consider toxic because by emulating toxic behavior I am only perpetuating bad behavior. TL;DR No matter the circumstance, toxic behavior is not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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