Lundorff Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 That already almost happens with veng and rage, you just have to leap constantly on veng spec and use smash constantly on rage spec. You just take the utility for veng to decrease force leap cd whenver you're attacked and constantly leap. You can also use force push to reset cd timer if you really need it. Juggs imo (as a jugg player) are perfectly fine, I dont want another fotm class. As it stands PTs are still utter crap compared to juggs, trust me. Umm well 20% DR for 4 secs on veng and 10% / 6 sec on Rage is... not so impressive . But I certainly agree about them not becoming a FOTM class, that would be really annoying. And yes PTs are just terrible in SR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Ppl were always saying "nerf this class, nerf that class", well, yeah, LEARN to counter them. I recently won a duel against my friend who has 258 sniper, Gold from solo ranked 10, on my 248 operative and I dont even main operative or do solo ranked with it. I just know how to counter a sniper, hide/heal at precise time, dodge hard hits etc. Before that, I won against 2 mercs in 258 gear (it was a pvp tournament), and again, I dont even main operative, I just play them cause they are fun to play as a class. So yeah, nerfs arent needed, you just need to get better at your class. This has to be one of the stupidest posts of all time. Operatives are the best 1v1 class by far. Even a mediocre operative should be able to 1v1 any player on any other class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyne- Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 Ppl were always saying "nerf this class, nerf that class", well, yeah, LEARN to counter them. I recently won a duel against my friend who has 258 sniper, Gold from solo ranked 10, on my 248 operative and I dont even main operative or do solo ranked with it. I just know how to counter a sniper, hide/heal at precise time, dodge hard hits etc. Before that, I won against 2 mercs in 258 gear (it was a pvp tournament), and again, I dont even main operative, I just play them cause they are fun to play as a class. So yeah, nerfs arent needed, you just need to get better at your class. Not only does the majority of this post not apply to the topic of the thread, but it also doesn't even apply to the majority of good pvpers who play solo ranked. There are definitely classes that need to be adjusted ( looking at you mercs ), but the question is what is Bioware going to do about it and when? Some people here have made some pretty good suggestions. Hopefully the devs are paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACATW Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) Umm well 20% DR for 4 secs on veng and 10% / 6 sec on Rage is... not so impressive . But I certainly agree about them not becoming a FOTM class, that would be really annoying. And yes PTs are just terrible in SR. With the utility it's actually pretty great since it reduces CD on leap immensely whenever you're getting attacked, so the CD goes from 11 seconds (since 4 are with the buff) to like 5 or 6. You can also use a hard reset of force leap by using force push, so it's not so bad. A buff would make them OP and FOTM since they're already sorta close to it already they just need a little push after all their recently fixes. Juggs also insanely easy to play, which is why it's a preferred nooby class. Although it's not like you can't focus some juggs down or net them if you're a merc or have 4 carnage maras using gore constantly I really wouldnt like to see merc 2.0. I've pulled 10k dps while being focused in an arena on my veng jugg before so having merc like DcDs would make them terrifying. Edited March 15, 2019 by RACATW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Ppl were always saying "nerf this class, nerf that class", well, yeah, LEARN to counter them. I recently won a duel against my friend who has 258 sniper, Gold from solo ranked 10, on my 248 operative and I dont even main operative or do solo ranked with it. I just know how to counter a sniper, hide/heal at precise time, dodge hard hits etc. Before that, I won against 2 mercs in 258 gear (it was a pvp tournament), and again, I dont even main operative, I just play them cause they are fun to play as a class. So yeah, nerfs arent needed, you just need to get better at your class. I think the only thing I got from this post was nerf operatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) ALL Jugg specs are currently viable in regs. They are actually very good and I play my rage Jugg a lot. But DPS juggs aren’t really solo ranked viable at the moment. They always get focused first (unless there is a PT on the other team) because there is no anti-focus ability. Enraged Defense is pretty useless in Ranked because as soon as you pop it, any good player will stop hitting you. Enraged defense works best in regs because people don’t look at what’s happening. But ED is on a long CD. So when you compare Jugg DCs to other classes passive-active defences and survival abilities like Mara’s, snipers, operatives, assassins, Mercs and Sorcs, then Juggs really are at a disadvantage when they are focused first in solo Ranked The problem is how do you make DPS Juggs viable in solo ranked and not make them OP in regs, which is most likely to happen if Bioware start tinkering around with them. The only thing I can think of is adding a passive utility point to an active ability, but that passive only works in Arena and not 8v8. This is something that could be done to a lot of classes to make them more or less viable in solo ranked. It could also be used to de-tune some of the current classes that are OP in regs by making some of those current passives only work in arena. Under the current class balancing system there will only ever be 4-6 classes/specs viable in solo ranked. This has been the way since Arena was first introduced. It’s literally impossible under the current system to make all 24 specs balanced for ranked and not make some of them OP or UP in 8v8. Even in 8v8 its impossible to make them all balanced because then they aren’t balanced for pve content. Ideally there would be seperate utility trees specifically for pvp and split into 2. One for arena and one for 8v8. That would allow Bioware to balance classes for pve without affecting 8v8 pvp, 4v4 pvp and vis-versa. In the mean time, we just need to accept that the current meta doesn’t favour 18 specs out of the 24 for solo ranked. Maybe some day soon , Bioware will switch the meta around again and give another 6 specs some viability in solo ranked and we can all start arguing how they are OP and other classes need buffs. Edited March 16, 2019 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) I think the only thing I got from this post was nerf operatives. #nerfoperatives since 2013 Edited March 16, 2019 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 But ED is on a long CD. Nothing worse than ED on a long CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyne- Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) Nothing worse than ED on a long CD. Literally laughed my *** off in a restaurant reading this 10/10 Edited March 16, 2019 by Dyne- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 What? Guardians have a focus problem? I thought i was just a sucky player who didn't know my class when I was having this problem. You guys are great, you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 With the utility it's actually pretty great since it reduces CD on leap immensely whenever you're getting attacked, so the CD goes from 11 seconds (since 4 are with the buff) to like 5 or 6. You can also use a hard reset of force leap by using force push, so it's not so bad. Yes it is still terrible. Despite immunity on FC you still get hard stunned all the time which makes it kinda hard to FC anyone. Besides, leaping away is not always an option nor is it always preferable. A buff would make them OP and FOTM since they're already sorta close to it already they just need a little push after all their recently fixes. Juggs also insanely easy to play, which is why it's a preferred nooby class. It is a popular class due to its mostly reactionary DCDs, but it's still a hard class to really excel at. There might be many juggs in SR, but most of them are not contributing much to the match, and they are certainly not OP in any remotely correct understanding of the word. Although it's not like you can't focus some juggs down or net them if you're a merc or have 4 carnage maras using gore constantly I really wouldnt like to see merc 2.0. Nobody want to see juggs as the new merc. It could be done without going overboard. I've pulled 10k dps while being focused in an arena on my veng jugg before so having merc like DcDs would make them terrifying. So you have managed the 248 max theoretical damage for juggs in a SR match while being focused. Right. idontbelieveyou.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACATW Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) Yes it is still terrible. Despite immunity on FC you still get hard stunned all the time which makes it kinda hard to FC anyone. Besides, leaping away is not always an option nor is it always preferable. It is a popular class due to its mostly reactionary DCDs, but it's still a hard class to really excel at. There might be many juggs in SR, but most of them are not contributing much to the match, and they are certainly not OP in any remotely correct understanding of the word. Nobody want to see juggs as the new merc. It could be done without going overboard. So you have managed the 248 max theoretical damage for juggs in a SR match while being focused. Right. idontbelieveyou.jpg This was in my 208s with purple augs and no alacrity, just b/c I was busy experimenting https://i.imgur.com/zWHuRhV.jpg I double stack it by leaping, then mad dash out (normally using two abilities, impale and vicious throw or shatter first), then leap back in. Then force push and stack it again. That's around 12 seconds of stun immunity and damage resistance, not bad really. What? Guardians have a focus problem? I thought i was just a sucky player who didn't know my class when I was having this problem. You guys are great, you know that? @KendraP Admittedly, they sorta do, if you put the best mara, or the best sniper or the best merc against a jugg. Well, the juggs going to die unless the odds are stacked in their favor and by default the odds are normally stacked in the best sniper, merc or mara's favor. Juggs are mid tier, alongside sins and sorcs. That's perfectly fine imo because I don't like the idea of a nooby class similar to merc becoming merc 2.0. As much as I love it. Edited March 16, 2019 by RACATW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) @KendraP Admittedly, they sorta do, if you put the best mara, or the best sniper or the best merc against a jugg. Well, the juggs going to die unless the odds are stacked in their favor and by default the odds are normally stacked in the best sniper, merc or mara's favor. Juggs are mid tier, alongside sins and sorcs. That's perfectly fine imo because I don't like the idea of a nooby class similar to merc becoming merc 2.0. As much as I love it. sarcasm missed eh. i know guardians have a focus problem. As the one-time guild leader of a notorious pvp guild on SS that went defunct because of BW stupidity, I was once among the most hated guardian tanks around. I went dps when I was soloing, and due to the guild tag, attracted everyones attention. back then, i was informed that I had no idea what I was talking about, guardians were as OP as mercs and better than maras or snipers. now apparently I just played a noob class that's too easy to be good. You guys are totally amazing people who make me miss the game (/sarcasm) what changed? I stopped playing so now suddenly the problems came back? Edited March 16, 2019 by KendraP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACATW Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 sarcasm missed eh. i know guardians have a focus problem. As the one-time guild leader of a notorious pvp guild on SS that went defunct because of BW stupidity, I was once among the most hated guardian tanks around. I went dps when I was soloing, and due to the guild tag, attracted everyones attention. back then, i was informed that I had no idea what I was talking about, guardians were as OP as mercs and better than maras or snipers. what changed? I stopped playing so now suddenly the problems came back? I was agreeing w/ your sarcasm, which is why I said admittedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerSchneider Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Imo vengie is the most balanced spec in ranked atm. No bizarre escapes, no god-mode, you run out of DCDs and die, but it takes time. The worst game for it is 4 dps, and yet sometimes it's a pain to kill a smart jugg. Rage though is still terrible, and has to be reworked (right now it's just a poor man's fury mara) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 This was in my 208s with purple augs and no alacrity, just b/c I was busy experimenting https://i.imgur.com/zWHuRhV.jpg I double stack it by leaping, then mad dash out (normally using two abilities, impale and vicious throw or shatter first), then leap back in. Then force push and stack it again. That's around 12 seconds of stun immunity and damage resistance, not bad really. Nice damage, don't get me wrong, but that was clearly a healer / tank match, possibly even a group ranked match. Veng juggs are outright requested for such fights, and not at all what I am talking about. Do this as a regular thing in pure 4 v 4 dps fight and I will shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Imo vengie is the most balanced spec in ranked atm. No bizarre escapes, no god-mode, you run out of DCDs and die, but it takes time. The worst game for it is 4 dps, and yet sometimes it's a pain to kill a smart jugg. Rage though is still terrible, and has to be reworked (right now it's just a poor man's fury mara) oh now we're agreeing with me on this too? i've been saying vigi was the better spec and focus was a crappier concentration for literal years. everyone told me i was a crappy noob who didn't know what i was off about. now suddenly i'm right huh? i totally miss this game now all because you guys are such awesome people (/sarcasm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowRuunkILL Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Not that I don't appreciate the sarcasm, but my post was actually a serious inquiry. I've no problem with Juggs dying when focused by 3 or 4 people. The problem is dying faster than range dps classes and marauders under the same intensity of focus fire when the class is called *Juggernaut*. Juggernaut is fine in solo ranked and taking focus, you need to learn how to use your dcds properly and los. I cannot stress this enough. When being focused by two Mara's or three mercs you need to los them so your teammates can kill them. However it is unfortunate that Bioware doesn't do anything about the bad players queuing solo ranked. They need to make a warning for players to not queue if you are not familiar with how the class works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Juggernaut is fine in solo ranked and taking focus, you need to learn how to use your dcds properly and los. I cannot stress this enough. When being focused by two Mara's or three mercs you need to los them so your teammates can kill them. However it is unfortunate that Bioware doesn't do anything about the bad players queuing solo ranked. They need to make a warning for players to not queue if you are not familiar with how the class works. I don't play a jugg, so I have no bias here, but your comment is just plainly wrong. Juggs are easier to focus and kill than any other class except PT. And yes, good dps juggs can kite a certain amount to mitigate some damage, but they cannot do damage themselves while kiting, and they will still die quickly if pursued. Every other class (other than PT) can survive better than juggs. Sure, dps juggs are playable, and if you're good you can win games, but they are still the second worst pvp class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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