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PvP Tanking for Dummies (5.7)


kissingaiur

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Yeah it makes no sense. It actually was a surprise to me that it works this way. It's not intuitive at all, the only way to know how it works if by literally testing.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I see little indication that the 5% damage reduction wouldn't work in pvp when the reading the tooltip. The base effect of guard is 5% damage reduced and 25% threath reduced, with an additional 50% damage transfer in PvP when within 15 meters. The only thing I find really odd is that the 5% is reduced before the damage is split, even though all other forms of mitigation (and even the accuracy vs defense and crit/shield roll!) happen after the damage has been split, that just seems inconsistent to me.

Edited by AdjeYo
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I just tested this with my friend. He guarded me, then he lacerated/removed guard in the next GCD at the same time. This was with a 0 ability action queue. It doesn't look like it's bugged to me.

 

I think there might be an issue with you queuing multiple abilities in the ability queue or not clicking fast enough?

 

Hmm. I changed my queue time to 0, and I still get the same behavior. Maybe it's some other setting. I don't think it's slow keypress speed, since I can pretty clearly see it "stop" the GCD progress bar animation as soon as I try to remove the guard.

 

But as I typed earlier, I'm not sure in the grand scheme of tanking, that it's such a big deal. I might see if I can figure out what setting while I'm waiting for queue pops or something. Or, I did this final testing by guarding NPC's on fleet. Maybe that also works different for some reason.

 

[EDIT: Ok, I tested this a bit more in a WZ. Removing guard doesn't seem to activate the GCD. So if I remove guard first, then I can immediately do another ability. But I still can't remove guard while the GCD is, well, cooling down. I don't know how to do 2 abilities at exactly the same time. As far as I know how to do things, you still have to do one then the other. So maybe your friend did the guard remove first? ]

Edited by Banderal
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Hmm. I changed my queue time to 0, and I still get the same behavior. Maybe it's some other setting. I don't think it's slow keypress speed, since I can pretty clearly see it "stop" the GCD progress bar animation as soon as I try to remove the guard.

 

But as I typed earlier, I'm not sure in the grand scheme of tanking, that it's such a big deal. I might see if I can figure out what setting while I'm waiting for queue pops or something. Or, I did this final testing by guarding NPC's on fleet. Maybe that also works different for some reason.

 

[EDIT: Ok, I tested this a bit more in a WZ. Removing guard doesn't seem to activate the GCD. So if I remove guard first, then I can immediately do another ability. But I still can't remove guard while the GCD is, well, cooling down. I don't know how to do 2 abilities at exactly the same time. As far as I know how to do things, you still have to do one then the other. So maybe your friend did the guard remove first? ]

 

No you actually are correct. I was wrong (I think I was slightly confused on what you were asking).

 

I understand now. You cannot remove guard in the middle of a GCD even when it's technically off the GCD. This seem like an oversight in the mechanics or a bug. Thanks for pointing this out.I will make sure to note this in the guide.

 

Sorry for the confusion!

 

Ps- I would still recommend you run at most .25 ability action queue. :p

Edited by kissingaiur
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Sorry for the confusion!

No worries. Much respect for this guide. I've tanked since almost the start of my PvP life, and you still know way more than me after you "just started". :D

 

Ps- I would still recommend you run at most .25 ability action queue. :p

 

I'm curious why a lower queue setting is better. Is it as I was thinking, where if I get something queued up at the .5 second mark, then I can't change it at the .25 second mark in response to an enemy action? (Actually, I would have assumed that the game would take whatever the LAST thing was I hit before the GCD expired, but maybe not.) Or is there something else going on that I'm not seeing?

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I'm curious why a lower queue setting is better. Is it as I was thinking, where if I get something queued up at the .5 second mark, then I can't change it at the .25 second mark in response to an enemy action? (Actually, I would have assumed that the game would take whatever the LAST thing was I hit before the GCD expired, but maybe not.) Or is there something else going on that I'm not seeing?

 

Well. I think it depends how spammy you are with your abilities and how fast you change your mind. For me on medicine its really mechanical and I like to spam a lot and adjust my input on the fly. If you have high reaction time and can use all your GCDs well you should always go 0 or .25. Personally I feel like .5 is too high because sometimes you do change your mind and you tend to do 2 things in a row but wanted to change it but now can't. When I had a .5 I tend to double click HoTs all the time or double rolling by mistake. I hated that.

 

I feel like .25 gives you less of an opportunity to mess up and easier to change your mind. The only situation I would suggest a higher action queue would be players who struggle with using abilities quickly on time with GCDs or struggle with high ping.

Edited by kissingaiur
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Hi, guys!

 

We’ve made some corrections based on your feedback and our subsequent testing:

 

 

  • Utility images for Juggernaut and Guardian now contain the correct icons for Hardened Defense/Stalwart Defense.
  • First note under Guard subsection correctly states that Guarded targets benefit from 5% DR.
  • Added note to clarify that tanks can parry melee and ranged attacks redirected via Guard.
  • Updated descriptions for Invicible/Warding Call, Deflection/Deflection and Energy Shield/Reactive Shield (re. additive/multiplicative DR, etc.).

 

Thanks so much for all your comments and input. I’m glad people seem to be finding the guide useful!

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Overall pretty solid start. Only a few minor omissions/oversights (endure pain 5% dr internal / elemental & medpack usage) , aegis assault also increases shield absorb, intimidating roar reduces their damage by 15% after effect ends, smash increases force scream damage by 40% (plus an accuracy debuff). Force scream is still important, but from a solely offensive perspective I usually use smash first. Defensively, force scream is good for only yourself (obviously that matters sometimes).

 

I was pretty sure crits rolled seperately against targets under guard vs yourself, along with shield/defense applying still but maybe the research about it in the past is incorrect along with a designer apparently saying it works even if the blog is down now, on purely anecdotal evidence I feel like I've seen it roll separately before.

 

 

Here's the quote:

TankingTOR:

When we guard another character 50% of the damage is transferred back to us. How is the damage we take calculated? Is it mitigated on the target first and we get a flat 50% of their damage, or is it unmitigated initially, transferred to us, then mitigated by our gear? Does our shield have any effect on this damage?

 

Austin: When a player attacks an ally that you are guarding, that player’s attack is split. The damage dealt is halved, with one half going to you and the other half going to your guarded ally. These two attacks are treated separately and individually; each of you applies your own avoidance and mitigation to the incoming attack. This does include all available avenues of survivability, with shields being no exception.

 

Also mentioning the two-roll system couldn't hurt.

 

edit: Whoops I see you're noting that about tanks defending/absorbing now. I was writing this slowly out while away from home now and then over the course of the day.

Edited by RACATW
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Overall pretty solid start. Only a few minor omissions/oversights (endure pain 5% dr internal / elemental & medpack usage) , aegis assault also increases shield absorb, intimidating roar reduces their damage by 15% after effect ends, smash increases force scream damage by 40% (plus an accuracy debuff). Force scream is still important, but from a solely offensive perspective I usually use smash first. Defensively, force scream is good for only yourself (obviously that matters sometimes).

 

 

I'm sure there is little things we missed within the abilities and passives but I hope players are able to read them for themselves. The main idea we were going for was put the basic information about abilities and utilities and not overwhelm players with tidbits. I am hoping if players are interested in tanking they will advance further than the information this guide provides.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

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The key to tanking in PvP is to tunnel the opposing tank, ignore your swaps, and always flamesweep on cooldown.

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

Also if you guys enjoy this guide, if you don't mind please vote quality of the content at the bottom of the page. If you all enjoy guides like these I would be happy to do more in the future :).

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Great guide guys :) thanks for sharing all the info and helping out the community!

 

Certainly helpful for tanks and others and glad that you willing to update as well.

 

Just noticed something recently, normally played Vanguard tank but when tried Pt it seemed to allow me to output higher dps. Seems that flame sweep is much easier to aim and animation allows to move in the air while channeling, possibly affecting bigger area and allowing to adjust direction. Can’t do that with Vanguards equivalent. Is it possible or just my imagination since I haven’t really played Pt before ?

Same appears to apply to carbonize.

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The description of Saber Ward contains an interesting line.

Saber Ward is ideally used when tank tunneled because it grants 100% dodge chance for its first 5 seconds with Blade Turning and the Immortal set bonus and 50% increased dodge chance for the remainder. This will not mitigate collateral AoE damage or damage taken through Guard.

Now we've been over guard and defense, so I guess that still needs to get updated, but no mitigation for collateral AoE damage? I'm pretty sure defense chance works just the same against AoE damage as it does against single target damage.

Edited by AdjeYo
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The description of Saber Ward contains an interesting line.

 

Now we've been over guard and defense, so I guess that still needs to get updated, but no mitigation for collateral AoE damage? I'm pretty sure defense chance works just the same against AoE damage as it does against single target damage.

 

Sorry, I think it was edited out (it was reworded from the draft to the original). Thanks for the catch.

Edited by kissingaiur
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Dummy tank here :).

 

In regards to gearing, do we stack endurance armorings and mods and power/crit enhancements, ignoring absorb rating, shield rating, and defense? What are the stat goals?

 

Also a general question about PVP level 10-69? Do the stats on gear matter at all or is it just important to have each slot filled?

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Dummy tank here :).

 

In regards to gearing, do we stack endurance armorings and mods and power/crit enhancements, ignoring absorb rating, shield rating, and defense? What are the stat goals?

 

Also a general question about PVP level 10-69? Do the stats on gear matter at all or is it just important to have each slot filled?

 

I talked to some ranked tanks and I have been told that there isn't really one optimal way to build (hence why we chose to leave it out of the guide). All I can say for a fact is that the meta does lean more for tanks to be wearing more DPS oriented gear to optimize the amount of pressure they can produce while also trying to support their allies. So keeping in line with the current meta, I would suggest building with critical rating/alacrity/master. Defensive stats in pvp are not used often currently but I know for a fact good tanks still have a mitigation/high endurance set just in case situations arise such as they are being tanked tunneled.

 

I hope that helps.

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I talked to some ranked tanks and I have been told that there isn't really one optimal way to build (hence why we chose to leave it out of the guide). All I can say for a fact is that the meta does lean more for tanks to be wearing more DPS oriented gear to optimize the amount of pressure they can produce while also trying to support their allies. So keeping in line with the current meta, I would suggest building with critical rating/alacrity/master. Defensive stats in pvp are not used often currently but I know for a fact good tanks still have a mitigation/high endurance set just in case situations arise such as they are being tanked tunneled.

 

I hope that helps.

 

I'm surprised about alacrity. I was just playing my Jedi Guardian tank (I generally stink at the melee classes, but as a tank, I was doing OK on this one in my standard PVE gear with all the defensive stats on the gear). Other than Blade Barrage, there isn't any channeled ability I can think of that would benefit from alacrity.

 

Also, if you could answer the second part of my question about whether stats on your gear in level 10-69 PVP matter at all, that would be helpful. Deciding if I want to regear my tanks.

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Dummy tank here :).

 

In regards to gearing, do we stack endurance armorings and mods and power/crit enhancements, ignoring absorb rating, shield rating, and defense? What are the stat goals?

 

Also a general question about PVP level 10-69? Do the stats on gear matter at all or is it just important to have each slot filled?

 

My personal advice is to try and maximize endurance (so augment for endurance and get b mods) and for enhancements get critical ones, you might want some alacrity but I really don't find it needed. That said some people seems to do really well just building purely on dps, so getting a good amount of crit and alacrity and not stacking endurance, it's really up to you in the end. The only thing you should definitely do is make sure to have a shield equipped, getting a focus just isn't worth it.

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My personal advice is to try and maximize endurance (so augment for endurance and get b mods) and for enhancements get critical ones, you might want some alacrity but I really don't find it needed. That said some people seems to do really well just building purely on dps, so getting a good amount of crit and alacrity and not stacking endurance, it's really up to you in the end. The only thing you should definitely do is make sure to have a shield equipped, getting a focus just isn't worth it.

 

Seconded. I go high endurance with crit and alac and a shield. The extra endurance is something I find very useful.

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I'm surprised about alacrity. I was just playing my Jedi Guardian tank (I generally stink at the melee classes, but as a tank, I was doing OK on this one in my standard PVE gear with all the defensive stats on the gear). Other than Blade Barrage, there isn't any channeled ability I can think of that would benefit from alacrity.

 

Also, if you could answer the second part of my question about whether stats on your gear in level 10-69 PVP matter at all, that would be helpful. Deciding if I want to regear my tanks.

 

Channels aren't the only thing that benefit from alacrity. Your global cooldown (so how many actions per minute you can do) also decreases with more alacrity.

 

If you are clicking, it probably doesn't make a huge difference since you won't be able to do as many regardless, but if you keybind alacrity is definitely a plus for anything even a tank (at least in pvp, not worth giving up mitigation in ops normally lol).

 

Don't worry about gearing as you level. Just put whatever in, other than accuracy, and you'll be fine (it is just not worth it to spend the time and money to min-max for lowbies, especially since everything you put on will be bolstered). If you have to have an answer, pick whatever is highest endurance. After that, I would use crit/alacrity if you are only playing solo, but if you do fps and whatnot, I would pick up shield/absorb (so people don't yell at you for gearing wrong lol).

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 year later...

Just wanted to add my gratitude to this thread. Love the guide but I am curious if there is a more up to date version of the guide I am not aware of? The version I am looking at seems a bit out of date as the utilities have changed. Is there a newer version i am not aware of?

 

Thanks regardless... /bow.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Just wanted to add my gratitude to this thread. Love the guide but I am curious if there is a more up to date version of the guide I am not aware of? The version I am looking at seems a bit out of date as the utilities have changed. Is there a newer version i am not aware of?

 

Thanks regardless... /bow.

 

I would like to second this. I've tanked reggie WZs for a little while with moderate success, but would like to step up to the big leagues soon and haven't found an up-to-date guide for PvP tanking. I know there were some recent changes (mostly to tank damage, if I'm not mistaken).

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Just hit 70 a few days ago and am looking for a PvP/endgame/PvE guild with a discord to game with! In game name is Palatial on Empire (Sith Inquisitor) Discord name is twitch.tv/KRSibby#6721 I am also a streamer and would stream raids/pvp matches and most likely post some on my youtube channel.
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