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Queuing pub side is painful lol.


Raansu

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Can't wait for cross faction so the imps can share the pain with me lol.

 

And here is the real reason why everyone cried about cross faction... because reps need to be carried. Rip swtor 2011-2018

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When was needed to win to do daily/weekly i spend month or more to close dat on rep side. Played on rep side almost 4 years - it was a show.

But nowdays they just stack healers + jug skank and thats all. With the new changes shield/absorb mmmmmm i feel zero kills in the air, so gut. :rolleyes:

Edited by helpmewin
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When was needed to win to do daily/weekly i spend month or more to close dat on rep side. Played on rep side almost 4 years - it was a show.

But nowdays they just stack healers + jug skank and thats all. With the new changes shield/absorb mmmmmm i feel zero kills in the air, so gut. :rolleyes:

 

You know the changes also limit the maximal number of T+H per team, right? True, a duo of a tank+healer will take more time and skill to kill, but there will be a limited amount of them.

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Rip swtor 2011-2018

 

There is far more to this game than PVP, and there is far more to PVP than the "rep" vs "imp" roleplaying side of it. It IS called PVP, not RVI (or IVR). Most players play PVP to play competitive objective games versus other real players and/or defeat other players in combat. Those who want to primarily feel the Rep VS Imp would probably be more focused on the class stories or main planetary stories. Even those who enjoy the faction aspect of PVP play it primarily to fight other players (else, as I said, they would be playing more single-player content). I don't believe 1% of the PVP player base would choose a degradation in matchmaking, pop times and balance other a degradation in the lore of PVP, which is completely non-critical, and frankly, never truly existed. Opposing factions would never play "huttball", and voidstar would have been always one sided with the republic attacking and the empire defending if we would be true to the lore. [in battlefront, for example, the imps would never get to blow the death star while the rebels defend it. Matches there are one sides, and one would say even unfair in favor of a certain team. How can they afford such faction imparity, by the way? Because PVP queues there are completely factionless. You become the faction of your team, not form a team of your faction]

 

I said it before when it was still in argument, but even if some players feel "patriotic" when they queue for a PVP match and do so to crush the opposing faction, most of their enemies and allies probably don't feel like that and practically play the faction they play because their guild is there / they like the abilities better / they like the story / they just happened to log that toon but actually play both sides equally. There is no real THEM and US and it is unrealistic to look at it as if "the weak reps asked for cross-faction to get better". These "weak reps" might be the "superior imps" which are carrying you in other matches, who finished their weekly already and now want to play some rep PVP, and they asked for cross-faction to get pops on rep side rather than sit and wait while the imps get "practice matches" all the time.

 

Many players play both factions. Many players couldn't care less which faction they are actively playing, and the only reason they play whichever is that one can't be factionless. If pop times were not an issue, I am sure it would be the same amount of players rolling mercs and mandos (among those who do it for the sake of PVP alone) and the only factors would be where their premade friends are, and in case there are no such friends, a mental coin toss.

 

By the way, given that the OP is not a new player but complains only now, I suspect he also plays Imp sometimes. Is he a PVP loser who needs carriage only as he logs a rep. Does that mean people have alter-egos depending on the character they are currently playing? :rolleyes:

Edited by Rafiknoll
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There is far more to this game than PVP, and there is far more to PVP than the "rep" vs "imp" roleplaying side of it. It IS called PVP, not RVI (or IVR). Most players play PVP to play competitive objective games versus other real players and/or defeat other players in combat. Those who want to primarily feel the Rep VS Imp would probably be more focused on the class stories or main planetary stories. Even those who enjoy the faction aspect of PVP play it primarily to fight other players (else, as I said, they would be playing more single-player content). I don't believe 1% of the PVP player base would choose a degradation in matchmaking, pop times and balance other a degradation in the lore of PVP, which is completely non-critical, and frankly, never truly existed. Opposing factions would never play "huttball", and voidstar would have been always one sided with the republic attacking and the empire defending if we would be true to the lore. [in battlefront, for example, the imps would never get to blow the death star while the rebels defend it. Matches there are one sides, and one would say even unfair in favor of a certain team. How can they afford such faction imparity, by the way? Because PVP queues there are completely factionless. You become the faction of your team, not form a team of your faction]

 

I said it before when it was still in argument, but even if some players feel "patriotic" when they queue for a PVP match and do so to crush the opposing faction, most of their enemies and allies probably don't feel like that and practically play the faction they play because their guild is there / they like the abilities better / they like the story / they just happened to log that toon but actually play both sides equally. There is no real THEM and US and it is unrealistic to look at it as if "the weak reps asked for cross-faction to get better". These "weak reps" might be the "superior imps" which are carrying you in other matches, who finished their weekly already and now want to play some rep PVP, and they asked for cross-faction to get pops on rep side rather than sit and wait while the imps get "practice matches" all the time.

 

Many players play both factions. Many players couldn't care less which faction they are actively playing, and the only reason they play whichever is that one can't be factionless. If pop times were not an issue, I am sure it would be the same amount of players rolling mercs and mandos (among those who do it for the sake of PVP alone) and the only factors would be where their premade friends are, and in case there are no such friends, a mental coin toss.

 

By the way, given that the OP is not a new player but complains only now, I suspect he also plays Imp sometimes. Is he a PVP loser who needs carriage only as he logs a rep. Does that mean people have alter-egos depending on the character they are currently playing? :rolleyes:

 

If you have listened what darth marr says at the start of all voidstar messages you would see the logic of it. But you are obviously not an active pvp player. In any case you dont know how many real players wants this game to be lore based. Those who cry on forums are the minority, and while the quantity of players who support cross faction is bigger, the number of players who wants lore (esp in swtor where lore has much more value than even in wow since we had tones of nice videos and strict plot of war between sith and reps) is bigger than you think. Regardless, the game which spent so much resources on story and lore yet cant afford to logically continue it in all aspects of the game is going to die soon. It becomes obvious that swtor cant afford to sustain everything it created at the begining, and we wont have those days when reps fought against imps. Lets wait for a new swtor mmo since this one is definitely a fail project.

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You know the changes also limit the maximal number of T+H per team, right? True, a duo of a tank+healer will take more time and skill to kill, but there will be a limited amount of them.

 

Do u like nowdays tanks+ heals matches? Me not. Even if they will limited its just not fun at all. DPS race and nothing more. AOE spam - cap spam, spam spam PVE rotation, arenas - DCD-race.

To be fair, if peoples like new swtor - i don't care. Peoples enjoy, get fun or idk. I'm playing swtor coz waiting WoW pre-patch/new expansion, there is nothing to do there. But what i actually see here is no changes in general for this game coming. Maybe 6.0 - who knows. People asked this about 4-5 years ago - matchmaking and cross-faction.

Edited by helpmewin
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And here is the real reason why everyone cried about cross faction... because reps need to be carried. Rip swtor 2011-2018

 

I get my lore from pve. I don't give a damn about lore in pvp, especially since when I queue imp side the majority of my matches are imp vs imp anyways. All I care about is having real matchmaking and balanced matches. Factions are the last thing on my mind when I'm in a pvp match. Or do you really think a bunch of Jedi would willingly play huttball? Like seriously, get out.

 

I win like 4/5 matches playing pub side on Satele Shan. Roll on a better server, perhaps?

 

When? In the middle of the night when all the imps go to bed? lawl. I play on SS and SF and pubs are trash on both. There is no "better" server. PvP is the same on both.

 

Solo queing is a pain, any side.

 

Its significantly better on imp side. I burned through my weekly today on my pub. Lost every match. Went over imp side, lost some, but won more than lost and they weren't always complete blowouts.

Edited by Raansu
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I get my lore from pve. I don't give a damn about lore in pvp, especially since when I queue imp side the majority of my matches are imp vs imp anyways. All I care about is having real matchmaking and balanced matches. Factions are the last thing on my mind when I'm in a pvp match. Or do you really think a bunch of Jedi would willingly play huttball? Like seriously, get out.

 

 

 

When? In the middle of the night when all the imps go to bed? lawl. I play on SS and SF and pubs are trash on both. There is no "better" server. PvP is the same on both.

 

 

He is right, dude...good luck.

 

I find it very sad that I will teamed up with those bads from rep side.... I mean they are trash most of them. On Darth Malgus they have some good people queing, but 80% of them are PVE monks and clickers/keyboard turners who get insant killed with full blown 248 gear. So much for gear matters...

 

They implemented cross faction for the sole reason of keeping the ques going because there is a noticeable decline in population now on every server, which could hurt the pops soon. I mean yesterday I've had games where 1 dude quit half way and we got no replacement.. Now that's not a good sign. ;)

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If you have listened what darth marr says at the start of all voidstar messages you would see the logic of it. But you are obviously not an active pvp player.

 

You need to relearn the "cause and effect" thing. I am an active PVP player, but like the majority of players, [sit down because the following might shock you:] I skip the cutscene of the beginnings of voidstar and Novare (I don't even remember if other maps have any cutscenes), and I don't pay much attention to whatever the announcer says before the match begins unless it is a huttball in which it has a small sense of humor. I know the theory of the lore but I don't care about it as I play, and the majority of players queue PVP with the same intentions and priority.

 

In any case you dont know how many real players wants this game to be lore based. Those who cry on forums are the minority, and while the quantity of players who support cross faction is bigger, the number of players who wants lore (esp in swtor where lore has much more value than even in wow since we had tones of nice videos and strict plot of war between sith and reps) is bigger than you think.

 

I know there is a lot of interest in lore, but most players don't look for it in PVP and even among those who do, the majority would never prioritize it over pop times and matchmaking.

 

Regardless, the game which spent so much resources on story and lore yet cant afford to logically continue it in all aspects of the game is going to die soon. It becomes obvious that swtor cant afford to sustain everything it created at the begining, and we wont have those days when reps fought against imps. Lets wait for a new swtor mmo since this one is definitely a fail project.

 

The door is always open, but these PVP changes are mostly welcomed by the playerbase. I know some players left, but ultimately (if the matchmaking works) it will prevent more leaves than keeping the lore would, and some players might as well return.

 

They implemented cross faction for the sole reason of keeping the ques going because there is a noticeable decline in population now on every server, which could hurt the pops soon. I mean yesterday I've had games where 1 dude quit half way and we got no replacement.. Now that's not a good sign. ;)

 

This is one half. The other half is that matchmaking is worthless without cross-faction, because one faction might have the better players and roles in queue at a certain time.

 

About the lack of backfilling, there are supposed to be certain points in which the backfilling is disabled completely, though I am not sure what they are. I am almost certain, for example, that your ACW match is out of the backfilling queue once a team reached 300 (of course, if someone answers a pop that came up when it was 310 in the last second of the timer he might get in to see 150 points), and also, while I know backfilling tries to pop for more than one player in GSF (first to click is first to get, and the other guy gets a message that the match is no longer available and returns to the top of the queue), I have never encountered that mechanic in ground PVP, which means your designated backfiller was AFK, made you lose 2 precious minutes, and then it was simply to late to re-enter the queue. Either or both reasons are probably why you didn't get a backfill.

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Here is my observation of PvPing for years across multiple servers and factions.

 

Both factions have an equal amount of skilled players. Lets just say 300 Silver+ equivalent players queue per faction per day.

 

Its the medium to unskilled players that dilute the faction skill level. On that same day imps will have 900 mediocre players and 100 newbies. While the pubs will have 100 mediocre players and 900 newbies.

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Here is my observation of PvPing for years across multiple servers and factions.

 

Both factions have an equal amount of skilled players. Lets just say 300 Silver+ equivalent players queue per faction per day.

 

Its the medium to unskilled players that dilute the faction skill level. On that same day imps will have 900 mediocre players and 100 newbies. While the pubs will have 100 mediocre players and 900 newbies.

 

You started on the right track, but here’s the problem with that anology.

 

There are way more Imps players in general or Imps in the queue. At certain times of the day I believe it’s higher than 4:1.

 

So even if we were to use your numbers, which I think is wrong because as a percentage of population, there are just as many good/mediocre reps vs good/mediocre Imps as a percentage (not total numbers)

 

But let’s use your numbers for a second vs faction numbers in the queue. At 4:1 in favour of Imps it looks like this.

1000 Imps = 900 mediocre players and 100 newbies

250 reps = 25 mediocre players 225 newbies.

I’m sure you can see how that looks. Basically you are saying there are only 25 mediocre reps online.

Now, let’s consider that those numbers aren’t anywhere remotely close to how many people are in the queue. It’s more like 80 Imps and 20 reps. That means 2 mediocre reps on at once and 72 mediocre Imps are on at once, which in my experience is not even close.

There are always a heap of newbie or noob Imps on. This should be apparent when you play Imp vs Imp and stomp them into the ground, match after match.

 

What you should consider is the percentages of good/mediocre vs new/noobs. Which in my experience is exaclty the same for both factions. It’s the amount of people in the queue that skew the perception about how good reps are,

 

The real situation is there are probably between 10-20% good Imps on at the same time. Which means 8-16 Imps with some skills. Lots of these guys know each other and queue dodge, requeue until they see the right people or premade with them.

 

It’s no different for the reps. There is the same “percentage” of good/mediocre vs new/noobs. But with far less people in the queue, the number of those is distorted.10-20% good reps is still only 2 players vs 18 noob players.

That means “if” a team is really lucky, the best they can hope for is 2 people with any skill.

The reality is, it’s usually only ever 1 skilled player on the team. But say they do get together, those 2 players can’t even premade with another 2 or queue dodge or requeue to get better people. which means they will always have more noobs on their team than skilled players.

 

The same cannot be said for the Imps who quiet often have 3-4 skilled players on each team.

I’m sure you would agree that 1-2 players should not be able to carry 6-7 noobs against 3-4 players skilled players.

 

The problem is first and foremost the populations of the different factions. But once cross faction is fully implemented, that will no longer be the problem and I think people will see that there are just as many good reps out there vs noob reps as there are good Imps vs noob Imps.

 

You also have to consider how many people play both factions and how many of them are good? Lots of players swap back and forth depending who is in the queue or how many are in the queue. With cross faction, people won’t need to do this and I think you will actually see people play the faction they prefer over the one they play to get better pops.

Hence, I expect you will start too see more people playing reps classes in crossfaction pvp than see playing on them at the moment.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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You need to relearn the "cause and effect" thing. I am an active PVP player, but like the majority of players, [sit down because the following might shock you:] I skip the cutscene of the beginnings of voidstar and Novare (I don't even remember if other maps have any cutscenes), and I don't pay much attention to whatever the announcer says before the match begins unless it is a huttball in which it has a small sense of humor. I know the theory of the lore but I don't care about it as I play, and the majority of players queue PVP with the same intentions and priority.

 

 

 

I know there is a lot of interest in lore, but most players don't look for it in PVP and even among those who do, the majority would never prioritize it over pop times and matchmaking.

 

 

 

The door is always open, but these PVP changes are mostly welcomed by the playerbase. I know some players left, but ultimately (if the matchmaking works) it will prevent more leaves than keeping the lore would, and some players might as well return.

 

 

 

This is one half. The other half is that matchmaking is worthless without cross-faction, because one faction might have the better players and roles in queue at a certain time.

 

About the lack of backfilling, there are supposed to be certain points in which the backfilling is disabled completely, though I am not sure what they are. I am almost certain, for example, that your ACW match is out of the backfilling queue once a team reached 300 (of course, if someone answers a pop that came up when it was 310 in the last second of the timer he might get in to see 150 points), and also, while I know backfilling tries to pop for more than one player in GSF (first to click is first to get, and the other guy gets a message that the match is no longer available and returns to the top of the queue), I have never encountered that mechanic in ground PVP, which means your designated backfiller was AFK, made you lose 2 precious minutes, and then it was simply to late to re-enter the queue. Either or both reasons are probably why you didn't get a backfill.

 

Players left because of other major problems (poor rewards for ranked, wintraders/decliners/char swappers in rankec, weak pve, lack of new big expansions, buggs, no new classes etc.). Better Matchmaking wont return even 2% of all player base which left because of major reasons. Cross faction makes pvp look dumb and senseless for many people and even if personally for you lore doesnt matter you must admit that lore in swtor means much more than in gw2, wow and other mmo. Tbh, swtor attracted so many people just thx to lore aspects of the game (sw cinematics and trailers, star wars atmosphere, force/lightsabers, republic troopers etc). If it wasn't for star wars lore/atmosphere this game would be closed in the end of 2013 when most of its player base just quitted. Pure pvp always sucked in this game: overpowered opers running/ rolling with balls in a few seconds while other classes get recked much easier, Dsync which wasnt fixed since this game was opened, hackers/cheaters which captured bases before start or moved through walls with the ball, skank tanks which causing big damage and saving everyone from death with overpowered guard (never saw any mmo where tanks could transfer 50% damage from guarded target) etc.

 

Lore and star wars atmosphere is all this game has. All other in swtor is much worse compared to other mmo games

Edited by omaan
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Players left because of other major problems (poor rewards for ranked, wintraders/decliners/char swappers in rankec, weak pve, lack of new big expansions, buggs, no new classes etc.). Better Matchmaking wont return even 2% of all player base which left because of major reasons.

 

No disagreement there yet. What I was saying is more players who play SWTOR only for PVP left due to imbalance, pop times and that kind of stuff rather than because of the pending cross-faction.

 

Cross faction makes pvp look dumb and senseless for many people and even if personally for you lore doesnt matter you must admit that lore in swtor means much more than in gw2, wow and other mmo.

 

I will break this one down to parts and respond to each:

"Cross faction makes pvp look dumb and senseless" - not at all, not more than the fact that mortal enemies play huttball versus one another.

"for many people" - I haven't seen 5 people say it yet, not about the PVP aspect, not when it is either that or matchmaking.

"even if personally for you lore doesn't matter" - it does matter to me in the game in general, and it adds to PVP too, but I would never prioritize it other PVP balance and matchmaking.

"you must admit that lore in swtor means much more than in gw2, wow and other mmo." - certainly, not argument here.

 

Pure pvp always sucked in this game: overpowered opers running/ rolling with balls in a few seconds while other classes get recked much easier, Dsync which wasn't fixed since this game was opened, hackers/cheaters which captured bases before start or moved through walls with the ball, skank tanks which causing big damage and saving everyone from death with overpowered guard (never saw any mmo where tanks could transfer 50% damage from guarded target) etc.

 

If PVP is so terrible, even lore would not be enough of a reason to play it. Don't tell me you truly queue PVP, knowing it will probably completely suck gameplay-wise for you because you will either be carried by your team which is composed of OP classes or lose to the other team which is composed of OP classes, just to feel the "thrill" of fighting the republic. If this is honestly how you feel about the gameplay of PVP, I don't understand why don't you find the PVE contents of this game far more intriguing.

And anyway, regardless of the current situation, now they want to make the PVP situation here better at the cost of some lore value, which affects PVP only and leaves all the other lore stuff that players who play for lore play. Saying (in other words) that "since the primary function of PVP is broken, don't fix it if it harms the welcome secondary/tertiary function" is simply a mix of priorites. Most PVPers queue to have fair chances to play, not to join a bad match in a bad game, just to feel "patriotic" to their faction.

 

About this final ccomparions to other MMOs "never saw any mmo where tanks could transfer 50% damage from guarded target", I never saw any MMO in which resolve exists to keep 8 people from stun locking a player indefinitely, which is actually a very good idea. I also never saw an MMO which has such a fun space-combat system (GSF), which is mostly not buggy, well designed and fun, and as a mere unrelated side activity. That is some serious investment [Far better than both battlefront's starfighters]. This game is different, not worse. If you don't like the ways it is different than other games, you can pay them subscription instead.

 

Lore and star wars atmosphere is all this game has. All other in swtor is much worse compared to other mmo games

 

See above.

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Players left because of other major problems (poor rewards for ranked, wintraders/decliners/char swappers in rankec, weak pve, lack of new big expansions, buggs, no new classes etc.). Better Matchmaking wont return even 2% of all player base which left because of major reasons. Cross faction makes pvp look dumb and senseless for many people and even if personally for you lore doesnt matter you must admit that lore in swtor means much more than in gw2, wow and other mmo. Tbh, swtor attracted so many people just thx to lore aspects of the game (sw cinematics and trailers, star wars atmosphere, force/lightsabers, republic troopers etc). If it wasn't for star wars lore/atmosphere this game would be closed in the end of 2013 when most of its player base just quitted. Pure pvp always sucked in this game: overpowered opers running/ rolling with balls in a few seconds while other classes get recked much easier, Dsync which wasnt fixed since this game was opened, hackers/cheaters which captured bases before start or moved through walls with the ball, skank tanks which causing big damage and saving everyone from death with overpowered guard (never saw any mmo where tanks could transfer 50% damage from guarded target) etc.

 

Lore and star wars atmosphere is all this game has. All other in swtor is much worse compared to other mmo games

 

There is a moment in time players have to be realistic and understand that to have competitive pvp in a game where population is suffering, lore aspects have to be sacrificed for pvp balance. Cross faction is a great way to fix the population issues that both factions suffer from server to server. You cannot have proper matchmaking unless the pool of players is larger enough to make competitive teams. Majority of all pvpers would rather want balanced teams then playing through the ****-show we have to crawl through now. As a long time pvper it really makes me extremely happy for what they are doing with pvp. Cross faction will fix a lot of issues in regular warzones and also help with exploiters in ranked.

 

I'm sorry your personal opinion is that lore should be the main aspect of pvp but I rather want fun, balanced and competitive games when i click the queue button for pvp. You have to understand on some level how more important that is than maintaining one aspect of the "lore".

Edited by kissingaiur
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And here is the real reason why everyone cried about cross faction... because reps need to be carried. Rip swtor 2011-2018

 

You are completely correct for 1 reason and 1 reason only: IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR PLAYERS TO LOG OUT, AND LOG IN A CHARACTER ON THE OPPOSITE FACTION.

 

Oh, wait, there is nothing stopping players from doing that. Ok, you are completely wrong.

 

Imps frankly are watered down because those who want an easy time of pvp go there. Only hard core PvPers will try pub side currently, and those few who can dominate as pub should be feared. Those who dominate as imp, meh, nothing special. Anyone can take a free win.

 

Really the point is, pubs who like to PvP pretty much all play on their imp chars anyhow. Because this is the closest chance to a fair war. All the cross faction does is allow all players the OPTION to play a fair war on either side. Anyone who claims it is anything other than that, is just ignorant.

Edited by Stellarcrusade
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You are completely correct for 1 reason and 1 reason only: IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR PLAYERS TO LOG OUT, AND LOG IN A CHARACTER ON THE OPPOSITE FACTION.

 

Oh, wait, there is nothing stopping players from doing that. Ok, you are completely wrong.

 

Imps frankly are watered down because those who want an easy time of pvp go there. Only hard core PvPers will try pub side currently, and those few who can dominate as pub should be feared. Those who dominate as imp, meh, nothing special. Anyone can take a free win.

 

Really the point is, pubs who like to PvP pretty much all play on their imp chars anyhow. Because this is the closest chance to a fair war. All the cross faction does is allow all players the OPTION to play a fair war on either side. Anyone who claims it is anything other than that, is just ignorant.

 

I don’t think I’m ignorant in wanting cross faction because it would decrease queue times, make matchmaking possible because of increased player pool, allow pubs to queue ranked regardless of faction imbalance on their server, increase population of ranked pvp therefore helping the elo distribution and elimitate sync queueing from ranked.

 

You all are small minded. You need to look at the bigger picture. Cross faction helps in literally every aspect of competitive pvp. It’s an amazing change.

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