how do you guys not get why ^ was never a thing?

if expertise becomes a "bolster" only stat...... PvP is controlled by gear.

understand what will happened in this imagined scenario. you put on your 248 gear. you queue for pvp, in addition to your sexy 248 stat you are now granted 2018 expertise (60% dps, 30% dr inc) and that disgusting nub 230 looks at you wrong. so you flatten him in 5 seconds. his "2018" expertise did not save him from your gear superiority.

do not listen to people who say all day "skill > gear" the reality that they don't tell you, 1) if you suck, your gear wont save you period. an essay written in pen by a thrid grader will not be better than a pencil essay from a college grad. (his ink didnt save him) and 2) if skill meets skill, but skill 1 has 10% more dps? goodbye skill 2. you just got øM3gaLuL #farmed giggity

Expertise was a Horrible idea.

Back in the days pve gear was obtain through guilds that operated like Mafia, picking and choosing who was gonna participated on their raids. While expertise gear was easy to obtain pve gear was not and most of those guild used to farm all aspects of the pve context, selling high quality gear to solo players for a couple of millions. It was a well know lucrative business. Now the gig is up.. Solo players can level and have access to high end gear while being able to participate in raids. Every subscriber is entitle to enjoy all aspects of the game, which is what the current system does, contrary to the old system which only gave control to a small population of the game.. even though we were/are paid subscribers.

Those who claim to want the only system back are the ones who miss their lucrative business.

1) legendary gear is not sellable, its bound.

2) thanks to galatic command (which is here to stay, bioware has too much invested now) even pvpers will get to "300" or whatever 6.0 max will be... and will get both end gear schem for selling on gtn and unsellable legendary gear.

1) legendary gear is not sellable, its bound.

 

2) thanks to galatic command (which is here to stay, bioware has too much invested now) even pvpers will get to "300" or whatever 6.0 max will be... and will get both end gear schem for selling on gtn and unsellable legendary gear.

It was Sellable went guilds used to take the solo players through their raids for a couple of millions.. $20miilion and up to be precise.. Current system as put a Squash to that..

Now guild had move to the Trade Win lucrative business since they cant no longer obtain their millions through pve due to the equal access ..

again. bud.

galatic command will still exist. pvpers will likely gain their "pve" gear through crates or trade in.

running people through ops for credits, there is nothing wrong with that. I paid BBB for my ancient threat title, 5m. otherwise I would actually have to join them and try. bbb used to sell flagships pieces for like 3m-5m a pop, which was great, take a look at the prices now. try to pick a whole 5 pieces for your unlock for 5m.

this "credits for op runs" is still a thing. it will always be a thing as long as there is no gear requirement for op queues/entry

I don't know who put the idea in your head that this "stopped" but its still going strong and is very ludcrative and very supportive and positive to gearing new players.

I have no idea why this is even a thread. Expertise is a waste of time to have. number one thing to learn is to understand each class and learn how to counter each class the best you can. Gear, and anything else stat related is number 2 on the list imo.

I can't think of one logical reason to bring back expertise.

I have no idea why this is even a thread. Expertise is a waste of time to have. number one thing to learn is to understand each class and learn how to counter each class the best you can. Gear, and anything else stat related is number 2 on the list imo.

 

I can't think of one logical reason to bring back expertise.

I would like expertise back, provided it would come with cheap pvp gear again. This makes it possible for people to gear quickly for pvp to get a more level playing ground, while preventing pvp from becoming the go to way to gear for pve

cheap pvp gear

/expertise argument in 3 words

Getting to command rank 300 is easy.

Getting a full set of t4 blues takes a couple of days.

T4 Blues are competitive in both end game pve and pvp.

There is no gear problem, except the one you've made in your head.

Read the Terms of Service for any online game. You don't have the right of free speech in an mmo, you don't own your characters, your account can be deleted at the company's discretion. You don't get to behave in a way that's disruptive to other players (in an mmo that actually polices the community).

 

Imagine you go into a fast food joint, order something that's not even on the menu, and prevent anyone else from ordering until they give you what you want. That's the fast food metaphor that actually reflects what I'm talking about when players used to sabotage their own team when they didn't use expertise.

 

Since Bioware is unwilling/unable to police the community effectively, the game should be set in such a way to absolutely minimize destructive and toxic behavior like that. Expertise gear adds another layer of expected behavior to pvp that ends up being subverted or ignored to the detriment of the majority of the pvp player base.

 

People who don't try to win warzones ruin the pvp experience for other players. Being bad at pvp is fine, but bad behavior isn't, and deserves to be called out. Since Bioware doesn't act on things like that, and since their is no method for avoiding getting teamed with those players, calling them out is the only thing that can be done.

 

That's why expertise coming back is a bad idea. It's also why limiting class roles is a bad idea too. What is going to prevent two trolls from queing two healers in pvp and then not healing the team? What if the person queing tank refuses to guard or taunt?

 

"END OF STORY" ....? Hillarious how you talk about how all players have "rights" to all content and then decide that a discussion in a forum is now ended because that's what you decided. Isn't the forum content too? You would benefit from some self awareness, friend.

Well see, i Ended the conversation on my part, you continued talking to your self on a topic that you try to give it a moral ground but it has none... I mean its like you read nothing of my comment, cause if you did you seen i had said something to the rules and stuff. But i am done, say what ever you want? I dont care.

I will say one more thing about this.

It's a Game, Not real life. If this game seems like you're working your Butt off to have fun, then it isn't fun. A game shouldn't feel like work and cause despair because your worried about others acting like 5yo kids calling you names if you do something wrong. I know the majority of this game is played by adults over 18. But most act under 10, thats sad. Hell there is kids that do play this game act more adult like then most of the adults. So if this game is gonna feel like another job, then why play it at all.

( now in the immortal words of Rodney King ) "can't we All just get along."

Too all, Please take care & Be well........

And in the spirits of the game.

May The Force Be With You....

Removal of expertise was one the best decisions in recent years..... What exactly was the point of it ? Other than making people grind 2 sets of gear, it was a totally useless stat. We need to make PVP more accessible to people. More people means more pops and that's what PVP-ers want.

 

But of course you and many others have a very narrow view of PVP in this game and think that it should about the cool kids who are " skilled".

 

I was around when expertise was active and I can assure you that PVP was the same as it is now. Noobs getting ganked, and 4 man premades with healers and skanks were walking over random teams.

 

Also... you are NOT forced to play with randoms any more than you were when expertise was around and if it's such a big problem for you grab some friends and make a group. There... you now have you dream team for pvp and you can que to maul the " randoms".

 

It is also possible that you just aren't good enough to make a difference for your team. This can create frustration as you aren't capable of doing the job and expect others to do it for you and then blame them for being bad...

Your deluded. PVP Was at all time low because population died MAINLY cause you now had to endlessly grind for gear to PVP! You will spend Month(S) grinding just to get a suite suitable for PVP instead of at best 4 weeks. Plus it made balancing a lot more difficult.

Now PVP is a joke cause dam near everyone is either a Jug, Merc or sniper the trio of the I win classes toss in a sorc heals and 2 or 3 more of those classes and you got you typical PVP match rest being filled in by Mara's, sins or operatives. So instead of addressing the issue the wise and O insightful DEV's heard the PVP community's plea for balance and have decided that no longer will you have to suffer through 10 to 15 minutes of a slaughter fest of a match due to grossly imbalanced teams because the wise and O insightful DEV's have made the matches shorter! So you still have the slaughter fest only its shorter! <face palm>

Getting to command rank 300 is easy.

 

Getting a full set of t4 blues takes a couple of days.

 

T4 Blues are competitive in both end game pve and pvp.

 

There is no gear problem, except the one you've made in your head.

you are a silly person. and you drag your team down in all content queueing without set bonus or bolster support.

but no amount of convincing will change your mind.... someone in 5.0 who thinks no set bonus is as good as set bonus cannot be reasoned with.... but you are silly.

fyi, command 300 is not easy for a new player. they do not have the 100% buff in legacy (granted from 2.5m and 4 basic classes at 300) they do not have the 10% cxp boost from legacy (useless once you gain the 100% + its way more than 2.5m) nor do they have easy access to plentifull cxp boosts because they only have their one free 65. no it is not easy, and downplaying it gives a false impression to new users. like your blue gear info.

Getting to command rank 300 is easy.

 

Getting a full set of t4 blues takes a couple of days.

 

T4 Blues are competitive in both end game pve and pvp.

 

There is no gear problem, except the one you've made in your head.

This is completely BS.

Blues can be competitive so can any lower tier gear set. The fact is min/maxing still will take you months with the current gearing system, while in 4.0 you could get t1 in a day and t2 min/maxed in a week.

Command rank 300 can take players over a month to get and what does that even mean? It doesn’t make your magically min/maxed it means you might get the *possibility* to roll a piece of t4 you MIGHT need. 300 means nothing.

Pvp has never been about gear, no one wants it to be. That’s why 4.0 gearing was so beloved by pvpers. You could make a new toon or toons and fully gear it in weeks. No one wants to spend months to gear one toon Jesus Christ. Every pvper wants to get our gear and then just play without having gear in the equation for why we did good or bad.

For all of you who say this current gearing system is better for pvpers you are all fing high.

you are a silly person. and you drag your team down in all content queueing without set bonus or bolster support.

 

but no amount of convincing will change your mind.... someone in 5.0 who thinks no set bonus is as good as set bonus cannot be reasoned with.... but you are silly.

 

The T4 blue sets have the set bonus. I keep telling you guys to take an honest look at the blue T4 gear, but like you said "no amount of convincing will change your mind".

The toxicity has reached your brains.

maybe you are correct, about the set bonus, as far as my memory goes blue gear has never had a "pop up" with set bonus.

tbh, I havent really logged in for 2 months... cept for the first session on pts where it became clear 5.9.2 does not currently have optimal or acceptable matchmaking (the only way I would return on a daily basis) other than that I wont be returning to this game until season 10 starts for solo ranked. (no date on that either, just a vague hint) so if my understanding of blue gear having set bonus is incorrect I apologise. as for the importance of bolster support... I will leave you with this. I have both "tested" and watched people queue in blue gear, I have witnessed first hand personaly and from third person exactly how much 248 damage t4 blue cannot take. I've watched a t4 hlr sorc with blue left side (just left side) get blown up so fast vs 3 dps she literally couldnt click sorc bubble fast enough. I personaly from exp last about... Id say 20% is a realistic ratio, last 20% less long in blue gear, vs my legendary set.

The T4 blue sets have the set bonus. I keep telling you guys to take an honest look at the blue T4 gear, but like you said "no amount of convincing will change your mind".

 

The toxicity has reached your brains.

They do indeed count toward the set bonus.

I've watched a t4 hlr sorc with blue left side (just left side) get blown up so fast vs 3 dps she literally couldnt click sorc bubble fast enough.

Yeah... that had nothing to do with gear, and everything to do the fact that she was focused by 3 dps (and charitably, one was probably a merc with electronet, so she couldn't god bubble). But gear is not the issue at all.

This is completely BS.

 

Blues can be competitive so can any lower tier gear set. The fact is min/maxing still will take you months with the current gearing system, while in 4.0 you could get t1 in a day and t2 min/maxed in a week.

 

Command rank 300 can take players over a month to get and what does that even mean? It doesn’t make your magically min/maxed it means you might get the *possibility* to roll a piece of t4 you MIGHT need. 300 means nothing.

 

Pvp has never been about gear, no one wants it to be. That’s why 4.0 gearing was so beloved by pvpers. You could make a new toon or toons and fully gear it in weeks. No one wants to spend months to gear one toon Jesus Christ. Every pvper wants to get our gear and then just play without having gear in the equation for why we did good or bad.

 

For all of you who say this current gearing system is better for pvpers you are all fing high.

If it's complete BS, why do you agree that the blue T4 is competitive? Contradiction.

If you think that any lower tiered gear is competitive, then it shouldn't matter to you how long it takes to get command rank 300. Regardless, the boosts for 1-299 are super cheap and easy to get, and drop like candy from the crates themselves. Rank 300 will come sooner than you think.

Every single T4 crate drops blue gear. If you play for a weekend (2 days/4 hours a day) after getting command rank 300, on average you'd probably have 2-3 purples and the rest blues T4. That's assuming you had zero luck with golds. If you were missing a piece then you could simply spend the UC you just earned to fill in that last spot. Easy.

Taking months to min/max and get exactly the gear the way you want it wasn't even being discussed. We were discussing the "difficulty" in which a fresh player gears for pvp. As for BIS-min/max we honestly just need a mod/enhancement vendor. I'm sure there are other threads.

Good MMO game design should minimize differences between game modes, not make them even worse. That's why Wow dropped their pvp stat, that's why ESO simply has a 50% DR for pvp, that's why the only thing the pvp stat for FF14 does is level sync.

You seem really aggressive. Invoking someone's god, or accusing them of using drugs simply because they disagree with you is pretty toxic, you should honestly check yourself.

There is a general contradiction here. People do not want PVP to be gear based (=stats based) at all, so the solution they are suggesting is to make PVP dependant on one additional stat. The reasoning they have for it is that if there is a seperate PVP gear, it can also be easier to obtain, and also have lower stats so people might finally die. Well expertise will have to be insanely powerful if we want a weaker PVP gear to actually be better than PVE gear, even for PVP (if the cost of expertise would be 20% less crit or 30k less HP or stuff like that, I am not sure that would be worth it), and that would mean player which is in progress of his PVP gearing has a great gap compared to a player that is done gearing, so it makes PVP even MORE gear dependant. Naturally, if the expertise gear is as good as the PVE one, the PVE is inferior because it is slower to get AND lacks expertise.

The solution is not expertise this time. If we think stats are too high or that gearing creates a terrible gap (the gap is not so big, though) and takes to long (it actually doesn't, not after the first character), the solution would be to make a "sync bolster", which means everyone gets the exact same stats (probably broken down differently for each role, if not for each spec. It is not too much to program. A simple switch-case), absolutely regardless of gear. That would also put a stop to all those bolster breakers who always try to find a hole in the system and get stronger than possible...

This is completely BS.

Ofc its not BS!

If you have a few level 70s (which I suppose people have or can get with datacrons or tokens), you can quickly get either GTN gear, 230 gear, or just que SM ops for 236 golds, then go do HM operations for 242 tokens, then farm Group Ranked which pops like nonstop for UCS and when you have 9000 you can be BiS in like what? 1 Week?

The thing is you really have to go after ONLY this, nothing else. Also by doing all this you increase your GC rank and you dont need to get to 300, just 182 when you start getting 242 gear that you upgrade to 248. I really dont see any BS here! I play a silly 12 hours a week and I had my 8 toons 248 BiS a VERY long time ago and also the imp counterparts, with 248 MH and OH that are different for the classes and the left side.

People do not even gear their toons, so they dont know how easy and fast this has become.

There is a general contradiction here. People do not want PVP to be gear based (=stats based) at all, so the solution they are suggesting is to make PVP dependant on one additional stat. The reasoning they have for it is that if there is a seperate PVP gear, it can also be easier to obtain, and also have lower stats so people might finally die. Well expertise will have to be insanely powerful if we want a weaker PVP gear to actually be better than PVE gear, even for PVP (if the cost of expertise would be 20% less crit or 30k less HP or stuff like that, I am not sure that would be worth it), and that would mean player which is in progress of his PVP gearing has a great gap compared to a player that is done gearing, so it makes PVP even MORE gear dependant. Naturally, if the expertise gear is as good as the PVE one, the PVE is inferior because it is slower to get AND lacks expertise.

This was also an issue in the past where PVP gear was very close to PVE gear. In time of World firsts people would amass the PVP coms so when a new ops was out they would quickly go an buy PVP left side since it was easy and fast to get and started the new boss/ops with the gear they had plus the PVP stuff. So that was kinda of a trick before. PVP gear should definitely be weaker than PVE gear.

the solution would be to make a "sync bolster"

Yes, this was when 5.0 launched we had bolster to 250 gear. There are a few threads which discuss this, but again that would lead to boredom in PVP as anyone could enter it. PVP syncers/wintraders would still be looking for advantages with specific gear etc so not much would change and people would get bored much sooner with PVP. Also, they wouldn't feel the need to subscribe since you wouldnt need gear so no need for subscription, that means the PVP community would drop their sub.

The solution is not expertise this time. If we think stats are too high or that gearing creates a terrible gap (the gap is not so big, though) and takes to long (it actually doesn't, not after the first character), the solution would be to make a "sync bolster", which means everyone gets the exact same stats (probably broken down differently for each role, if not for each spec. It is not too much to program. A simple switch-case), absolutely regardless of gear. That would also put a stop to all those bolster breakers who always try to find a hole in the system and get stronger than possible...

That is what I have been saying for years; to take gear out of the equation and make the stats fixed based on class and spec. Unfortunately some players still enjoy to gear up for PVP - this is an MMO after all - and I can respect that, and I doubt BW would ever agree to remove a grind that keeps people subscribed for longer (the players that remain that is ).

When are u guys, selfcalled "devs" gonna bring back expertise?

 

Ever since u, selfcalled "devs" took it out wz's got really really bad, unballenced, all the bads going for pvp.

 

Before u, selfcalled "devs" took expertise out from PvP, ppl actually cared about playing PvP and they were forced to earn the comms to buy the gear and so the ones that are dedicated to PvP felt like they were really playing for something, and the oned that didn't carre about PvP at all got what they deserved. But now we are forced to play with randoms that don't care about PvP and ruin our game just because they want some comp, or whatever.

 

PvP became a joke and its all ur fault.

 

If u, selfcalled "devs" don't like to play the game, then, listen to the community and let us play, unnistead acting like some politians that just think about themselfs.

 

Thank you.

Where do ppl get all these funny ideas? I'm talking subscribers in general..

PvP as always been unbalance, even back went it was full Expertise, bads continue to be bad, premade continue to to farm players, the solo skillful player couldn't prevail because the system continue to queue them with bads while premade farm them..etc.. in other words there as never been such thing as "based on skills" never was..

What I see with the upcoming changes is a change in Power, and those players who control the game don't like/wanna loose their grip on others.. The Command System is the best thing that as happened to this game. Players are no longer alienated or have to heavily relay on others to obtain what they want.. They can independently participate in all aspects of the game..

Lets face it; those who're advocating for expertise to be back, want nothing more than The Command System to be eliminated. I can only imaging that Yellow fever crawling down their spine for fear of the unknow, fear of things they cant/wont be able to control anymore:D:D:D:D:D:cool:

Where do ppl get all these funny ideas? I'm talking subscribers in general..

PvP as always been unbalance, even back went it was full Expertise, bads continue to be bad, premade continue to to farm players, the solo skillful player couldn't prevail because the system continue to queue them with bads while premade farm them..etc.. in other words there as never been such thing as "based on skills" never was..

 

What I see with the upcoming changes is a change in Power, and those players who control the game don't like/wanna loose their grip on others.. The Command System is the best thing that as happened to this game. Players are no longer alienated or have to heavily relay on others to obtain what they want.. They can independently participate in all aspects of the game..

 

Lets face it; those who're advocating for expertise to be back, want nothing more than The Command System to be eliminated. I can only imaging that Yellow fever crawling down their spine for fear of the unknow, fear of things they cant/wont be able to control anymore:D:D:D:D:D:cool:

100% this ^

I've literally done more raiding in 5.0 than I did all other expansions (and vanilla) combined. As a pvper, I didn't have that much motivation to make a pve set, but when 5.0 launched, suddenly my guild started doing raids. Not only does galactic command allow you to easily flip between game modes, it gives you a reason to. The gear you get from raiding can also be your pvp gear, and vice versa. In fact, players who did both had a huge advantage. (t2-t3 from raiding, upgrade with UC via pvp)

It hasn't been very long since the "mega server" situation, but people already are complaining about not enough population again. We need a unified community that can play together, not gearing systems that segregates players into smaller groups.