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Bring Back The Original PT/VG Patch 3.0 - 4.0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Bring Back The Original PT/VG Patch 3.0 - 4.0

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
08.11.2018 , 05:43 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
To start off with, im the guy who wrote those guides linked in OP (though I haven't commented here in a long time)

With that out of the way:

PTs/VGs are in their best state ever for PvE DPS. As such, if you want to complain, you should look to either complain about our PvP capabilities, or our tanking.

For PvP, Its mostly because of our complete lack of defensive cooldowns (Oh look, I have 1. And a half. WOOOOOOOOO)

For tanks, see the PvP excuse.

Despite this, Powertechs/Vanguards still have their ludicrous advantages of the past when they go into a raid. Almost no melee abilities and no casted/channeled abilities make it stupidly easy to keep the rotation up. In fact, they're in an even better state than before, as they can now move during the replacement Mortar Volley/Death from Above, while its on a much lower cooldown and does comparable damage (since its buff).

To add to that, there is also the fact that Pyrotech no longer has to channel flamethrower, making their rotation just as mobile as Advanced Prototype. So we end up with a class with dps specs that are actually better than what we had in the 3.x-4.x cycle, and we've still got Pyro Shield and Reflexive armor to make our in-raid damage even higher. Add to that Pyrotechs getting 30% AoE damage reduction and honestly, there is no excuse for you having problems as a PT or VG in a raid, unless tanking.

TL;DR - PT/VG are better in the only case the OP linked (also the only time they are better)
no problem unless TANKING. There by rendering one entire discipline basically useless and the exact thing I wanted a damn PT for. Cause I'll tell ya this twinkle toes. Anything a PT can do for DPS, a Merc(even an IO Merc) can do better, and is more survivable. Infact the only thing a PT can do that a merc can't is taunt.

So spare me the whole "we're in a better place". Well when ya hit the floor, only place you can go is UP.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't want a FOTM scenario. I just want equal ability to tank as the other two tanks in the game. And you know as well as I do, PT isn't even in the same galaxy as a Sin or Jugg as far as tanking.

And it's about time that got rectified.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
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ultimarb's Avatar


ultimarb
08.13.2018 , 03:13 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
no problem unless TANKING. There by rendering one entire discipline basically useless and the exact thing I wanted a damn PT for. Cause I'll tell ya this twinkle toes. Anything a PT can do for DPS, a Merc(even an IO Merc) can do better, and is more survivable. Infact the only thing a PT can do that a merc can't is taunt.

So spare me the whole "we're in a better place". Well when ya hit the floor, only place you can go is UP.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't want a FOTM scenario. I just want equal ability to tank as the other two tanks in the game. And you know as well as I do, PT isn't even in the same galaxy as a Sin or Jugg as far as tanking.

And it's about time that got rectified.
For MasterMode Raiding PT/VG is the second of choice. They do the most damage of all tanks and due to passive their damage taking per second is on par with sin/shadow.
Sin/Shadow for MasterMode is the easier choice for your healers due to their reduction or avoiding of spike damage.
So it is a trade off for struggeling Raiding-Crews. More Tank-Dps or lesser spike Damage. It completly depends on your dps and healers.

In terms of PVP. PVP is not balanced on 1vs1 although some people seems to ask for that kind of balance...
Can you imagine what a pt/vg dps would do in a regular warzone if it had mercs dcds? pt can easily do 5-6k singletarget damage in a warzone and has spike of 12-20k dps.
But hard facts....:
from 5.1 (23rd January 2017 fixed Sin/Shadow Double-Stance Bug) to 5.9 (May 2018) VG/PT Tanks was first choice in PVP for more than a year. Their are multiple guys in solo and teamranked on gold rating as evidence. the team with pt/vg had a huge advantage compared to jugg/guardian & sin/shadow when on equal skill.
And the will be first choice again when the devs bring juggs enrage defense back to line.

So conclusion Ranking ff Tanks in pve is sin>pt>jugg and in pvp jugg>pt>sin. so yes actually completey in another galaxy...

And in which universe are mercs superior in DPS compared to PT at the moment?
List can contain some point of ironic statements
  • Try to do Healing Adds in Tyth Veteran Mode Solo with a Merc (Good Luck) or Railguns on Nahut)
  • Show me a 8.9k+ DPS Merc at Brontes Burn
  • Which Merc beats PT's DPS on Revan Core
  • I must have missed Mercs new Sonic Rebounder on almost every third boss in this game
  • Arsenals "Average" 10k DPS on Dummy is legen...wait for it...dary
  • Mercs and PT'S Deff are on the same level in pve. you die cause of bad playing of mechanics or bad healers. not because you are a pt.
Seven Stuck - Hakuna Rakata
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AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
08.13.2018 , 04:37 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by ultimarb View Post
For MasterMode Raiding PT/VG is the second of choice. They do the most damage of all tanks and due to passive their damage taking per second is on par with sin/shadow.
Sin/Shadow for MasterMode is the easier choice for your healers due to their reduction or avoiding of spike damage.
So it is a trade off for struggeling Raiding-Crews. More Tank-Dps or lesser spike Damage. It completly depends on your dps and healers.
They're definitely not second choice for nightmare raiding, not by a long shot. They actually have the highest dtps of all tanks versus any damage profile. Juggs tend to excell at figths with a bunch of melee/ranged damage. Sins tend to excell when there's a lot of internal/elemental damage. PTs have the highest damage taken whatever the distribution of damage (see this link).

As for them having the most damage, that was definitely true for a long time, but I'm not sure if that still holds. PT tanks really took the brunt of the tank damage nerfs.

Overall PT tanks have the highest dtps of all tanks without counting cooldowns, the worst selection of defensive cooldowns and they are also the only tank completely lacking a self cleanse. They surely aren't the second choice for nightmare raiding, they're the worst. That's not to say you can't make PT tanking work in nightmares, it's just going to take very good cooldown management and some extra work from your healers.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
08.13.2018 , 04:50 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
They're definitely not second choice for nightmare raiding, not by a long shot. They actually have the highest dtps of all tanks versus any damage profile. Juggs tend to excell at figths with a bunch of melee/ranged damage. Sins tend to excell when there's a lot of internal/elemental damage. PTs have the highest damage taken whatever the distribution of damage (see this link).

As for them having the most damage, that was definitely true for a long time, but I'm not sure if that still holds. PT tanks really took the brunt of the tank damage nerfs.

Overall PT tanks have the highest dtps of all tanks without counting cooldowns, the worst selection of defensive cooldowns and they are also the only tank completely lacking a self cleanse. They surely aren't the second choice for nightmare raiding, they're the worst. That's not to say you can't make PT tanking work in nightmares, it's just going to take very good cooldown management and some extra work from5 your healers.
Finally, someone who uses logic.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
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ultimarb's Avatar


ultimarb
08.13.2018 , 05:04 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
Finally, someone who uses logic.
it's logic because it supports your opinion?

Every Nightmare Tank i know uses sin/shadow or pt/vg depending which boss you fight.
Every once in a while some of them wants the "fancy" TimeRun Title on his/her Jugg/Guardian. So PT is "the last" choice...
and yes. pt tanks do the most dps even after nerf.
Seven Stuck - Hakuna Rakata
Final Tauntaun

GhOsTPrOz's Avatar


GhOsTPrOz
08.13.2018 , 09:24 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by ultimarb View Post
it's logic because it supports your opinion?

Every Nightmare Tank i know uses sin/shadow or pt/vg depending which boss you fight.
Every once in a while some of them wants the "fancy" TimeRun Title on his/her Jugg/Guardian. So PT is "the last" choice...
and yes. pt tanks do the most dps even after nerf.

Curious what fantasy land you live in? I am a VG tank main, and have cleared all content as one, however I play the other tanks as well and VG is by far the least desired tank. It has some fights where it's very nice but the other two tanks just do most things better/bring more to the table.

If you want a fight by fight breakdown of my personal choice of tank for each boss I can do that but more often then not VG finishes last, I am one of like 3 VG tanks in my guild and only one other plays it as their main tank class. The rest are all shadows or guardians
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