One way to support a Competitive PvP game in 8-man, 4-man, or even for healthy PvE would be to issue anything resembling a balance update more often than once every 6-12 months. I don't see SWTORs future as bright if the devs don't get a hold of this very simple concept: Incremental balance updates (tweezers not hammers), substantially more often (monthly at the least), is better than sitting on your work for half a year, and then dumping it in our laps all at once.

 

Ironically, the Cartel Market team has this technique down pat: armor/speeder palette swaps (small updates), regurgitated in a timely fashion (practically weekly), and it is apparently working out well for them (i.e. - propping the game up). A pity the combat team can't provide the same type of service instead of essentially completely uprooting the entire PvP and PvE paradigm whenever they decide it's finally time to double down on a patch.

 

"Ranked PvP as you played it for the past year is NO MORE... here's some Arenas instead - hope you enjoy them. Also, Guardians/Juggs are now the Top DPS.... "I Win", a unique Healing skill that does not respect the GCD and has no energy cost, can now be trained by Snipers/Slingers at Level 10... and Marauders are nerfed to the very bottom of everything... (well except for Concealment Ops, we learned they must always be on the bottom or people will be stunlocked into unsubbing)."

Seriously, would it be so difficult to include the player base in the continual process of incrementally improving the game? Why limit the idea testing to the 16 players on the internal test team. We understand that it is a perpetual work in progress, if an idea makes it past "alpha" - try it out on us. If something doesn't work out, you can roll it back. If OP becomes UP, or vice versa, you can adjust it again and again. Anything has got to be better than having the "Smash/Bubble-Stun fest" we endured for 6 months while the devs ironed out the details, behind closed doors, at a glacial pace.

 

Ex. - Look at the top Ranked Civil War metagame over the past year (1st team to get a side cap wins, stalemate in mid to keep active as the clock slowly ticks down to the outcome dictated in the 1st minutes of the match. It took a year to finally try something "crazy" like "Let's see what happens if we take away those side speeders?" Did it magically "fix" the WZ? No - but it's surely a step in the right direction. If only we had more of these small iterative changes going on regularly, a little effort to address obvious issues with balance in a timely manner. If they didn't take months to implement simple things like CW speeders, or VS Walls, or address BubbleStun fest, or nerf Ops again.... I believe there'd be a lot more satisfied customers saying "it ain't perfect, but look they're trying" instead of "who knows what they're cooking up in the lab this year, guess we'll see in 6 months when they drop the 5.8 "balancing-bomb" patch on us".

Edited August 16, 2013 by IronmanSS

PLEASE!!!! PLEASE do this!!!

100 times yes. I agree.

Id like my Powertech to be useful again ty.

/signed

I totally agree.

 

/Signed

 

The unfortunate part the devs are too lazy to work more than once every 6-8 month so it aint going to happen. Is not this their track records regarding class balance anyway? Since I joined the game in version 1.3, changes happened in 1.4 then in 2.0, which are 8 month a part. There incredibly small changes otherwise, but negligible for the most part.

/signed.

I'm glad you thread-ized this, utterly makes sense.

 

It'll be interesting to see if the rare/sketchy/drastic balancing MO continues into 4-man TDM.

I've always felt they needed to do smaller and more frequent balancing. I think the reason they haven't is apparent now. They probably have been planning on throwing the baby out with the bathwater for several months now. 4v4 will be a new ball game. Edited August 15, 2013 by Technohic

Austin Peckenpaugh made reference to a possibility of this occurring back when 2.0 was still on PTS. As we can see that didnt pan out at all.

This should be standard practise. PTS should be actually for testing different things and theories.

 

Not just for live preperation.

+1 to OP for common sense

ROFLAWL

 

Yes, this IS a smaller, incremental Class Balance patch like I was talking about, you guys got that part right...

 

...problem is it took you 6 months instead of 6 days to come up with it. Earning your pay for sure Combat Team.

Edited August 17, 2013 by IronmanSS

Its sure nice they took the time to fix Sin tanking, Sin dps, Madness dps, concealment op dps. Waited 6 months for the change but now its here! You can take any class you want into NM raids and still get the job done. Oh wait.....

Its sure nice they took the time to fix Sin tanking, Sin dps, Madness dps, concealment op dps. Waited 6 months for the change but now its here! You can take any class you want into NM raids and still get the job done. Oh wait.....

 

I'm sure that Phase Walk having no CD when unused will bump PvE Sin DPS and Survivability up by 10% at least - those poor Concealment Ops tho...

Word. I believe they used that exact expression too when saying that they would continuously and frequently look at and update the balance/classes.

 

So far; Nothing, nada.

Incremental balancing is one of the worst ways to handle class balance issues.

 

It makes balancing too susceptible to each and every individual whine/complaint out there, and tends to anger everyone with every incremental change. It also makes long-term data mining impossible, and tends to throw player opinions in chaos with each change.

 

Leave the developing to the developers, please.

I'm glad you thread-ized this, utterly makes sense.

 

This is exactly why bioware won't do it

Good stuff.

 

Nerf smash plz.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Laforet

Incremental balancing is one of the worst ways to handle class balance issues.

 

It makes balancing too susceptible to each and every individual whine/complaint out there, and tends to anger everyone with every incremental change. It also makes long-term data mining impossible, and tends to throw player opinions in chaos with each change.

 

Leave the developing to the developers, please.

 

Thats the problem though, they are not doing anything. The devs are not doing class balance and are not working on fixes that affects players. I've been getting my pvp fix from a moba game recently and let me tell you a couple things.

 

First off this game is FREE !

 

-They have added new content to the game almost every week that I have played including 3 new playable toons in one month.

 

-They do balancing every week if not more (depending on if servers go down more then once that week)

 

-They even have reverted a change that didn't work out as intended.

 

 

Biowares combat team simply has no idea what they are doing. PTS today should have had balance across all classes not just one. What is even worse about that is they put up a blog ASKING US (making your point about letting them balance moot) if any group comps in are too powerful in the 4v4 which also means that they haven't even been thinking about class balance and still have no idea what to do with it.

 

They need to start listening to their player base, most people don't want their class to be OP. People want to play what they want and not have to be punished for it. As it stands not all classes are welcome into raids, this shouldn't happen.

Edited August 17, 2013 by HoboWithAStick

I guess real the question is: How much time would you like to give the "Class Balance Team" to produce ANYTHING regarding class balance? This is like forking over the cash to build a new house to a contractor, then returning in 6 months to see them drinking beer on your still empty lot.

 

"How's the house coming along guys?"

 

"Umm, we decided to hold off on digging the foundation for 6 months because... hey, would you like a beer? It's on you, cheers!"

 

 

All sarcasm aside, the truth of my intentions is summed up right here:

...most people don't want their class to be OP. People want to play what they want and not have to be punished for it....

 

It just upsets me that this game has such great potential but has such negligent stewards.

Edited August 17, 2013 by IronmanSS

They are planning an balance changes with next patch

 

They are testing it on PTS

 

Classes and Combat

 

Jedi Consular

 

Shadow

 

Phase Walk now only teleports the player when the ability is deactivated manually. All other methods of removing the effect (such as clicking to remove the buff from the effect bar) will simply end the ability without a teleportation.

Phase Walk now only goes on cooldown when the character successfully teleports.

 

 

Sith Inquisitor

 

Assassin

 

Phase Walk now only teleports the player when the ability is deactivated manually. All other methods of removing the effect (such as clicking to remove the buff from the effect bar) will simply end the ability without a teleportation.

Phase Walk now only goes on cooldown when the character successfully teleports.

 

 

Bounty Hunter

 

General

 

Reduced the cost of Flame Thrower to 24 heat (down from 25) and slightly reduced the damage dealt.

 

 

Mercenary

 

Pyrotech

 

Increased Thermal Detonator explosion damage, but reduced the damage it deals over time.

Reduced the cost of Incendiary Missile to 16 heat (down from 22) and slightly reduced the damage it deals.

 

Powertech

 

Advanced Prototype

 

Increased the cost of Immolate to 10 heat (up from 8) and increased the damage it deals.

Slightly reduced the damage done by Retractable Blade.

Prototype Cylinder Ventilation has been redesigned: While High Energy Gas Cylinder is active, players will vent 1/2 heat every 1.5 seconds.

Prototype Flame Thrower has been redesigned: Flame Burst, Flame Sweep, and Immolate have a 50/100% chance to grant Prototype Flame Thrower, which affects the next Flame Thrower by increasing the damage dealt by 20%, reducing the heat generated by 2, slowing targets by 30%, and making it immune to interrupts. This effect can stack up to 3 times.

Prototype Weapon Systems now additionally increases the critical strike damage bonus for Flame Thrower by 10/20/30%.

Power Loaders now additionally increases the critical hit chance of Rocket Punch by 2/4/6%.

 

Pyrotech

 

Increased Thermal Detonator explosion damage, but reduced the damage it deals over time.

Reduced the cost of Incendiary Missile to 16 heat (down from 22), and slightly reduced the damage it deals.

Bursting Flame has been redesigned: Rocket Punch has a 33/66/100% chance, and if Combustible Gas Cylinder is active, Flame Burst has a 15/30/45% chance to trigger it.

 

 

Trooper

 

General

 

Reduced the cost of Pulse Cannon to 24 energy cells (down from 25) and slightly reduced the damage it deals.

 

 

Commando

 

Assault Specialist

 

Increased Assault Plastique explosion damage, but reduced the damage it deals over time.

Reduced the cost of Incendiary Round to 16 energy cells (down from 22) and slightly reduced the damage it deals.

 

 

Vanguard

 

Tactics

 

Increased the cost of Fire Pulse to 10 energy cells (up from 8) and increased the damage it deals.

Slightly reduced the damage done by Gut.

Cell Generator has been redesigned: While High Energy Cell is active, players regenerate 1/2 energy cells every 1.5 seconds.

Havoc Training now additionally also increases the critical strike damage bonus for Pulse Cannon by 10/20/30%.

Charged Loaders now additionally increases the critical hit chance of Stockstrike by 2/4/6%.

Pulse Generator has been redesigned: Ion Pulse, Explosive Surge, and Fire Pulse have a 50/100% chance to grant Pulse Generator, which affects the next Pulse Cannon by increasing the damage dealt 20%, reducing the energy cell cost by 2, slowing targets by 30%, and making it immune to interrupts. This effect can stack up to 3 times.

 

Assault Specialist

 

Increased Assault Plastique explosion damage, but reduced the damage it deals over time.

Reduced the cost of Incendiary Round to 16 energy cells (down from 22) and slightly reduced the damage it deals.

Ionized Ignition has been redesigned: Stockstrike has a 33/66/100% chance and if Plasma Cell is active, Ion Pulse has a 15/30/45% chance to trigger it

They are planning an balance changes with next patch

 

They are testing it on PTS

 

 

They are doing balance to one class, the other part isn't even balance its fixing something to what it always should have been and doesn't really do anything. Read the posts next time before you reply with something like that.

Watching Eric Musco, and the backpeddling devs chosen to represent the developers on the PTS, it's quite apparent that they intend the classes to play as backpeddling noobs who don't know what a White bar is.

 

Which effectively means, the one person who manages all class balance, I think is Austen Peckerpeck or whatever, is a backpeddling noob who only plays FOTM classes and plays them so poorly thus insulates them from any nerfs while causing more nerfs to classes like the Powertech.

 

So honestly we should look at this with a glass half full sort of situation, thank god they don't balance regularly or at all, otherwise the overpowered classes would be even more powerful and the nerfed ones even more nerfed.

As much as I like to defend the practices of the SWTOR team we really do need incremental balance patches. The only way arenas are going to work is with constant balance tweaking.