ok, I have to wash my hands of this now. You're just making up huge things with major characters and....well, you're going to do what you're going to do.

 

I gave my reasons and my understanding of the character, from what I saw from Satele and the Jedi Order through the Imperial storyline, they had done much more horrible things before, such thing is not a big deal.

 

But I didn't start this thread to argue such thing, so I said let's put this away and talk about what's going to happen next. I guess I should just start the OP with "SI captured Satele and tried to corrupt her like Malak did to her ancestor".

Edited November 5, 2012 by Slowpokeking

See, this is what I'm saying. There can't be a next that has any logic when your plot is based on what seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of one of your main characters. You can write it from the imperial pov, but you have to write Shan's actions and words from a jedi one. so you need to know what that is. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a rough outline, but you can't make decisions about what what characters would do until you really know them. The fact is, that often changes during writing as well.

See, this is what I'm saying. There can't be a next that has any logic when your plot is based on what seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of one of your main characters. You can write it from the imperial pov, but you have to write Shan's actions and words from a jedi one. so you need to know what that is. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a rough outline, but you can't make decisions about what what characters would do until you really know them. The fact is, that often changes during writing as well.

 

Why? If you don't like the Malgus&Satele part, just ignore it. SI captured her son and lured her there. Then she chose to be captured by the SI to gain her son's freedom, that fit her character well right? Then can you give advice of what would happen next?

 

But if you still want to continue on the Malgus pair, like I said, she could aid her ancestor's plan of wipe out 98% of the Imperial population, work with a Sith Lord who had killed countless Jedi and betrayed her ancestor, caused the death of a savior of the Jedi order and her ancestor to be imprisoned by the Emperor for 300 years. The Jedi under her leadership framed someone with a lot of crimes that even the chancellor said it was wrong. Why do you think it's impossible for her to use Malgus to have a child? Her personal hatred?

Well I prefer to stick with the plot as well, even in a SW&LotR crossover I still made sure it would not contradict anything in SW's main plot so I chose to start from the end of current TOR story, which they haven't given the new plot out yet, and avoid original characters unless no existing character could fit the role.

 

Well, since she could take the risk to work with a Sith Lord who killed countless Jedi and betrayed her ancestor before, permit her Jedi to aid her ancestor with the genocide plan and that frame thing, I think she would consider this. It's not she couldn't kill Malgus later.

 

Before I give you another suggestion I want to make clear I am not trying dissuade you from making the story at all. I am merely trying to help you make it in a way that makes sense and flows well. Believe me, all I am trying to do is help.

 

Now, before you go any further with this play through the Jedi night story. You will get a better idea of things. Now think about this (warning, spoiler here if you have not already heard, which i think everyone in their grandmother has by now) who would be better suited to potentially have a child powerful enough to possibly destroy the Empire> Satele and Malgus or a Jedi who killed the Emperor? Malgus I wouldn't consider being the Sith father as he, at this point in time, is most likely unable to father a child.

 

You can still have the capture of Shan, but that could be the lure to get your Knight to come to herr rescue and succumb to the plan. Just throwing this out there for you.

Not to rain on your parade, but Malgus and the Twi'lek from the intro video of Deception were lovers. Her name is Eleena. And if you'd like to know what happens between them 1)read the book Deception or 2) click the spoiler:

 

 

 

 

So with that, I find any love relation between Malgus kinda far fetched. Also, Malgus seems so ****** until I found out he had a lover. And constantly had to protect her. Then I decided he was a little *****.

Before I give you another suggestion I want to make clear I am not trying dissuade you from making the story at all. I am merely trying to help you make it in a way that makes sense and flows well. Believe me, all I am trying to do is help.

 

Now, before you go any further with this play through the Jedi night story. You will get a better idea of things. Now think about this (warning, spoiler here if you have not already heard, which i think everyone in their grandmother has by now) who would be better suited to potentially have a child powerful enough to possibly destroy the Empire> Satele and Malgus or a Jedi who killed the Emperor? Malgus I wouldn't consider being the Sith father as he, at this point in time, is most likely unable to father a child.

 

You can still have the capture of Shan, but that could be the lure to get your Knight to come to herr rescue and succumb to the plan. Just throwing this out there for you.

 

I understand it but Theron Shan was born 30 years before the game time, the JK character might not be born yet. She could not know someone would rise to kill the Emperor, only Scourge might have a clue at that time.

 

Well I want to have a rescuer, but I favor Revan.

Not to rain on your parade, but Malgus and the Twi'lek from the intro video of Deception were lovers. Her name is Eleena. And if you'd like to know what happens between them 1)read the book Deception or 2) click the spoiler:

 

 

Eleena gets endangered throughout the book, and constantly ruins plans and events for Malgus in front of the Emperor and his rival. During the book's climax, she is captured and used as bait to trap Malgus. While Malgus does, indeed save her, its the price of showing mercy to a Jedi. The realization that his love will always be a weakness for him, he kills Eleena himself, vows never to love again, and uses her loss to fuel his rage.

 

 

So with that, I find any love relation between Malgus kinda far fetched. Also, Malgus seems so ****** until I found out he had a lover. And constantly had to protect her. Then I decided he was a little *****.

 

It has nothing to do with love at all, just powerplay.

I understand it but Theron Shan was born 30 years before the game time, the JK character might not be born yet. She could not know someone would rise to kill the Emperor, only Scourge might have a clue at that time.

 

Well I want to have a rescuer, but I favor Revan.

 

So fill me in here. You are saying, in your story, that Theron would be the one Satele and Malgus create to ruin the Empire from within? Or are you saying that they will hook up again after the Sacking of Coruscant? A little timeline clarity would help.

So fill me in here. You are saying, in your story, that Theron would be the one Satele and Malgus create to ruin the Empire from within? Or are you saying that they will hook up again after the Sacking of Coruscant? A little timeline clarity would help.

 

They made it before the Sacking of Coruscant, but Malgus filled the child with the power of the Dark Side and severed his link with the light side, then Satele Shan found out and ran away before Malgus could catch her, then the Jedi council kind of sealed Theron's power of the Dark Side and lied to him, saying he was not force sensitive at all. The SI wanted to use this to corrupt Theron but later changed her idea, thought she should corrupt Satele first then worry about her son.

 

Darth Jadus and IA was behind this, IA used Star Cabal's data and found out Theron's real identity and leaked it to SI. Their goal is to steal the superweapon the silencer's technology from SI and make Satele Shan Jadus' servant(IA made clear that she would be under the IA).

Edited November 5, 2012 by Slowpokeking

This poses a problem. Hasn't it been established that Theron really was not Force sensitive at all? This, for me, would be taking a huge liberty unless you were to state that he is, infact not Force sensitive. I also don't see how Satele would even do such a thing. She even stated in her own journal that she fears Malgus and does not want to face him again.

 

Now my next question is, how old is Theron in your story?

This poses a problem. Hasn't it been established that Theron really was not Force sensitive at all? This, for me, would be taking a huge liberty unless you were to state that he is, infact not Force sensitive. I also don't see how Satele would even do such a thing. She even stated in her own journal that she fears Malgus and does not want to face him again.

 

Now my next question is, how old is Theron in your story?

 

In the comic, the Jedi said such thing yes but they could lie about it. And with his link with the Force severed he indeed was no different than a non sensitive. And it's not a very big deal, if you want him to be totally non sensitive it's ok to change it.

 

Well Satele Shan grew stronger and stronger, she could fear him from the beginning but conquer her fear later, at least temporarily.

 

It's 3640 BBY, he's 31-32 I guess.

In the comic, the Jedi said such thing yes but they could lie about it. And with his link with the Force severed he indeed was no different than a non sensitive. And it's not a very big deal, if you want him to be totally non sensitive it's ok to change it.

 

Well Satele Shan grew stronger and stronger, she could fear him from the beginning but conquer her fear later, at least temporarily.

 

It's 3640 BBY, he's 31-32 I guess.

 

So would he be that old in your story? Because if you are basing this around your Inquistor, Warrior and BH in the game then the Knight would be old enough to be the one to make the baby. But if this takes place about 20 years earlier then your game characters would be pretty young themselves. I still have a problem with Satele and malgus getting together like this, but it's your story. I'm just trying to help you flesh it out and make it work. Can't have a story that makes little to no sense and flows like a frozen river up a mountain in the middle of winter on Hoth.

Let's put aside the fact that this plot is completely out of character for both Malgus and Satele. This fanfic could be some sort of speculative fiction, i.e. "What if ... ?"

 

You still have a problem with the story because Theron Shan's father is a known figure in the game, and it's not Malgus. If you want to know who he is, then click the spoiler. Otherwise, read Annihilation when it releases.

 

 

 

 

So, if you're doing a "What If" story, then realize that your Theron Shan (after all, Satele may still use that name if it has no connection to his actual father) is not the Theron Shan that's in the comics and books. He's a character purely of your own devising, sharing the name of an SIS agent in the actual EU.

So would he be that old in your story? Because if you are basing this around your Inquistor, Warrior and BH in the game then the Knight would be old enough to be the one to make the baby. But if this takes place about 20 years earlier then your game characters would be pretty young themselves. I still have a problem with Satele and malgus getting together like this, but it's your story. I'm just trying to help you flesh it out and make it work. Can't have a story that makes little to no sense and flows like a frozen river up a mountain in the middle of winter on Hoth.

 

The story started in 3640 BBY. But Satele Shan made that deal with Malgus years ago, they just discovered the fact.

Let's put aside the fact that this plot is completely out of character for both Malgus and Satele. This fanfic could be some sort of speculative fiction, i.e. "What if ... ?"

 

You still have a problem with the story because Theron Shan's father is a known figure in the game, and it's not Malgus. If you want to know who he is, then click the spoiler. Otherwise, read Annihilation when it releases.

 

 

Theron Shan's father is none other than the Supreme Commander of the Republic military, Jace Malcom. He's the trooper in the "Hope" cinematic that sets off a concussion charge in Malgus' face.

 

 

So, if you're doing a "What If" story, then realize that your Theron Shan (after all, Satele may still use that name if it has no connection to his actual father) is not the Theron Shan that's in the comics and books. He's a character purely of your own devising, sharing the name of an SIS agent in the actual EU.

 

Yeah I saw the preview, Satele said he was the dad but she could be lying to hide Malgus.

Yeah I saw the preview, Satele said he was the dad but she could be lying to hide Malgus.

 

Lying about the father is out of character for Satele. You may as well have her lie about the child being hers. She hides her pregnancy and birth from the Order entirely. Your Theron would not know who his real parents are, kind of like Luke Skywalker.

 

Your story is very problematic, especially for me. I know fanfics are just that, fictional works by fans, and that you can do pretty much anything you want. But as I said earlier, I do my best to avoid taking liberties, especially huge ones, with the lore and canon. That alone is causing me problems in trying to figure out how your plot would work and make sense.

 

I guess if you don't care about canon at all then it is possible to make this into a good read. But Satele making a secret deal to have Malgus' child for the sake of bringing down the Empire from within is just so far out there. I just don't see her selling her soul to the devil nor do I see him making a deal with a Jedi. It is so out of character for them. Malgus would rather stab Shan in the back, which is exactly what he would do right after she gives birth.

 

Here's a thought. What if, instead of Theron being the creation of Satele and Malgus, you go ahead with your kidnapping of Satele? She is lured into a trap thinking her son, or mybe her grandchild, was captured and she goes to rescue them. The trap is sprung, she is taken prisoner and a ransom is made to Theron. His Force sensitive child for his mother's life. Malgus gets the kid, does his thing yet he and Satele still make the deal you proposed, just that there is no mating between them?

 

I know, I am pitching ideas to you and you are probably going to tell me to piss off, lol. Just trying to help. I love to write my own fanfics and like to help others when i can.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Kilikaa

Lying about the father is out of character for Satele. You may as well have her lie about the child being hers. She hides her pregnancy and birth from the Order entirely. Your Theron would not know who his real parents are, kind of like Luke Skywalker.

 

Your story is very problematic, especially for me. I know fanfics are just that, fictional works by fans, and that you can do pretty much anything you want. But as I said earlier, I do my best to avoid taking liberties, especially huge ones, with the lore and canon. That alone is causing me problems in trying to figure out how your plot would work and make sense.

 

I guess if you don't care about canon at all then it is possible to make this into a good read. But Satele making a secret deal to have Malgus' child for the sake of bringing down the Empire from within is just so far out there. I just don't see her selling her soul to the devil nor do I see him making a deal with a Jedi. It is so out of character for them. Malgus would rather stab Shan in the back, which is exactly what he would do right after she gives birth.

 

Here's a thought. What if, instead of Theron being the creation of Satele and Malgus, you go ahead with your kidnapping of Satele? She is lured into a trap thinking her son, or mybe her grandchild, was captured and she goes to rescue them. The trap is sprung, she is taken prisoner and a ransom is made to Theron. His Force sensitive child for his mother's life. Malgus gets the kid, does his thing yet he and Satele still make the deal you proposed, just that there is no mating between them?

 

I know, I am pitching ideas to you and you are probably going to tell me to piss off, lol. Just trying to help. I love to write my own fanfics and like to help others when i can.

 

I care about the canon a lot, we are just having different opinion upon characters' persona I guess.

 

As imperial player, I don't understand where did the "good Jedi" concept come from, maybe the republic story only showed the corruption of the senate but not the Jedi itself? From Imperial quest I saw what horrible thing did the Jedi do and that's not done just by individual, at least quite a few masters were involved, the battlemaster was even behind all the framed crimes and ambushes of the BH character, sure Satele Shan was not directly involved but as the head of the jedi order I think she should also be responsible for those. That's why I thought Satele is overall on the good side, but that does not mean she would totally say "NO" to dirty or even cruel plans.

 

I'm not sure did you play through those quests, I will love to hear your opinion on these things.

 

Let Darth Nox capture her would be better than Malgus since she(I use a female twilik) was cunning and young.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Slowpokeking

I care about the canon a lot, we are just having different opinion upon characters' persona I guess.

 

As imperial player, I don't understand where did the "good Jedi" concept come from, maybe the republic story only showed the corruption of the senate but not the Jedi itself? From Imperial quest I saw what horrible thing did the Jedi do and that's not done just by individual, at least quite a few masters were involved, the battlemaster was even behind all the framed crimes and ambushes of the BH character, sure Satele Shan was not directly involved but as the head of the jedi order I think she should also be responsible for those. That's why I thought Satele is overall on the good side, but that does not mean she would totally say "NO" to dirty or even cruel plans.

 

I'm not sure did you play through those quests, I will love to hear your opinion on these things.

 

Let Darth Nox capture her would be better than Malgus since she(I use a female twilik) was cunning and young.

I have finished the Consular, Trooper, Agent and Inquisitor lines so far. I am currently working on both the Knight and Warrior, both of which are level 37. My Bh is only 17right now, so unlike you I have not gone through much of that story.

 

I agree, to an extent, that Satele would consider dirty tricks in battle. She would, however, be against cruel plans since it would go against what she believes. The Jedi who do underhanded things pay a price. Yes, Shan is responsible for the overall actions of the Order. That doesn't mean she condones the actions taken by Jedi in the field.

 

Satele is not the kind of person to be cruel. Mating with Malgus and birthing a child for the sake of ending the Empire would be cruel. She could never put any child through that, let alone her own. Look at the Black talon flashpoint. She said she disabled three dreadnaughts. She could have ordered them destroyed but she didn't. That right there says something about her character.

I have finished the Consular, Trooper, Agent and Inquisitor lines so far. I am currently working on both the Knight and Warrior, both of which are level 37. My Bh is only 17right now, so unlike you I have not gone through much of that story.

 

I agree, to an extent, that Satele would consider dirty tricks in battle. She would, however, be against cruel plans since it would go against what she believes. The Jedi who do underhanded things pay a price. Yes, Shan is responsible for the overall actions of the Order. That doesn't mean she condones the actions taken by Jedi in the field.

 

Satele is not the kind of person to be cruel. Mating with Malgus and birthing a child for the sake of ending the Empire would be cruel. She could never put any child through that, let alone her own. Look at the Black talon flashpoint. She said she disabled three dreadnaughts. She could have ordered them destroyed but she didn't. That right there says something about her character.

 

Ok I will tell you the story about it.

 

 

 

 

Sure she didn't destroy those dreadnaughts and it might totally break the treaty if she did so. Since you had imperial character, you should have done the Foundry right? You see what was Revan doing there, he wanted to wipe out 98% of the imperial population, that was more cruel than most of the Sith I've seen but the Jedi were still aiding him, there were a few masters there. Satele Shan had to be responsible for this as well.

 

Also why is it cruel? It's not killing anybody, the child would have some love, he just had to fight the empire like many others did.

 

Ok let's put it aside, do you think she would fall to Darkness like Bastilla did?

Edited November 5, 2012 by Slowpokeking

Just to clear something up, Satele is not the leader of the Republic. She is the leader of the Jedi Order. The Chancellor acts without her approval all the time. In fact, Much of the Republic actually looks down on the Jedi, since their move to Tython was considered "abandonment" of Coruscant by many.

Just to clear something up, Satele is not the leader of the Republic. She is the leader of the Jedi Order. The Chancellor acts without her approval all the time. In fact, Much of the Republic actually looks down on the Jedi, since their move to Tython was considered "abandonment" of Coruscant by many.

 

The Jedi were directly involved in it, the killing of those hunters were done by the jedi under the command of the battlemaster Jun Seros. The Chancellor said Master Jun Seros was behind those wrong crimes and made it personal.

 

I'm not saying it's very evil or unforgivable, it just showed the jedi in TOR's era could be cruel and dirty, even the chancellor said those operations were "atrocious".

Edited November 5, 2012 by Slowpokeking

Folks have already, quite eloquently, explained the characterization issues. They gave you some good advice, so please do think about it.

 

This particular pairing is very problematic for reasons besides that, though, too. There's nothing at all wrong with a character who has an NPC for a parent. I have one, other folks have written some. It can be done well. However, you've taken two of the most influential and powerful NPCs, who are enemies, and made them hook up and have a kid. That's a BIG red flag that you're writing a hardcore Mary Sue. Plus, these people are very famous and have a lot of responsibility - there's just no way they'd be able to sneak off and secretly have a child. Someone, somewhere, would find out.

 

You can certainly write a story about a Sith and a Jedi having a relationship, maybe even having an agreement like the one you described. But those would have to be people who weren't the leaders of their entire Orders. Probably at least one would be low-ranking or a newcomer to the Sith or Jedi at the time of their relationship. So you could write about someone like Darth Baras having a child with a 19-year-old Jedi padawan, or Nomen Karr knocking up a Sith apprentice.

 

From a storytelling perspective, I wouldn't want to write about Malgus and Satele anyway. There's already tons written about them, and SWTOR is chock full of really interesting NPCs who you could develop your own way. I would so much rather read about someone's unique (but believable) take on some Darth I ran into on a sidequest than read yet another story about Malgus and/or Satele. It gives you a lot more freedom when you're writing your story as well. Even some of the more important NPCs in the class stories don't get that much development, meaning you could give them whatever background you wanted. I think I could name 20 NPCs off the top of my head who I find way more intriguing than either Malgus or Satele.

Folks have already, quite eloquently, explained the characterization issues. They gave you some good advice, so please do think about it.

 

This particular pairing is very problematic for reasons besides that, though, too. There's nothing at all wrong with a character who has an NPC for a parent. I have one, other folks have written some. It can be done well. However, you've taken two of the most influential and powerful NPCs, who are enemies, and made them hook up and have a kid. That's a BIG red flag that you're writing a hardcore Mary Sue. Plus, these people are very famous and have a lot of responsibility - there's just no way they'd be able to sneak off and secretly have a child. Someone, somewhere, would find out.

 

You can certainly write a story about a Sith and a Jedi having a relationship, maybe even having an agreement like the one you described. But those would have to be people who weren't the leaders of their entire Orders. Probably at least one would be low-ranking or a newcomer to the Sith or Jedi at the time of their relationship. So you could write about someone like Darth Baras having a child with a 19-year-old Jedi padawan, or Nomen Karr knocking up a Sith apprentice.

 

From a storytelling perspective, I wouldn't want to write about Malgus and Satele anyway. There's already tons written about them, and SWTOR is chock full of really interesting NPCs who you could develop your own way. I would so much rather read about someone's unique (but believable) take on some Darth I ran into on a sidequest than read yet another story about Malgus and/or Satele. It gives you a lot more freedom when you're writing your story as well. Even some of the more important NPCs in the class stories don't get that much development, meaning you could give them whatever background you wanted. I think I could name 20 NPCs off the top of my head who I find way more intriguing than either Malgus or Satele.

 

Thx for the advice, but that "relationship" happened long ago(3670 BBY since Theron Shan was around 30 in the game), Satele had not been the head of the Jedi Order yet, and Malgus had not been that powerful yet. Sure they are the most influential TOR Jedi/Sith from our view but not in the Republic/Empire around 3670 BBY.

 

And I think you and some other guys probably misunderstood, the story is really not focused on their relationship and I plan just to let Malgus make a cameo. Satele Shan and Darth Nox would be the most important characters.

 

The reason I thought about this "relationship" is that such "relationship" could let Satele Shan come by her own rather than refuse to show up or bring a lot of Jedi.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking

I've been reading this and was hoping somebody would say this. I mean, i dont want to stop you from making it and you can as, persay, a fanfiction that goes away from realism but my main concern is:

 

Why are you asking for advice/criticism?

 

From what i'm seeing people are trying to warn you about realism and i even saw some good ideas to fix that but you keep shooting all advice down. Like i said if you wanna make it sure but if you're not going to change your mind about any advice given to you, then asking for it is kind of pointless.

 

Just my opinion.

I've been reading this and was hoping somebody would say this. I mean, i dont want to stop you from making it and you can as, persay, a fanfiction that goes away from realism but my main concern is:

 

Why are you asking for advice/criticism?

 

From what i'm seeing people are trying to warn you about realism and i even saw some good ideas to fix that but you keep shooting all advice down. Like i said if you wanna make it sure but if you're not going to change your mind about any advice given to you, then asking for it is kind of pointless.

 

Just my opinion.

 

I want to hear about the advice about what happened after the capture like I said in the OP

since then?

, but I also have the right to explain my current plot. I even said if you don't like it let's talk about what could happen next. I do regret for not just saying Satele got captured and what goes next. Edited November 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking