Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Optimal Sin tank rotation for 2.0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Optimal Sin tank rotation for 2.0

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
04.04.2013 , 01:01 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
Just in EC and TFB, bosses where a shadow will be able to use tk completely almost on time are perhaps 3: the writhing horror, the TFB (kinda, but the phases are long enough to approximate) and vorgath. All other bosses require the tank to move very often (or do KBs or other forms of interrupts, even indirect like red circles).
This is where player experience comes into play. An experienced Shadow is going to know the times when knockback and ground effects are coming in order to prevent them from interrupting HSx3 TkT: if I want to use TkT during a phase where I might have to move to get away from red circles, I just use Resilience which lets me ignore said red circles; if there is knockback being bandied about, I simply learn when it's going to happen and delay TkT by 1-2 GCDs to prevent it from being interrupted by said knockback (and, properly played, it also doesn't interfere with further HS stack generation so there's no real negative side effect).

In every fight I have, TkT represents either the highest or second highest damage ability I get (both by a comparatively slim margin of less than 5% difference in total damage). Project swaps places with it depending on if I'm in a fight with long periods of heavy movement (twin tanks, it's hard to get a channel while you're kiting the rods, but it's easy to get in Project/Slow Time/Force Breach) or short bursts of combat where I'm liable to get TkT channels cut off by targets dying (EC Kephess, Vorgath). In fights where there aren't extended periods where I'm largely incapable of using TkT, TkT wins out handily. Of course, in 2.0, Project is losing 15% additional damage (Bombardment is going from 15% damage and 15% threat to 30% threat and 30% reduction in cost) so threat on it is getting *slightly* worse (from 1.3225 to 1.3) and the damage is getting noticeably worse. As such, TkT is, from a damage perspective, getting even better by comparison.

Keep in mind, I wasn't just pointing out that TkT does amazing *damage*. Of all of your attacks, barring Spinning Strike, TkT has the best cost effectiveness (30 Force to do more damage/threat than 2 casts of Project or Slow Time) *and* mitigation contributions (in boss situations, the self heal accounts for more damage mitigated than the 5% acc debuff *or* the 5% damage debuff). There is some argument that TkT is depending on the use of other Force Powers to be useful, but, for the purposes of our model, TkT is only "off CD" after 3 uses of Project/Slow Time so it's not really on point.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
04.04.2013 , 03:11 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
This is where player experience comes into play. An experienced Shadow is going to know the times when knockback and ground effects are coming in order to prevent them from interrupting HSx3 TkT.
True, up to a point. However you look at it you're, at the very least, delaying its use, which is still a deviation from the model (which was kinda my point). There are also situations were you're not certain on when something is about to happen (IE shield phases in twin tanks are predictable but the phase switch may depend on the tank you're not on, making an accurate prediction unlikely. Red circles in T&Z are somewhat predictable but depending on how many circles you get you may have more or less time to actually channel TK), and situations where it's almost impossible to get off a full TK (tanking firebrand in NiM due to the constant KB, or basically the whole kephess the undying fight).
Light Knights: Gecko - Syed - Vor'sann - Joya
Nightmare's Legion: Anhess - Avilus - Wittard - Schroedinger

Bilirubin's Avatar


Bilirubin
07.11.2013 , 11:30 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The two priorities he compared were without and with Shadow Strike. In their basic form, they're largely identical to the existing priorities; the only reason they're different is because Shadow tanks will finally have the Force to actually use DS (without crippling their ability to use everything else).

The math he did compared the difference between the self healing and damage and found that there isn't really an appreciable difference between them (the pure DS string managed *slightly* better average speed on the TkT cycle but it was something like .1 seconds faster) whereas the damage when using Shadow Strike was noticeably better (something like 5% total, iirc).

The optimal priority is...

1. Force Breach (for debuff)
2. TkT (w/ 3 stacks of HS)
3. Slow Time (on CD)
4. Project (on CD)
5. Shadow Strike (w/ Shadow Wrap)
6. Double Strike (Force > 30)
7. Saber Strike
Late to the party, but a question. You say project on cd, but when I last played it was project on proc. Has this changed in 2.x?
Cyannin Level 55 Shadow | Rubinin Level 50 Gunslinger | Mikuri Level 55 Sentinel | Vertatin Level 47 Commando | PURgE
Scartina Level 17 Marauder
The Bastion

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
07.12.2013 , 02:02 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Bilirubin View Post
Late to the party, but a question. You say project on cd, but when I last played it was project on proc. Has this changed in 2.x?
It hasn't actually been Project on proc for well over a year ("Project on proc" was pretty much only at release before we started actually calculated optimal attack priority rather than the *intended* priority).

The reason you use Project on CD rather than proc is because the value of Project is derived from the fact that it generates HS stacks. Yes, you'll do less damage per Project *use*, but you more than make up for that by minimizing the cycle time on TkT. HSx3 TkT is a *massive* portion of *super cheap* damage and threat, so cheap and damaging that it makes up for the comparatively inefficient use Project and *then* some.

You'll still get the procs sometimes (since you'll be swimming in Force so that you pretty much never touch Saber Strike and just use DS and Shadow Strike when Project and Slow Time are on CD), but, rather than being useful for the auto-crit, you actually want them for the Project CD reset, which reduces the cycle time on TkT.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Bilirubin's Avatar


Bilirubin
07.12.2013 , 08:17 AM | #15
Awesome, thanks once again Kitru!
Cyannin Level 55 Shadow | Rubinin Level 50 Gunslinger | Mikuri Level 55 Sentinel | Vertatin Level 47 Commando | PURgE
Scartina Level 17 Marauder
The Bastion