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Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

dontbeswg's Avatar


dontbeswg
08.06.2017 , 12:33 AM | #1231
Quote: Originally Posted by Icykill_ View Post
You can't post if you aren't subbed... lol
didn't know that, guess it will be running out soon... that's a poor choice to not allow your whole player base to speak on matters of the game.... maybe that's a reason you can't get a lot of them back...

dontbeswg's Avatar


dontbeswg
08.06.2017 , 12:36 AM | #1232
Quote: Originally Posted by masterceil View Post
Literally ten pages of people force-feeding the troll that is dontbeswg. Mf gotta have a fois gras liver by now. What are any of you continuously responding to the troll hoping to accomplish here? Can we just ignore it and keep the thread on track?
I think the thread is on track, having a pretty strong discussion about whether the game is better off on it's course or needs to take a strong turn back toward multiplayer content.

I lol'd at the diseased liver.

Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
08.06.2017 , 01:06 AM | #1233
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
That is a bit rich from someone who hasn't shied away from ad hominems himself.
Of the few people who post here, I'm slightly surprised you're feeding.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
The reality is that SWTOR focused a lot more on the solo players with the last two expansions. I personally believe they could've gotten away with it but they ruined it for themselves with GC. Sure they've done a lot since releasing that preposterous gearing system to change it to something more viable but let's be honest, it's still a bit of a mess.
I'm in two minds here, if they had released an operation or two (this is coming from a non-raider) then perhaps they may well have managed to get away with it. Instead they spent millions on a trailer? It's great they're advertising the game, but the mismatch of the budget between marketing and developing needs re-balancing.

I think most people know my views on GC, great in some respects for the casual players, very poorly implemented and still lots of developer time to be wasted bringing it to anywhere near the standard it should have launched at. The lack of polish or forethought shows with GC. I still have no idea what BioWare were thinking, theoretically it should have saved them developer time longer time.

Maybe they'll listen to feedback prior to making monumental mistakes like this in the future. Who knows.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
Bringing out more group content again seems to be the new policy. It's certainly not at high speed but it's a clear change in direction. There are still a few major issues in various parts in the game like raiding, like pvp, like housing, like GSF that need to be addressed. And BW certainly don't seem to have the resources currently to do all that and certainly not within a timely fashion.
While the new direction and refocus onto group content is definitely welcome, I also think they need to be producing story content as well. Let alone taking a time out to fix all of the bugs in the game. Goes right back to the polish comment above. I expect better from a BioWare studio, which is why when it comes to any new releases by any BioWare studio (even if merged), the chances are I'll hold off completely.

Thanks to everyone who has used my Refer a Friend link over the years, may the force be with you.

dontbeswg's Avatar


dontbeswg
08.06.2017 , 01:06 AM | #1234
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
The reality is that SWTOR focused a lot more on the solo players with the last two expansions. I personally believe they could've gotten away with it but they ruined it for themselves with GC. Sure they've done a lot since releasing that preposterous gearing system to change it to something more viable but let's be honest, it's still a bit of a mess.

Bringing out more group content again seems to be the new policy. It's certainly not at high speed but it's a clear change in direction. There are still a few major issues in various parts in the game like raiding, like pvp, like housing, like GSF that need to be addressed. And BW certainly don't seem to have the resources currently to do all that and certainly not within a timely fashion.
You're exactly right, I would appreciate EA allowing Keith to be realistic with us. I know that would be suicide for them to come out and admit that they don't have the man power and budget to bring this game back to the level it was at it's zenith (budget and development) however it would be nice to know what they are realistically capable of at this point of delivering not just where they want to go in the short term.

As far as ad hominem usage, you know at times it's appropriate (yes that is contradictory). In this case the character of the user base is in-line with the choices they make about what they enjoy playing and championing. Its not a nice argument to have but it's a necessary one that if players decide to abandon the community aspect of these games they will die out and in fact they may be dead.

The short and long of it, people have opinions they are passionate about, at this point if you want to engage me in conversation truly consider whether making this game more single player is the best option. For those of you who agree the multiplayer aspect needs to be furthered, speak up... I guess...

I think you made my last request mute with the fact that this might be the top speed of development from this point on, which is sadly just not going to cut it.

dontbeswg's Avatar


dontbeswg
08.06.2017 , 01:20 AM | #1235
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
I'm in two minds here, if they had released an operation or two (this is coming from a non-raider) then perhaps they may well have managed to get away with it. Instead they spent millions on a trailer? It's great they're advertising the game, but the mismatch of the budget between marketing and developing needs re-balancing..
The larger question is whether people were coming to play a star wars game because of the movies or did the trailer bring in a lot of new players on it's on? I think the trailer really did make a lot of people curious about the game, however the error is that they made a hallow game.

If this game released 2 new operations in 4.0 and 5.0, this game would not be in the shape it is in. The decision to not release ops was the wrong one considering they had the budget to make the story content they did.

Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
I think most people know my views on GC, great in some respects for the casual players
This logic really doesn't line up, ultimately you spend more time grinding CXP than you would learning how to play your class, joining a guild, and raiding mid level content or hell even story if you want to casually do... whatever the heck casual players do. I don't understand why players that do anything beyond flashpoints or heroics need top tier gear when crafted pieces or story tier gear will do...



Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
While the new direction and refocus onto group content is definitely welcome, I also think they need to be producing story content as well.
They are releasing story content at a speed no different than any other point in the game history. What you are asking for is more than they usually do. You seem to have an understanding that Bioware is under staffing and budgeting this game...

I would love the chance to argue to EA that they have two paths: 1) close shop on this game and try again with another star wars mmo that has a better engine and more modern features (open world, organic RP, etc) or
2) Bring the budget back up to a triple A level mmo and fully develop the game.

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
08.06.2017 , 01:29 AM | #1236
Quote: Originally Posted by dontbeswg View Post
You're exactly right, I would appreciate EA allowing Keith to be realistic with us. I know that would be suicide for them to come out and admit that they don't have the man power and budget to bring this game back to the level it was at it's zenith (budget and development) however it would be nice to know what they are realistically capable of at this point of delivering not just where they want to go in the short term.

As far as ad hominem usage, you know at times it's appropriate (yes that is contradictory). In this case the character of the user base is in-line with the choices they make about what they enjoy playing and championing. Its not a nice argument to have but it's a necessary one that if players decide to abandon the community aspect of these games they will die out and in fact they may be dead.

The short and long of it, people have opinions they are passionate about, at this point if you want to engage me in conversation truly consider whether making this game more single player is the best option. For those of you who agree the multiplayer aspect needs to be furthered, speak up... I guess...

I think you made my last request mute with the fact that this might be the top speed of development from this point on, which is sadly just not going to cut it.
It might indeed be a moot point because it's unclear what, if anything, will move EAware to invest more into this game as far as resources are concerned. I stopped buying cartel packs a year ago because I saw it as an investment into the game and I didn't see them investing their revenue back into the development of the game. So giving them more money doesn't seem to help.

I don't believe ad hominems actually work because they invariably lead to taking the conversation away from the topic. Also if that truly is your opinion, then just stick to using them without accusing others of doing the same. It's not that you use ad hominems but what I find rather inconsistent is that you use ad hominems and accuse others of using them. In my logic you can only take a moral high ground if you stick to it yourself.

What we have learned from 5.0 is that BW can be obstinate but that the GC system as it released drove a lot of people away. I remember how quickly they were there with livestreams and promises to make changes to it. That was very uncharacteristic of BW so it was clear that 5.0 was poorly received overall. They also changed their direction to group content. It's a a slow rate but the new ops bosses are challenging at least and we'll get a new FP that seems to be a tough one as well.

Group content aside (which I think is essential in an MMO), what this game lacked most was challenge. Everything (except some of the harder raiding content) had become soo easy, it became meaningless. So in that sense I am glad to see that some meaning is starting to come back to the game again.
Don't freak out, I'm just here by the grace of a referal. Nothing more.

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
08.06.2017 , 01:40 AM | #1237
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Of the few people who post here, I'm slightly surprised you're feeding.
Because I have reasons to believe he's not simply trolling.

Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
I'm in two minds here, if they had released an operation or two (this is coming from a non-raider) then perhaps they may well have managed to get away with it. Instead they spent millions on a trailer? It's great they're advertising the game, but the mismatch of the budget between marketing and developing needs re-balancing.
Well, at the time they were focused on their story and I think it was a last ditch attempt to get people into the game. You do that with marketing. I personally enjoyed the video and by the end of KotET, the one positive thing out of the story (except for the Valkorion soap to be over with) is the development of Vaylin, who then ironically gets killed off. That was the biggest mistake they made.

I don't think it's a mismatch between budgets, I think there is money if they want there to be. It's just that EAware doesn't want to invest too much into development of the game. I think in fact the success of the cartel packs let them get away with that for quite a while. Because even with a low population they were turning a nice profit. So why get better then? Until 5.0 hit and they singlehandedly caused a near death experience with galactic command and ostracizing f2p/preferred players from endgame completely.

Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
I think most people know my views on GC, great in some respects for the casual players, very poorly implemented and still lots of developer time to be wasted bringing it to anywhere near the standard it should have launched at. The lack of polish or forethought shows with GC. I still have no idea what BioWare were thinking, theoretically it should have saved them developer time longer time.
GC would have been extremely successful as an addition to raid and pvp gearing. The mistake was making it one system for all. GC should've rewarded completing quests (story, side, heroic...all of them), it should've rewarded FPs (making them relevant again) and basically every single activity that exists outside of warzones and operations. Those two should have kept the 4.0 gearing system MINUS the priority ops.

Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Maybe they'll listen to feedback prior to making monumental mistakes like this in the future. Who knows.

While the new direction and refocus onto group content is definitely welcome, I also think they need to be producing story content as well. Let alone taking a time out to fix all of the bugs in the game. Goes right back to the polish comment above. I expect better from a BioWare studio, which is why when it comes to any new releases by any BioWare studio (even if merged), the chances are I'll hold off completely.
Agreed. There still needs to be story and there still needs to be polish and QoL stuff happening. But story at the expense of pretty much everything else puts too much pressure on the story and knowing that you can't please everyone with a single story line, it's like putting all your eggs in one basket while knowing a lot of people won't go near that basket.

There seems to be a lack of thinkers at BW. People who can do impact analyses you know.
Don't freak out, I'm just here by the grace of a referal. Nothing more.

dontbeswg's Avatar


dontbeswg
08.06.2017 , 01:59 AM | #1238
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
It might indeed be a moot point because it's unclear what, if anything, will move EAware to invest more into this game as far as resources are concerned. I stopped buying cartel packs a year ago because I saw it as an investment into the game and I didn't see them investing their revenue back into the development of the game. So giving them more money doesn't seem to help.
The direction of this game in 4.0 was planned out by EA, I think starting in 4.0 the game was designed to be operated cheaper and front loaded (content early with trickle of it late). It has become clear that their resources for the mmo division are in Anthem. They are even having review companies hype it as a "star wars type universe". Sadly, they seem not understand nothing beats the real mccoy, and they would have been better off ending the life of this game and rolling over to a new one. I would love to see an inheritance feature, I've suggested this for WoW, have whatever character line you create in their new game receive benefits (money/rewards) for playing the previous game (more for those with further investment).


Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
I don't believe ad hominems actually work because they invariably lead to taking the conversation away from the topic. Also if that truly is your opinion, then just stick to using them without accusing others of doing the same. It's not that you use ad hominems but what I find rather inconsistent is that you use ad hominems and accuse others of using them. In my logic you can only take a moral high ground if you stick to it yourself.
I'm truly angry at players for what happened during 4.0, it's like seeing a crime take place and cheering. What upsets me the most is this venom toward raiders and pvpers. These groups don't ever say eliminate story or content they deem stupid, but these groups of players that enjoy that content love to spit out that raiding and pvp content go away... all because they are upset with their inability to play those aspects of the game. Other games don't allow players with mediocre abilities to dictate the direction of the game, but these do, and it's maddening. Not saying I'm morally superior, I have a condo on a lake front in hades... but I'm sure a lot of these saints in here will be slumming it down there with me

Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
What we have learned from 5.0 is that BW can be obstinate but that the GC system as it released drove a lot of people away. I remember how quickly they were there with livestreams and promises to make changes to it. That was very uncharacteristic of BW so it was clear that 5.0 was poorly received overall. They also changed their direction to group content. It's a a slow rate but the new ops bosses are challenging at least and we'll get a new FP that seems to be a tough one as well.
EA is a poorly run triple A company, they have been for the 3 decades I have consumed their games even though they have some of the greatest franchises under their house. I think they were sold a bill of goods by Ben Irvin that this crate system would net them overwatch popularity, and like any con man that is found out... he was executed.

Again, Anthem is there focus now... let's pray they make another star wars mmo in the near near feature if at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
Group content aside (which I think is essential in an MMO), what this game lacked most was challenge. Everything (except some of the harder raiding content) had become soo easy, it became meaningless. So in that sense I am glad to see that some meaning is starting to come back to the game again.
Two things have to happen for the game to get harder: 1) The skilled player base needs to return or the more and less likely 2) The current player base gets better...

Here again is where my frustration, over a decade of mmo game playing frustration, lies... too many players of these types of games refuse to improve. I don't understand it... I don't get the refusal to "get good". This has nothing to do with casual... people casually read!

The internet is full of information, this forum bank you are using to whine at me has tons of information and where to consume more... these can all be absorbed and applied at a minimally invasive means. The "casual player" plays often enough (1-3 days a week 30-45 minutes a day) this is more than enough time to apply 10-15 minutes of reading information.

With this in mind,the conclusion can only be a willful refusal to improvement... but as many of you point out you don't care that it causes others harm.

In my game play lifetime, I would love to cure this mmo epidemic :P I guess I'm not the guy but I'm sure as heck not wrong that this is the root of the problem that plagues these games.

dontbeswg's Avatar


dontbeswg
08.06.2017 , 02:01 AM | #1239
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
Because I have reasons to believe he's not simply trolling.
I'm really not trolling, I may not be accurate on accusations but I am pretty mad about the state of the game and those who encourage the path back to 4.0.

dontbeswg's Avatar


dontbeswg
08.06.2017 , 02:10 AM | #1240
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post

Agreed. There still needs to be story and there still needs to be polish and QoL stuff happening. But story at the expense of pretty much everything else puts too much pressure on the story
This is what I keep trying to emphasize. Even single player games have a shelf life and if you think about it huge gaps between sequels! This game really has released more story content, even prior to 4.0, than a lot of single player games prior to DLC.

These games can't budget, even if they are thriving, to come out with single player and multiplayer content at a clip that pleases both. I keep saying this, and whether it is popular you have to think about it....

MULTIPLAYER GAMES NEED TO FOCUS ON MULTIPLAYER CONTENT FIRST!

MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAMES THAT AREN'T MASSIVE AREN'T DON'T MAKE SENSE AND DIE

I get that this game had the desire to bridge the game between a single player game and a multiplayer, but 1.0 really showed it was a pipedream to ignore multiplayer.