Frankly, I will admit... I'd take Dasty's review of stuff over anyone elses, because so far Dasty has been a font of wisdom and experience in my opinion. And I am saying this with the utmost sincerity, mind you.

Sure, his reviews are probably accurate from his personal point of view and there's nothing wrong with agreeing with his viewpoint or feeling it's 100% right.

That being said, all reviews of the 5.10 gearing system are 100% subjection and based off the opinion of every person commenting on the topic.

One opinion is no more meaningful than another, and I don't need to be an expert 5.10 participant to point out the flaws and details of the new system that do not fit my style of play or that make the game less enjoyable for me (and many others for that matter).

There are no right or wrong answers when discussing 5.10, nor is any one player's review the tome of truth regarding 5.10.

I also want to point out, I never said anything remotely close to wanting the game "to tank." That incensed me a bit, because my criticisms are aimed at the game for exactly the opposite reason.

I want changes I view as bad to be recognized and things I think would improve the game to be considered. I do this because I care a lot about the game.

Yeah I am ready to call it. I hate the gearing system now. I got 5 bad relics in a row...

That means someone who is not unlucky, is about 15 crystals ahead of me for no reason. That is A LOT considering how hard it is to get the crystals.

I sortof get the RNG, but at least make it RNG with equal chances instead of mainly relics and implants. At the very least greatly increase the reward for destroying 252 gear.

Or even better, do not use RNG when losing means you get NOTHING. At least in the disinticrates you often get something useful.

I am far more fanboy than hater, but this is just a stupid system which discourages me from playing endgame stuff. The set bonus bug is not helping either...

Yeah I am ready to call it. I hate the gearing system now. I got 5 bad relics in a row...

That means someone who is not unlucky, is about 15 crystals ahead of me for no reason. That is A LOT considering how hard it is to get the crystals.

 

I sortof get the RNG, but at least make it RNG with equal chances instead of mainly relics and implants. At the very least greatly increase the reward for destroying 252 gear.

 

Or even better, do not use RNG when losing means you get NOTHING. At least in the disinticrates you often get something useful.

 

I am far more fanboy than hater, but this is just a stupid system which discourages me from playing endgame stuff. The set bonus bug is not helping either...

5 bad relics (or roughly 2hrs of playtime) will net 875 UCs, which is almost enough for you to buy 2 MWSs to get a "good" relic. In the not-so-far-off past, people would run ops that took 1-2 hours and come away with no gear at all. Net gains nowadays are much better than they have been - when taken into perspective. Gearing up is a challenge, a time sync, and/or both - its expected. Gearing up to min/max should rightly extend that challenge and time sync even more. Its also expected. The randomness of the system is secondary to accumulation of MWSs from every source available, especially of you seek a very specific piece.

Yeah I am ready to call it. I hate the gearing system now. I got 5 bad relics in a row...

That means someone who is not unlucky, is about 15 crystals ahead of me for no reason. That is A LOT considering how hard it is to get the crystals.

 

I sortof get the RNG, but at least make it RNG with equal chances instead of mainly relics and implants. At the very least greatly increase the reward for destroying 252 gear.

 

Or even better, do not use RNG when losing means you get NOTHING. At least in the disinticrates you often get something useful.

 

I am far more fanboy than hater, but this is just a stupid system which discourages me from playing endgame stuff. The set bonus bug is not helping either...

It’s not worth the time required unless you need it for end game, I’ve decided to wait till they fix the system or 6.0, which ever comes first.

I don’t do MM operations and all other content except pvp is super easy on 248 gear. With Bolster at 252, pvp is relatively even at the moment till we get an influx of 258 players (a lot of pvpers are forgoing using 252;gear and saving for 258)

I’m sure when more people have 258 gear in pvp it will be a pain. But it won’t matter unless they fix this gearing system, especially the set bonus bug because a bunch of us will end up leaving. The writing is on the wall for quite a few pvpers who are playing a wait and see situation. If nothing changes in February 5.10.1 update and there is an increase in more 258 gear players, then I can see more people leave.

BioWare must realise from all the threads and posts that a vast number of players aren’t happy with this system, especially the gearing bug and the change to swapping enhancements and mods to other pieces for min/max reasons.

If they haven’t caught on yet or worse, decide they don’t care about the players feed back, it will cause people to leave, the same as all their other bad decisions since 5.0 was released.

It seems to me that anything with 5.x.x is cursed with problems of one sort or another. I bet they can’t wait to do away with 5.x and get a fresh start with 6.0.

Let’s hope for the games sake and player retention that they are listening to our feed back. The grind isn’t fun for a bunch or us. Pvpers aren’t happy about the system or bugs. The last thing this game needs is more people leaving or continuing to become less fun with every iteration of 5.x.x.

Don’t get me wrong, there have been some good changes or ideas during 5.x, but they are mainly over shadowed by all the bad. The devs need to change this and the perception. The only way they can do this is with more two way communication (Musco, Keith, where are you?) to reduce the bad decisions and/or the reasons for changes that people don’t see any reason for the changes and feel it’s making the game less fun.

Games are meant to be fun. But the whole of 5.x has felt more like a job to me. Not just any job, but one that’s slowly becoming a dead end job that you’d rather call in sick then go to. I’ve played less and less since 5.0 was released. I went from a 40 hours a week player to 10-15 hours a week. If the idea of the grind is too make us play longer, then it’s had the absolute opposite affect on myself and many people I know. My whole guild just up and left the game. I’ve no friends still playing and I had over 30. When asked why they won’t play any more, most of them cite 5.x as the reason.

When the fun dies, people leave. This is something the swtor devs seeming can’t grasp. Grind isn’t fun for some people. Excessive grind isn’t fun for some people who actually like to grind. Excessive grind in place of content is a breaking point for some people who would usually accept excessive grind if there was more content with less bugs and silly changes made (ie gearing).

Of course there will always be people who play the game no matter what garbage BioWare throw at them and they will come to the forums and tell the majority of posters we are all wrong. If BioWare are only making the game for those people, swtors life span will keep decreasing for them too as other people continue to leave over dumb mistakes that could be easily avoided if there was better consultation and two way communication with the community. I’ve even noticed that some of the influencers are starting to question Biowares reluctance to communicate with us or them and what that means for the game.

The dev team seem determined to drive this game into the ground with mistake after mistake that is making it less fun each time they do. People are leaving the game. How many are leaving, we can’t know. But the indications from guilds I speak to is lots of their members aren’t logging in as much or have stopped entirely. Wether those players are still paying for subs or not is the question. If they are and not playing the game, then BioWare won’t care because they continue to get their revenue.

So anyone who is deciding to take an extended break, you should unsub till then so they can see the real number of paying people who are content with the games direction, I would go as far as suggesting people switch to month to month subbing so you can stop paying when you take a break and not have 3-6 months worth of wasted sub time just sitting there. Only then can BioWare get a clear picture on paying player’s satisfaction and retention. I think the real numbers might wake them up.

5 bad relics (or roughly 2hrs of playtime) will net 875 UCs, which is almost enough for you to buy 2 MWSs to get a "good" relic. In the not-so-far-off past, people would run ops that took 1-2 hours and come away with no gear at all. Net gains nowadays are much better than they have been - when taken into perspective. Gearing up is a challenge, a time sync, and/or both - its expected. Gearing up to min/max should rightly extend that challenge and time sync even more. Its also expected. The randomness of the system is secondary to accumulation of MWSs from every source available, especially of you seek a very specific piece.

I appreciate the response, but if you think the problem we have is the time investment...you should read this thread or my post more carefully.

I appreciate the response, but if you think the problem we have is the time investment...you should read this thread or my post more carefully.

Your main point was that you got NOTHING due to RNG, and my post pointed out that you actually received something, even if its progress towards something.

5 bad relics (or roughly 2hrs of playtime) will net 875 UCs, which is almost enough for you to buy 2 MWSs to get a "good" relic. In the not-so-far-off past, people would run ops that took 1-2 hours and come away with no gear at all. Net gains nowadays are much better than they have been - when taken into perspective. Gearing up is a challenge, a time sync, and/or both - its expected. Gearing up to min/max should rightly extend that challenge and time sync even more. Its also expected. The randomness of the system is secondary to accumulation of MWSs from every source available, especially of you seek a very specific piece.

Two MWS cost 1500 UC's if purchased in the same week, so it's not really close to 875. Unless you are suggesting he wait until the next week. If so, that adds 168 hours...?

Two MWS cost 1500 UC's if purchased in the same week, so it's not really close to 875. Unless you are suggesting he wait until the next week. If so, that adds 168 hours...?

500 each week. Adds no time and falls in line with the intentional time gate that BW has created for the majority of players. Or he could do other activities and accumulate enough to spend 1500. After all, his active time investment is still only 30 mins/wk.

In fact, the poster even inferred that time investment is not an issue.

Two MWS cost 1500 UC's if purchased in the same week, so it's not really close to 875. Unless you are suggesting he wait until the next week. If so, that adds 168 hours...?

He is right, your going on the belief you'd buy both in the same week. buy 1 one week, and you are just short of another MWS the next week. Personally I won't waste 1k UC's for one MWS the cost isn't worth it to me.

If you spend it this way 2 MWS cost only 1,000 UC's, not 1,500.

He is right, your going on the belief you'd buy both in the same week. buy 1 one week, and you are just short of another MWS the next week. Personally I won't waste 1k UC's for one MWS the cost isn't worth it to me.

 

If you spend it this way 2 MWS cost only 1,000 UC's, not 1,500.

Yep, personally ive been spending max 500 per pop on multiple toons, to get multiple MWSs at a better rate. The mods/enh are transferable via legacy, so each specific toon you are wanting to gear only needs to collect enough to fulfill the jewelry costs (5×5=25). Other, less important toons can help accumulate MWSs at the lower price for the armor pieces to be transferred.

That is, of course, all dependent on whether you call them jewelry or left side.

I am well aware that 1 MWS per week is only 500 each.

Olag is arguing that 30 mins of time investment is worth 175 UC's. But 875 UC's for 5 weeks of 30 minute work? The actual time investment is in the waiting to buy 1 MWS per week.

But all of this is moot, since Gokkus point seems be that he's close calling it quits because of the RNG factor of getting 5 relics in a row.

Yeah I am ready to call it. I hate the gearing system now. I got 5 bad relics in a row...

I'm not sure what we, as players, have to do to get the devs to notice that we don't like RNG gear boxes. That, and lack of operations, were the reason people were up in arms in 5.0. It's also why this game is a shadow of what it was in 4.0. (not that 4.x was spectacular, but at least we were still riding high off Rishi/Yavin fumes and the old operations were raised to max level).

He's arguing that 30 mins of time investment is worth 175 UC's. But 875 UC's for 5 weeks of 30 minute work? The actual time investment is in the waiting.

Its only a game problem if its not intentional, which all signs are point to it being. This appears to be more like a preference problem, to each ones own. And if that drives one person away, then it probably draws someone else in knowing that gear isnt just given away quickly either.

I'm not sure what we, as players, have to do to get the devs to notice that we don't like RNG gear boxes. That, and lack of operations, were the reason people were up in arms in 5.0. It's also why this game is a shadow of what it was in 4.0. (not that 4.x was spectacular, but at least we were still riding high off Rishi/Yavin fumes and the old operations were raised to max level).

Not everyone agrees that RNG is a bad thing. Some people are acting as though their complaints are universally agreed upon, when they really arent (maybe universally agreed upon in ones personal circle, but not population-wide). BW is unlikely to change something like that unless there is truly a problem with it, or they have the intention to change it for "something different."

Its only a game problem if its not intentional, which all signs are point to it being. This appears to be more like a preference problem, to each ones own. And if that drives one person away, then it probably draws someone else in knowing that gear isnt just given away quickly either.

Not everyone agrees that RNG is a bad thing. Some people are acting as though their complaints are universally agreed upon, when they really arent (maybe universally agreed upon in ones personal circle, but not population-wide). BW is unlikely to change something like that unless there is truly a problem with it, or they have the intention to change it for "something different."

I'm fairly certain that it is intentional, so yes it is a preference problem as you say. And the major preference problem seems to be against RNG gear boxes as evident in the 5.0 mass exodus. Unless you attribute subscription losses and server merges to something else?

it probably draws someone else in knowing that gear isnt just given away quickly either

This part was funny I would love to know about anyone that was drawn in to the game by RNG gear boxes. I want to meet these unicorns.

Personally, I prefer the 4.x gear acquisition method. That said, I think it was too easy and too quick. So I would go with the 4.0 gearing method, but a little more difficult and grindy.

I'm fairly certain that it is intentional, so yes it is a preference problem as you say. And the major preference problem seems to be against RNG gear boxes as evident in the 5.0 mass exodus. Unless you attribute subscription losses and server merges to something else?

There is no direct correlation between loot boxes being the definitive and sole reason people unsubscribed. Even before 5.0, people were jawing about their issues with the game, so its very likely there were many pre-existing reasons for people to leave at a moments notice if they didnt get what they wanted in any update, not necessarily 5.0. Personally, i think many players put too many expectations on BW before 5.0, amd were naturally let down because it wasnt possible to meet those expectations.

This part was funny I would love to know about anyone that was drawn in to the game by RNG gear boxes. I would love to meet these unicorns.

I will only speak for myself, but i have always been an advocate for BIS gearing to be made available to everyone, not just end-game ops participants. 5.0 brought that, and naturally was tweaked and adjusted like every other expansion/update. So, yes, I was very delighted to know I gained the ability to get BIS doing things that didnt necessarily require me to dedicate multiple-hour time slots to acquire. I play 10 minutes here, 30 minutes there, sometimes randomly my life allows me to play a full 3 hours in a row. The current system works perfectly for my RL lifestyle and commitment to it. I can dedicate any amiunt of time, make it meaningful, and still come away progressing towards BIS. There are many other casuals who have expressed themselves as in the same situation. But here is the bonus, now that i have accumulated BIS, i am more willing to sign up for HM and NIM raids when i can - because i dont feel like im holding the raid back being undergeared (like i wouldve been in 4.x and prior).

Im not saying RNG doesnt have its frustrating moments, but its not easy to come up with a loot system that is balanced for the game AND every individual playstyle AND time commitment AND "fun" either. So its the best loot system ive seen so far, until a better one presents itself.

5.10 is an extension to 5.previous and isnt meant to be a quick upgrade process. 248 gear is still the standard BIS for the masses.

There is no direct correlation between loot boxes being the definitive and sole reason people unsubscribed. Even before 5.0, people were jawing about their issues with the game, so its very likely there were many pre-existing reasons for people to leave at a moments notice if they didnt get what they wanted in any update, not necessarily 5.0. Personally, i think many players put too many expectations on BW before 5.0, amd were naturally let down because it wasnt possible to meet those expectations.

If the expectations of 5.0 were too high, it is because 5.0 KOTET was marketed as an expansion. https://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/11292016/game-update-5.0-knights-eternal-throne-early-access.

People were leaving in late 4.x, so you are right that it was not the sole reason for the mass exodus. Two of the guilds I played with died in late 4.x (one pvp and one pve/raiding) because 5.0 was basically 4.0 part 2. The very beginnings of the exodus began shortly after this announcement on 7/15/16: https://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20160715.

As for loot boxes of 5.0, these were the final straw. Not only were people upset by more of the same Chapters systems (no OW planets, no raids, no pvp maps) they also lost their EZ-mode 4.0 gearing. Players had to grind new gear to do....what? Some new chapters? Thus the mass exodus of early 2017, I attribute to GC loot boxes -- because people would have continued to do whatever content they were doing before (with boredom).

I will only speak for myself, but i have always been an advocate for BIS gearing to be made available to everyone, not just end-game ops participants. 5.0 brought that, and naturally was tweaked and adjusted like every other expansion/update. So, yes, I was very delighted to know I gained the ability to get BIS doing things that didnt necessarily require me to dedicate multiple-hour time slots to acquire. I play 10 minutes here, 30 minutes there, sometimes randomly my life allows me to play a full 3 hours in a row. The current system works perfectly for my RL lifestyle and commitment to it. I can dedicate any amiunt of time, make it meaningful, and still come away progressing towards BIS. There are many other casuals who have expressed themselves as in the same situation. But here is the bonus, now that i have accumulated BIS, i am more willing to sign up for HM and NIM raids when i can - because i dont feel like im holding the raid back being undergeared (like i wouldve been in 4.x and prior).

 

Im not saying RNG doesnt have its frustrating moments, but its not easy to come up with a loot system that is balanced for the game AND every individual playstyle AND time commitment AND "fun" either. So its the best loot system ive seen so far, until a better one presents itself.

 

5.10 is an extension to 5.previous and isnt meant to be a quick upgrade process. 248 gear is still the standard BIS for the masses.

I will respond to this second part later. Gotta run for now. But I do agree that 5.10 gearing is far better than early 5.0 gearing.

This game is in a better state than it was at 5.0 launch, but the playerbase is still fragile and suspicious, in my opinion.