Recently, at least on my server, there has been a flood of sellers of end game crafted items on the GTN. 246 enhancements, mods, barrels, hilts etc. I've tried to follow these characters as best that I could. I don't know for sure they are gold sellers but the circumstances are very odd. And yes, I craft these wares and it is frustrating to compete with someone that is almost online 24/7 because ...well...making credits to sale is their job.

A few oddities:

First, their wears, and they sell in bulk, all have the identity of the crafter worn off. Indicating either the crafter has been deleted (unlikely) or the items have been transferred from a "base" server to the target server to generate credits to sale.

Second, I've tracked these characters and a lot of the selling characters are level 1 characters hidden away on Nar Shadda (if they read this they will likely change).

I haven't made characters on other servers to see if the same culprits can be identified on other servers but I speculate that they are there.

As I've said, I do not know if these characters are legitimate players or gold sellers. I cannot post their names on the forums without rule violations.

If you speculate the this may be the case, I'm not sure reporting/ sending a ticket will help. I would hope those opposed to these guys would choose not to save the one credit and avoid buying their wares.

-Ashur

I'm with PiiTarr, I do not think these are gold sellers. More likely they are players with an abundance of exotic materials and just crafted a bunch of stuff to sell; I do it all the time.

Question: what are the prices they are posting at? Very low, Very high.

They actually compete through undercutting. However, I had one try to bottom the price recently.

Dunno,

-Ashur

Cannot report someone for posting on GTN! That itself is not violation of rules. Since we cannot determine how they obtained mats, this topic seems like shot in the dark.

Another possible explanation, that actually happened to me. I have a bunch of mats from OPs, Conquest, FPs... but only recently got schematics in order to craft 246 stuff. Similar might be happening.

Like i indicated in my initial post, i do not know for sure that these players are facilitating selling credits from a credit selling site. Their activity is very suspicious. Is it possible these players are true players? That is possible. I would be surprised if a legitamite player goes through the trouble of crafting dozens upon dozens of end game crafted wares, transfers to other servers just to sell them. Again i could be surprised.

These players, and on my server we have recently had about 3-4 pop up, all have the same or similar pattern. Level 1 characters tucked away on nar shadda, crafted items hiding the identity of their makers. One strange thing ive noticed also is that they have yet to compete with each other.

Also, you can report them. Whether or not bioware investigates or not is out of players hands. As is our knowledge of what kind of tracking bioware can do to figure these players out. And of course how well they have concealed their activities, which, it appears they have gone to great lengths to do.

Again, it is all suspicious.

-Ashur

Any chance these are just whales playing the market?

Some players religiously watch GTN prices on on all the servers, and if one high end item is selling for a lot less on one they'll buy up, transfer to the server where it is listed high, and sell there. Mostly they do that with Cartel Market items, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few had expanded into also buying and relisting high end crafted stuff.

Are there any level restrictions to character transfers? If not the level 1s might just be alts used to server transfer and buy/sell.

Just speculating.

On the other hand I've noticed some crafting oddities of late, too. There are players who occasionally dump mid range crafted armor sets on the server for rock bottom prices, and not just one or two items, but like 7 to 10 at a time. (and critical hits for crafted armor sets don't spawn duplicates, they spawn augmented)

I've been buying and relisting and making money off of them long term, but I do wonder if maybe I'm buying from the mat farming bots who can afford to list well below market prices for the mats. Always different names, too.

Now the Revan Reborn armour is available again it will get worse.

From what I understand that used to be a super rare armour set. Oh the gen chat is going to be fun.

I play on Begeren Colony and I have seen players selling items that have had their name completely removed. When you see an item that has had the crafter's name removed, that means that the item was bought on another server and then transferred to another server.

I have characters on every server so whenever I want to check what the going price on something I check Jedi Covenant, Harbinger, Shadowlands, and Ebon Hawk to see what the average prices are because Begeren Colony, overall, is more expensive due to less players selling on the GTN.

Recently I have upgraded a bunch of my alts to have 246 Ear, Implants, Mods, and Enhancements. An item going for 1-1.5M on other more populated servers was going for 5-6M on my server and there was no way I was going to pay my server's prices, so I moved one of my characters to another server, bought what I wanted, then moved them back. That was when I noticed the crafter name being erased from the items.

I didn't do it to resell the items, but if I had wanted to, I could have easily tripled my investment. That's basically what is going on but it doesn't mean they are selling credits and nothing they are doing is against the rules. If a person can buy 100M worth of items and resell them for 300M for only 180CC (90CC per transfer) then they are going to do it and there's really nothing that can be done about it.

KC

I would suggest to the OP that they worry less about the potential of gold sellers and to recognize that crafting in general is not all that profitable unless you almost exclusively devote to strictly that.

Keep in mind that DvL meant a lot of people rolled alts and thus have more potential crafters.

With the focus on instant 60/65s the market for lower level crafted items barely exists where once there was high demand.

End game crafting profitability is really limited, even more so in this GC system. You'll generally find there's not a lot of meat on bone between the craft mats value and a finished product.

Typically you'll either face competition for the high ticket items on a high pop server and on a low pop server the crafting mats are too expensive to make significant profit per item.

Side note - while most people aren't fond of gold sellers, if they didn't see potential opportunity in game that would likely imply far worse things about the overall state of the game.

Interesting comments. Are you suggesting that i give up crafting? An aspect of mmo's i have always enjoyed? You statements seem to try to discourage players from investing time in crafting due to the minimal profit margins. If crafting end game wares wasnt so profitable then why would potential gold farmers waste their time attempting to dominate the market?

Ive made a fair share of credits crafting these wares and selling them with legitinate competitors which i enjoy competing with. I work full time in real life, i cannot play 24/7 so i cannot attempt to "control" the market, nor would i want to. No fun without competition...It has afforded me the ability to avoid spending real dollars on gamble packs for difficult to get items which is another aspect of the game i enjoy (space barbie). Allowing gold farmers to control this aspect of the game force people like me to feel as though we are being corralled into either buying credits from these 3rd party site, risking rule violations or buying gamble packs for a dismal chance.of getting items we are interested in.

I wont do either.

I am a fan of star wars. I enjoy this game. However, i will not be pressured into spending more than my monthly subscriber cost by either Bioware or the gold farmers. In the end, like many for more reasons than my own, if the game is no longer enjoyable....well....

Ashur

Any chance these are just whales playing the market?

 

Some players religiously watch GTN prices on on all the servers, and if one high end item is selling for a lot less on one they'll buy up, transfer to the server where it is listed high, and sell there.

Which is exactly why I only craft for myself and good friends anymore. I hardly ever sell pieces - and most definitively valuable pieces - anymore.

I'm so sick of this already - but that's just how capitalism works.

I play on Begeren Colony and I have seen players selling items that have had their name completely removed. When you see an item that has had the crafter's name removed, that means that the item was bought on another server and then transferred to another server.

The name can get removed in another situation, too : A very good friend of mine did craft a piece for me - and a while after that she transferred that character to another server (she has her multitude of characters & legacies spread over several servers, but a thing she almost never does is crafting).

Well, the name on the item got removed. I do still know it is from her because she hardly ever produces things, as far as I know, and only her friends, and this particular piece was something I had asked her for a few years ago, because i couldn't produce it.

I didn't do it to resell the items, but if I had wanted to, I could have easily tripled my investment. That's basically what is going on but it doesn't mean they are selling credits and nothing they are doing is against the rules. If a person can buy 100M worth of items and resell them for 300M for only 180CC (90CC per transfer) then they are going to do it and there's really nothing that can be done about it.

And this is exactly hoe capitalism works. Which is why I'm watching the economy a bit as an aquarium to see how all this works. It is very interesting, how the rules reapply themselves all again - and that apparingly no matter which MMO, which says to me that people are all the same.

When you see an item that has had the crafter's name removed, that means that the item was bought on another server and then transferred to another server.

Not necessarily true. I crafted lightsabers for my sith warrior on a Republic character i deleted then, the lightsabers crafted by him had the mention about the crafters name being completely worn off. So i guess it is possible for an item to not display the name of the crafter if the character was deleted.

It sounds like that the name of the crafter doesn't show if the creator of said item isn't on the same server as the item. It must be a coding thing of SWTOR. *shrug*

KC

200,000,000 credits for a set of Revan reborn greaves anyone?

Anyone at all?

If anyone wants it it's on the Progenitor GTN server right now.

Some ******* people......

I wasn't saying to quit crafting - simply to look at it from a different perspective.

If you look at crafting primarily as a means of income you're bound to be frustrated. However, as a "supplemental" income it's a lot less frustrating and that's basically just changing a state of mind.

I've crafted since my first day subbed (when I was subbed) and never completely stopped. In 4.0 I made quite the effort to be able to craft 220 implants and relics because they were far more rare and I preferred to pick the name it was crafted by. 224 was the absolute best available and was not craftable but wasn't a massive step up from the 220 standard.

Now, I'm not familiar with all the new gear tiers, but just as the BIS (Best in Slot) gear could not be crafted, I would assume that's essentially the case now. Now that the best gear available no longer requires operation drops, I think it would be safe to assume the end game market takes a hit.

There's nothing wrong in enjoying crafting. But, you also have to keep realistic expectations. If people are selling en-masse crafted items for less than the general value of the crafting mats - trying to compete with them only ruins your bottom line. Sometimes you have to make an extra effort to find a niche market with little competition and a decent bit of demand.

Like others have said, I don't believe it's "gold sellers" that have gotten into the crafting scene; just "whales". The most likely scenario is that people are transferring their crafting toons between servers to check prices etc while leaving their bank / GTN toon on the home server whichever that maybe. That is just the state of things given how cheap server transfers are; nothing that can be done about that.

*edit: As a side note, crafting is definitely still a highly profitable venture but does require a significant upfront cost, a fact that most people overlook, which will naturally deter new people from entering the market. It's simple economics.

Like others have said, I don't believe it's "gold sellers" that have gotten into the crafting scene; just "whales". The most likely scenario is that people are transferring their crafting toons between servers to check prices etc while leaving their bank / GTN toon on the home server whichever that maybe. That is just the state of things given how cheap server transfers are; nothing that can be done about that.

 

*edit: As a side note, crafting is definitely still a highly profitable venture but does require a significant upfront cost, a fact that most people overlook, which will naturally deter new people from entering the market. It's simple economics.

I would say that the most overlooked cost (or undervalued) is that of time. When people sell a crafted item for less than the crafting mat value where they think their mats are "free" I see them undervaluing their time spent to get them. I think people are usually aware of the upfront costs - it's a lot more practical to simply buy from crafters versus building up the craft skills and getting the necessary schematics if you only need a handful of items. If you've got alts galore, crafting can save time and offer convenience.

I've been crafting for a long time. I started with having 6 characters, one of each craft type. Over time I added 16 more characters, each having 3 crew skills. As of now, I have 22 Level 70 characters all with Rank 50 companions and their respective crafting and crew skills at 600. Yes, it took a long time to get all of my characters' companions to Rank 50 but it is worth the time and credits invested. I also keep stacks of components and materials in my Legacy Bank with each Quality type having its own page. Using three of the six pages for just crafting materials takes up a lot of space but I keep it organized.

Below is a list to show how I broke down the gathering crew skills between all 22 characters.

Archaeology: 6

Bioanalysis: 8

Diplomacy: 4

Investigation: 4

Scavenging: 8

Slicing: 16

Treasure Hunting: 8

Underworld: 6

The Slicing crew skill is dominant due to the fact that a lot of items use Slicing materials now, both Blue and Purple.

It's a lot of work, time, and credits to get a crafting setup like I have but I think it's worth it. I finally finished collecting all of the Galactic Command Tier I schematics, so now it's time to work on Tier II. Yay for GC grinding right? *lol*

KC

I wasn't saying to quit crafting - simply to look at it from a different perspective.

 

If you look at crafting primarily as a means of income you're bound to be frustrated. However, as a "supplemental" income it's a lot less frustrating and that's basically just changing a state of mind.

 

I am of two minds on this: on the one hand, crafting IS my primary source of income; for me all other income streams are a bonus and never come close to my crafting income. That said, I have been working crafting for 5 years in this game. On the other hand, like I just said, I have been working crafting for five years, so I know all the tricks. Someone just starting out and wanting crafting to be their primary revenue stream is going to feel underwhelmed.

 

...snip....

 

Now, I'm not familiar with all the new gear tiers, but just as the BIS (Best in Slot) gear could not be crafted, I would assume that's essentially the case now. Now that the best gear available no longer requires operation drops, I think it would be safe to assume the end game market takes a hit.

 

Yes, as always the best gear available is not craftable. But they have added a wrinkle in that each tier has craftable and non-craftable and the non-craftable is slightly better stats:

 

Tier 1: 230 all craftable

Tier 2: 234 craftable 236 not craftable

Tier 3: 240 craftable 242 not craftable

Tier 4: 246 craftable 248 not craftable.

 

Add to that, that the left side pieces (ear, implant, relic) are not optimized (higher endurance, lower power)

 

And while it is true that one can get rating 248 (BiS) gear without ever setting foot in large group content (operations or PvP), the rate at which 248 stuff drops from command crates is quite low; on average it takes hundreds of tier 4 command crates to get a full set of 248 for one character.

 

There's nothing wrong in enjoying crafting. But, you also have to keep realistic expectations. If people are selling en-masse crafted items for less than the general value of the crafting mats - trying to compete with them only ruins your bottom line. Sometimes you have to make an extra effort to find a niche market with little competition and a decent bit of demand.

 

Could not agree more. Which is why for the most part, I stay away from crafting end game stuff for profit. Most of what I craft for profit is 228 (bottom rung/entry level end game) or lower. I have a lot of end game schematics but I usually only craft them for myself or friends/guildies.

 

I would say that the most overlooked cost (or undervalued) is that of time. When people sell a crafted item for less than the crafting mat value where they think their mats are "free" I see them undervaluing their time spent to get them. I think people are usually aware of the upfront costs - it's a lot more practical to simply buy from crafters versus building up the craft skills and getting the necessary schematics if you only need a handful of items. If you've got alts galore, crafting can save time and offer convenience.

ABSOLUTELY!!! Whenever I read the phrase "but mats are free" I cringe.

In MMOs currency and time are interchangeable resources: spend credits save time, spend time save credits; your time has value. Don't sell yourself short.

What he said!

Yeah - I almost take it for granted that I've got plenty of alts that were developed over at least a year and that I invested quite a bit into them all to get there. If I didn't enjoy crafting I would probably be richer given how much in time and credits I invested into the setup. But in my case that's because I wasn't willing to devote even more time to look for niches in the economy.

Like others have said, I don't believe it's "gold sellers" that have gotten into the crafting scene; just "whales".

Long ago, I witnessed one "glitch".

Someone at Harbinger who was sending out gold seller spam gave in a single chat line a tip to someone else for cfrafting high valuable material. It sounded as if he knew a lot about crafting high-end materials.

That was a year ago and I don't remember anymore whether I took a screenshot of it or not.

But it led me into believing that crafting high-valuable materials can be an income for gold sellers.

Long ago, I witnessed one "glitch".

Someone at Harbinger who was sending out gold seller spam gave in a single chat line a tip to someone else for cfrafting high valuable material. It sounded as if he knew a lot about crafting high-end materials.

 

That was a year ago and I don't remember anymore whether I took a screenshot of it or not.

But it led me into believing that crafting high-valuable materials can be an income for gold sellers.

To add to that one, I once viewed the achievements of one of the level 65 email spam bots who happened to be at the mailbox next to my character, and while it had 0% in most categories...it had an achievement for maxing out one of the crafting skills.

Long ago, I witnessed one "glitch".

Someone at Harbinger who was sending out gold seller spam gave in a single chat line a tip to someone else for cfrafting high valuable material. It sounded as if he knew a lot about crafting high-end materials.

 

That was a year ago and I don't remember anymore whether I took a screenshot of it or not.

But it led me into believing that crafting high-valuable materials can be an income for gold sellers.

Anything can become income for gold sellers. Buying low on the GTN for CM items and reselling later. It's manual work but point is anything that makes people credits can make them cash.

Also they don't even necessarily need be a direct gold seller but a seller to the spammers themselves.

The thing people need to remember is of course gold sellers craft/gather to make cash, it should come as no surprise. They can easily automate the process and the manual steps are selling the results and ensuring mats are on the toons that craft.

The thing is this doesn't mean every person selling low is a gold seller, if there were some simple method of getting the mats (which you can't craft without) then you would see the mat prices tumble super low (as we have in the past with dupe exploits) and so they are just selling at a loss banking on making more credits from the crits than selling the mats themselves.

Heck the math might work out that buying the mats for more than they sell the crafted goods for still means more credits long term from crits. I don't know the math as I haven't crafted in over a year for profit so someone else could work out how profitable this might be.

Heck the math might work out that buying the mats for more than they sell the crafted goods for still means more credits long term from crits. I don't know the math as I haven't crafted in over a year for profit so someone else could work out how profitable this might be.

I think there are too many who do not realize how cheaply one can in fact craft anything. Excluding anything with exotic materials, the most expensive stuff to craft is:

• ear pieces
  
• implants
  
• relics
  
• Augmentation slot kits
  

BUT they still only cost 35k to craft. So if someone sells at 37500, even after the GTN cut there is still 0.7% profit, and left side pieces average 65k while slot kits average 80k. So if someone happens to sell at 50k or 60k one might think they are taking a loss, when in fact they are not.

Even including Exotic materials, again I think too many players would be surprised how depressed the value is. Last time I checked on the Harbinger Strategic Resource Matrix (SRM; personal conquest goal material) was posted at 65k each...and every ear piece, implant and relic end game schematic requires SRM (if there is one I have yet to find it and even if it exists it is more likely a glitch than reality) not Void Matter Catalyst (VMC, acquired through Ops and randomly by PvP mission completion: daily and weekly). And even VMC are relatively low value at 450k.

Conquest and Galactic Command have done their job: encourage participation in a variety of activities. The unintended consequence though is that there are more exotic materials in the supply line.

• More players completing the GF Op of the Day, means an average of 5 VMC for each op run.
  
• More players completing the PvP daily and weekly on multiple characters means more chances to get VMC
  
• More players running FPs for conquest and the weekly means more chances at Refined isotope Stabilizer (RIS)
  

The point is that I could make 50 pieces of anything I wanted to tomorrow and profit.