I want to pick up on this.

 

I've done the entire raid in both 8 and 16. Never hit an enrage in either setting. I mean, we're talking about enrages here as if people in 8 are hitting enrages. They're not. Good raid groups just don't hit enrages.

 

I have a lot of reservations about the claims being made. How do we know the exact enrage timers when no one is hitting them? How do we know the calculations are correct? All I see are the final numbers with no work being shown.

 

I don't get particularly hung up on the enrages either. Why? If you're a good raid team you are not going to hit enrage in this content regardless if you're 8 or 16. When it comes to hard mode level it is no secret that the enrage timers are easier on 16. This has been the case since the game launched. What makes 16 inherently harder is the increased tank and raid damage, the increased coordination from double the players, and filling out the raid with twice as many competent players.

 

None of which has been refuted in these discussions.

I want to pick on this

MoX went into 16 when we had 16 55's, the group was far from optimal and I was one of the few dps who had 1 + piece of 69 gear and we never saw an enrage nor felt that we were close at any time and point. One of the European guilds cleared stryak with 15 raiders and said it was easy. You're not doing 8 man with 7 people plain and simple. We hit enrage at 5% and counted the time and was <9 mins > 8 so we have that time. In 16 our video is 11:30 long and we hit no enrage which makes it > 11:30. So I guess all the groups that have kill videos of styrak on 8 are bad considering they all hit enrage.

Oh and on nearly every fight 8/16 I'm the #1 or #2 sorc on torparse so I guess I'll get that #0 spot and attempt to get in a good group despite being 50-80k behind our melee dps.

EDIT: not 1 or 2 anymore in 16 anymore guess people uploaded logs but you get the point

I want to pick on this

 

MoX went into 16 when we had 16 55's, the group was far from optimal and I was one of the few dps who had 1 + piece of 69 gear and we never saw an enrage nor felt that we were close at any time and point. One of the European guilds cleared stryak with 15 raiders and said it was easy. You're not doing 8 man with 7 people plain and simple. We hit enrage at 5% and counted the time and was <9 mins > 8 so we have that time. In 16 our video is 11:30 long and we hit no enrage which makes it > 11:30. So I guess all the groups that have kill videos of styrak on 8 are bad considering they all hit enrage.

I find it a little bemusing that some time ago I was arguing that a good portion of the difficulty in 16-man is simply coordination and fielding 16 quality raiders; Mavery was, iirc, dismissing this with comments about 16-man SC&FB being much harder mathematically in terms of DPS and healing required.

Now we have a boss with significantly stricter requirements in terms of DPS output compared to 8-man and his comments basically boil down to "well enrage isn't even an issue anyway and 16-man is harder because of coordination and fielding good raiders". Huh. For the record, Mavery, I'm not trying to have a dig at you... it just looks like there's some selective reasoning going on.

For what it's worth, my guild enraged on Styrak the first time we tried him in mostly 63s. Judging from other kill videos I figured the enrage timer to be about 8m from when the dragon spawns. We got some more gear (mostly augments) and slapped some people around the ears and killed him in 7m58s from when I started the timer. DPS was as follows:

2.2k

2.2k

2.2k

2.0k

And 1.6k / 0.6k combined from the tanks and healers respectively. So basically, as far as I can tell you need just shy of 11k combined to beat enrage, which is not insignificant (nor insurmountable, though) early in the new gearing tiers. It's certainly much more demanding than 16man (for once) though, and I think that means something in a fight that is not very mechanically demanding. Certainly there's less to coordinate than NiM FB/SC or NiM Keph.

I want to pick up on this.

 

I've done the entire raid in both 8 and 16. Never hit an enrage in either setting. I mean, we're talking about enrages here as if people in 8 are hitting enrages. They're not. Good raid groups just don't hit enrages.

 

I have a lot of reservations about the claims being made. How do we know the exact enrage timers when no one is hitting them? How do we know the calculations are correct? All I see are the final numbers with no work being shown.

 

I don't get particularly hung up on the enrages either. Why? If you're a good raid team you are not going to hit enrage in this content regardless if you're 8 or 16. When it comes to hard mode level it is no secret that the enrage timers are easier on 16. This has been the case since the game launched. What makes 16 inherently harder is the increased tank and raid damage, the increased coordination from double the players, and filling out the raid with twice as many competent players.

 

None of which has been refuted in these discussions.

Lol.

Completely biased selective reasoning. Basically what he is saying is "Math doesn't matter anymore because DPS is irrelevant" for this content.

And the reason you never saw the enrage on Styrak in 8M HM, is because you didn't complete 8M HM within the first week.

Regards,

KK

Maybe, i started here something that i did't want to start. To be honest Styrak is the only difference, because all of the other encounters are easy in both modes. Styrak is the only encounter requiring some skill in terms of dps. you don't have to be aware what's going on, because it's always the same order of his abilities, you just have to do enough dps and that is harder on 8man than on 16man. we don't need to calculate that, just go in and find out, you will see the difference.

All i wanted to say is that an encounter which can be killed at the first pull with less than 16man is too easy! I don't want to disrespect the 16man guilds, don't get me wrong here please. The real difficult of an mmo is clearing before others do and that is not effected by a difference between two modes, if there are different rankings which is the case.

However i wanted to point that out because i would like to see more difficult encounters *looking at the devs* which are something more like a simple dps requirement or sometimes not even that.

EDIT: I just want to add that i like the boss encounters and how they are designed, i just like it a bit more difficult than it is now. Maybe some more random elements which require the player's awareness.

Still no update on progress spreadsheet?

Arendil, SpaceWolves Guildmaster

Still no update on progress spreadsheet?

 

Arendil, SpaceWolves Guildmaster

Working on it now. Mae has been busy with school.

Working on it now. Mae has been busy with school.

Ok, ty mate!

Arendil, SpaceWolves Guildmaster

OK it's been updated. If we missed anything let us know as we were a few pages behind.

One other thing. If you are not providing UTC times in your screenshots you are not going to have a ranked, verified kill. We are not going to try and convert your kill time from the minimap clock in your screenshot.

The majority of the guilds ranked on the spreadsheet have made the effort to provide UTC timestamps on their screenshots. I don't see why everyone else can't.

We want this to be fair. We are going to recognize your kill on the spreadsheet but it won't be ranked and verified unless there is a UTC timestamp on your screenshots. The link to the UTC clock is on the first page.

OK it's been updated. If we missed anything let us know as we were a few pages behind.

 

One other thing. If you are not providing UTC times in your screenshots you are not going to have a ranked, verified kill. We are not going to try and convert your kill time from the minimap clock in your screenshot.

 

The majority of the guilds ranked on the spreadsheet have made the effort to provide UTC timestamps on their screenshots. I don't see why everyone else can't.

 

We want this to be fair. We are going to recognize your kill on the spreadsheet but it won't be ranked and verified unless there is a UTC timestamp on your screenshots. The link to the UTC clock is on the first page.

You're right, we've missed the UTC stamp and I apologize for it. Next time we'll be more accurate. Anyway, since there is an achievement screenshot with time and date, knowing we're GMT +2 timezone, it should be quite easy to determine if another guild had a kill before us. Thank you anyway fot he job you're doing.

Arendil, SpaceWolves Guildmaster

You're right, we've missed the UTC stamp and I apologize for it. Next time we'll be more accurate. Anyway, since there is an achievement screenshot with time and date, knowing we're GMT +2 timezone, it should be quite easy to determine if another guild had a kill before us. Thank you anyway fot he job you're doing.

 

Arendil, SpaceWolves Guildmaster

It was more a general statement for everyone.

It's important that we stress that is a test run for the tracking. We only made this known a day before the early access begun, whereas Carnage made their 16 man tracking known weeks in advance. We were honestly waiting the guild that it for EC NiM to do it this time.

So I wouldn't worry too much about not getting the UTC times this go around. Everyone that posted screenshots timed stamped or not are recognized on the spreadsheet as having completed the 8 man version of S&V.

But for TFB NiM I think everyone will have an understanding of what they need to provide in order be ranked.

Also please provide any feedback that will make the tracking better going forward.

It was more a general statement for everyone.

 

It's important that we stress that is a test run for the tracking. We only made this known a day before the early access begun, whereas Carnage made their 16 man tracking known weeks in advance. We were honestly waiting the guild that it for EC NiM to do it this time.

 

So I wouldn't worry too much about not getting the UTC times this go around. Everyone that posted screenshots timed stamped or not are recognized on the spreadsheet as having completed the 8 man version of S&V.

 

But for TFB NiM I think everyone will have an understanding of what they need to provide in order be ranked.

 

Also please provide any feedback that will make the tracking better going forward.

Apologies it was more of a afterthought for my group and we decided to post it up. Anyhow sorry and ty for the work you did do.

Night's Radiance killed:

8 Man HM Dash'Roode (4/20/13) at 01:50 am UTC

8 Man HM Titan 6 (4/22/13) at 01:43 am UTC

8 Man HM Thrasher (4/22/13) at 03:27 am UTC

8 Man HM Operations Chief (4/22/13) at 04:30 am UTC

8 Man HM Olok the Shadow (4/22/13) at 05:07 am UTC

8 Man HM Cartel Warlords (4/22/13) at 05:29 am UTC

8-Man HM Dread Master Styrak (4/24/13) at 02:17 pm UTC

Anyone get a pet or a mount from this raid? HM raids usually have one or the other. We didnt get any so thought i would check here =D

^^

Puppy

Anyone get a pet or a mount from this raid? HM raids usually have one or the other. We didnt get any so thought i would check here =D

Haven't seen any mounts but what Buckets, said, there is a pet

Republic Gentlemen of the Jedi Covenant Server just cleared SV HM.

April 26th 2013 11:12pm EST

http://republicgentlemen.guildportal.com/GuildFiles/443431/Screenshot_2013-04-26_23_12_08_360450.jpg

House Stark of Jedi Covenant has cleared S&V HM 8 Man.

April 27th at 02:14:59.845 AM (EST) 06:14:59.845 AM (UTC)

See guild website for all boss kills. House Stark

Final Boss Screenshot

House Stark of Jedi Covenant has cleared S&V HM 8 Man.

 

April 27th at 02:14:59.845 AM (EST) 06:14:59.845 AM (UTC)

 

See guild website for all boss kills. House Stark

 

Final Boss Screenshot

Grats and dude I love the guild name

Ashen Orders kills were improperly ordered on the chart.

1st boss 4/17/13 at 4:28 am UTC http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s514/nateon666/Screenshot_2013-04-19_12_57_42_389146_zps470210ad.jpg

2nd 4/22/13 4:27 am UTC http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s514/nateon666/Screenshot_2013-04-21_23_27_31_646244_zps12236119.jpg

3rd 4/23/13 2:45 am UTC http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s514/nateon666/Screenshot_2013-04-22_21_35_51_327320_zps2a8525e6.jpg

4th 4/23/13 3:42 am UTC http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s514/nateon666/Screenshot_2013-04-22_22_42_47_094008_zps26ec9aa0.jpg

5th 4/24/13 4 am UTC http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s514/nateon666/Screenshot_2013-04-23_23_00_22_297068_zps7145605c.jpg

6th 4/24/13 4:16am UTC http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s514/nateon666/Screenshot_2013-04-23_23_16_32_828579_zps27e1a8be.jpg

7th 4/26/13 5:38 am UTC http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s514/nateon666/Screenshot_2013-04-26_00_38_37_649597_zps374343a0.jpg

There now we can be listed for everything properly =D

So what happened to raid ranks i miss that site T_T lol

With Styrak One Shot this Morning <Nightmare Council> have Downed HM SaV

Dread Master Styrak:

http://i.imgur.com/2YG4q5Y.jpg

----------------------------------------------------------

All HM SaV Screenshots:

Dash'roode

http://i.imgur.com/rDuqGQ4.jpg

Titan 6

http://i.imgur.com/DfLQ3uG.jpg

Thrasher:

http://i.imgur.com/IR5HEnU.jpg

Operations Chief:

http://i.imgur.com/WhPv4BT.jpg

Olok the Shadow:

http://i.imgur.com/Q5qOcpa.jpg

Cartel Warlords:

http://i.imgur.com/mx2EGQL.jpg

Dread Master Styrak:

http://i.imgur.com/2YG4q5Y.jpg

Guild: The Underworld Alliance

Server: The Ebon Hawk

Time: Forgot to have a window with the date and time, up so if its alright could you just put the time as the time of this post? (Actual time of kill was 2:22 am EDT on 4/27/13)

Picture

Spreadsheet is updated. Let me know if I overlooked anything.

Also we only created a point system for 20 guilds. We are over that mark so the rankings will no longer be determined on points. We will continue to track everyone's progression on the spreadsheet and rank based simply on UTC time and date of the Dread Master Styrak kill.

We will increase the amount of guilds that the spreadsheet supports for the next progression race.

Spreadsheet is updated. Let me know if I overlooked anything.

 

Also we only created a point system for 20 guilds. We are over that mark so the rankings will no longer be determined on points. We will continue to track everyone's progression on the spreadsheet and rank based simply on UTC time and date of the Dread Master Styrak kill.

 

We will increase the amount of guilds that the spreadsheet supports for the next progression race.

there are many guilds not even bothering to update so the list is kind of pointless. I know of at least 8 guilds on my server that don't bother to post on progression mine being one of them.

there are many guilds not even bothering to update so the list is kind of pointless. I know of at least 8 guilds on my server that don't bother to post on progression mine being one of them.

And that's fine, this is a thread for those that would like to participate. And it's more of a practice and awareness run for content to come.