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[SPOILERS] A Theory On Rey And The Force

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
[SPOILERS] A Theory On Rey And The Force

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
01.06.2018 , 12:22 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by NuSeC View Post
That was it. That was my only point I was trying to make.
And again, I will drop the issue as long as nobody else brings it up.
I 100% respect your right to like the story of this movie as well.
I do not agree with your reasons and you do not agree with mine and that is 100% OK. There is no need to try to make up petty personal accusations if we can all agree to look at it in this light that neither view is superior and are personal to the opinion of the individual.
Yes, true, I agree, but this thread is not about me liking The Last Jedi. This thread is about a theory I had that might be an explanation of why Rey is as strong in the Force as she is. The theory isn't about my opinion on the Last Jedi, it's about a lore subject with a possible theory. I don't want to discuss whether we like or don't like the Last Jedi because that is not what the thread is about, this thread talks about how the Force works and influences others from an in-universe perspective :P
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NuSeC's Avatar


NuSeC
01.06.2018 , 03:27 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
Yes, true, I agree, but this thread is not about me liking The Last Jedi. This thread is about a theory I had that might be an explanation of why Rey is as strong in the Force as she is. The theory isn't about my opinion on the Last Jedi, it's about a lore subject with a possible theory. I don't want to discuss whether we like or don't like the Last Jedi because that is not what the thread is about, this thread talks about how the Force works and influences others from an in-universe perspective :P
Oh I get that, but you are basing a lot of it off of the new canon lore from the new movies right? I mean it is to understand Rey right? So it is almost impossible to separate the two.

On either front, I am glad we agree sir
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NuSeC's Avatar


NuSeC
01.06.2018 , 04:55 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
You still fail to see the real reasons here...
I don't fail to see the reasoning, I just dismiss it because it is crap for a story. You said so yourself.

Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
The problems come from how their stories are told.
Luke had been enlightened by Kenobi about the force and gave him a lesson. The only thing Luke did in ANH is listen to Kenobi's ghost that told him to "use the force." This was only after he had showed Luke that he could even use it. He did not move any objects, he didn't use a lightsaber in combat or use mind trick. Basically all he did was listen to Kenobi's force ghost and follow instructions from a Jedi master. He didn't know what he was doing.

Then 3 years pass where he is able to build on what he had learned and train on his own (possibly even with Kenobi's ghost). It was not until this gap in time until we see him use the force to bring the lightsaber to him. . That is why in TESB, he is able to tell Yoda that he has "learned so much already". And even then got bested by Vader and dismembered.

On top of all that, he was a Skywalker. Not a normal force sensitive, he is from a bloodline that is known in canon for being strong force sensitive/force users and why. I mean my god, the entire saga is about the freaking Skywalkers.

Luke had to find out that his dad was killed by Vader and that he was once a Jedi which we later find that Vader is his father. A plot twist that explains his powers and why.

Rey on the other hand... and all without any reason as to why except nonsense...
Spoiler


VERY IMPORTANT PART HERE:
Rey actually uses the force, over powering Kylo, for the Skywalker lightsaber. That is right, she over powered him for the saber using the force. This person who had NEVER used it, overpowered someone trained in it from birth in the Skywalker bloodline.


Done. That is the story. That is how the force works.

I mean... LOL. Even Snoke, knowing the wounds Kylo had, still called him on it. haha! Just whatever, I just think the story/plot is corny and stupid now. You can never grow stronger and it never really matters who is in your bloodline because the force will give PVP bolster to Rey.

That is why people call her Mary Sue.
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jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.06.2018 , 05:20 PM | #34
Quote:
I mean it is to understand Rey right? So it is almost impossible to separate the two.
no ab****ely not, even if you completely ignore the New Trilogy going by what has happened in PT, OT, Rebels and The Clone Wars his theory matches up perfectly. The New Trilogy only supports it.

Like i said before in The Clone Wars we have Wee Dunn and Roo-Roo Page actual new born babies who can't even speak but are able to use the force just like Anakin Skywalker.

Anankins birth is also supported by this as the plan was to use the force to create evil but instead it created Anakin who ended up destroying the Sith.


Quote:
"VERY IMPORTANT PART HERE:
Rey actually uses the force, over powering Kylo, for the Skywalker lightsaber."

Yes which

1. fits into the OP's theory
2. Kylo is DYING he is weak and having trouble standing how is he supposed to concentrate when he also just killed his father? Did you not watch empire? What did Yoda tell Luke to do when stacking rocks? Concentrate clear your mind? Kind of hard to do when bleeding out, killed your father and on a planet that is about to explode.

Quote:
overpowered someone trained in it from birth
Length of training doesn't make you more powerful. if that were true Yoda should have been able to easily beat Palpatine as Yoda had been training for 900 years.

Quote:
in the Skywalker bloodline.
again bloodline doesn't mater at all. if it did Jedi would have gone extinct due to the fact that Jedi don't really have kids.

Quote:
You can never grow stronger and it never really matters who is in your bloodline
seriously what is up with your obsession with bloodlines?

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NuSeC's Avatar


NuSeC
01.06.2018 , 06:21 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
2. Kylo is DYING he is weak and having trouble standing how is he supposed to concentrate when he also just killed his father? Did you not watch empire? What did Yoda tell Luke to do when stacking rocks? Concentrate clear your mind? Kind of hard to do when bleeding out, killed your father and on a planet that is about to explode.
Did you not watch Empire? Luke got his hand cut off, found out Vader was his dad (knowing he had his Aunt and uncle killed) and still reached out to Leia at the end. Kylo was training his whole life and was beated by someone born into the force 2 days ago. But yeah, continue on.

You dont think he knew how to clear his mind and use the force? He has has been training under Luke for over a decade. Rey has about 3 days and has never showed she could even do it before then. Give me a break

Then we have to also question Rey and her mental state. She just saw a personal hero and father figure die by his own son, searching for her parents, the ground is breaking aprt under her feet on a strange planet and she had never even left her home world. She is facing someone she knows has trained in the force for years. But nah, she can concentrate just fine. Again, you pointed out that Yoda had to tell Luke how to concentrate, she had nobody.

But whatever floats your boat.

Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
again bloodline doesn't mater at all. if it did Jedi would have gone extinct due to the fact that Jedi don't really have kids.

seriously what is up with your obsession with bloodlines?
Oh I don't know, maybe the fact it is lore? Ya know midiclorians, Yoda telling Look the force runs strong in his family and to pass on what he has learned. That was kind of the deal yo, Vader was fathered by the force and then had his son, passing on the bloodline. But yeah, whatever lol then Kylo too. Maybe you should ask why the movies made up such a big deal with the bloodlines? I mean lets just dismiss, this whole saga is about a bloodline. HAHA

I dont get why you have an obsession with dismissing it.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
01.06.2018 , 06:38 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by NuSeC View Post
Oh I get that, but you are basing a lot of it off of the new canon lore from the new movies right? I mean it is to understand Rey right? So it is almost impossible to separate the two.

On either front, I am glad we agree sir
I have begged and asked how many times for you to read the OP so that you might understand and yet still you stubbornly refuse. I base my theory off of both Legends and new Canon, the primary source being Kreia from Knights of the Old Republic II. That is Legends material. The other parts are from for example the Last Jedi visual dictionary, Canon material. I'd rather say I primarily draw from EU continuity to explain Rey. So no, I am not drawing from the new movies, I am drawing my theory from material that came prior to the new movies and the new movies support my theories.

But I see what is happening here, you'll dismiss anything remotely positive about Rey because you hate the plot and story of the Last Jedi. While it is your right, I see that you'll simply not accept or consider a positive opinion about it. Even if Mark Hamill himself came with this theory you'd dismiss it I am afraid.
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jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.06.2018 , 07:27 PM | #37
Quote:
Did you not watch Empire? Luke got his hand cut off, found out Vader was his dad (knowing he had his Aunt and uncle killed) and still reached out to Leia at the end.
yeah.... he was in a dire situtation and was able to concentrate enough to use a cry for help while his sister was searching for him ie using the force unkonwingly

Which again.. goes into the OP's theory of the force doing its thing so to speak.

Quote:
You dont think he knew how to clear his mind and use the force?
this might be the biggest facepalm yet but it makes a lot of sense.

It's clear you didn't understand Kylo's character. No he can't clear his mind that's the whole point. Through out the entire movie its show his power comes from his uncontrolled rage.

and again going back to the OP's post the force is helping Rey

Quote:
She just saw a personal hero and father figure die by his own son,
yeah... and her mind is now clear focused on one single thing. Stopping the guy 20 feet from her and avenging Han. She has the best motivation, she has a clear path.

Thanks for proving my point.

Quote:
she can concentrate just fine. Again, you pointed out that Yoda had to tell Luke how to concentrate, she had nobody.
Maza taught her, tells her the same thing Yoda and Ben say to Luke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mrw6l9YiB0
Don't let facts get in the way of your Bias.

Quote:
Ya know midiclorians
That actually hurts your arguement. The point of Middoclhorines was to have a way to science away the force. It's basically giving Jedi's power levels. Nothing about it though has anything to do with bloodlines.



Quote:
Yoda telling Look the force runs strong in his family and to pass on what he has learned
This is actually your strongest argument you have made this entire thread about anything

But again... we have already seen that bloodline doesn't automatically make you strong in the force.

As i'll point out again in SWTOR Therian Shaan son of Satieal who was Daughter of Revan the strongest force user ever, had 0 force powers.

and again if it relied on bloodlines there would be no Jedi as they would all die out since they don't reproduce.

If it was really through bloodines then The Emperor would have just used Space Tinder to create his own apprentice

but seriously the entire point of the last 5 years of Star Wars is that bloodlines isn't important.

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NuSeC's Avatar


NuSeC
01.06.2018 , 09:06 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
yeah.... he was in a dire situtation and was able to concentrate enough to use a cry for help while his sister was searching for him ie using the force unkonwingly

Which again.. goes into the OP's theory of the force doing its thing so to speak.
He was also able to do it after 3 years.

Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
this might be the biggest facepalm yet but it makes a lot of sense.

It's clear you didn't understand Kylo's character. No he can't clear his mind that's the whole point. Through out the entire movie its show his power comes from his uncontrolled rage.

and again going back to the OP's post the force is helping Rey
Yes, helping Rey. Why didn’t it help Luke beat Vader the first go around?

Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post

yeah... and her mind is now clear focused on one single thing. Stopping the guy 20 feet from her and avenging Han. She has the best motivation, she has a clear path.
LOL so it is about motivation and I mean ugh. It seems some are willing to take anything they can get I guess. The argument is that she was able to over power him with the force. Whatever. If it is cool with you. Then it is cool with you.


Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
Maza taught her, tells her the same thing Yoda and Ben say to Luke
Um no, she just says close your eyes and feel the force. Luke was actually instructed and demonstrated. But even then, it took him years to do it. Rey was literally a few moments later.

Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
Don't let facts get in the way of your Bias.
Bias of bad story telling?


Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
That actually hurts your arguement. The point of Middoclhorines was to have a way to science away the force. It's basically giving Jedi's power levels. Nothing about it though has anything to do with bloodlines.
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
This is actually your strongest argument you have made this entire thread about anything
Actually, I believe my whole argument is strong, otherwise I would not be talking about it.
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
But again... we have already seen that bloodline doesn't automatically make you strong in the force.
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
As i'll point out again in SWTOR Therian Shaan son of Satieal who was Daughter of Revan the strongest force user ever, had 0 force powers.
You go on about my examples and facepalm and then you inject this game as some type of metric. Man, you know this game is not canon.
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
and again if it relied on bloodlines there would be no Jedi as they would all die out since they don't reproduce
If it was really through bloodines then The Emperor would have just used Space Tinder to create his own apprentice
You can be born with midiclorians obviously without having a force mother or father. There is no issue here. What made Anakin unique was (1) the force was his father and (2) he had a higher count than any Jedi. And they more or less did have “Tinder” they scanned baby’s blood for midiclorians. I mean that is in the story and is canon.
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
But seriously the entire point of the last 5 years of Star Wars is that bloodlines isn't important.
Disney. Disney did this. This is not what it was. And it muddies the water
I got it.
Spoiler
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jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.06.2018 , 10:44 PM | #39
Quote:
He was also able to do it after 3 years.
actually he was able to close his eyes and concentrate 5 seconds after Obi Wan tell him with the Training driod on the Falcon. Good try though sorry i'm out of participation trophies.


Quote:
Yes, helping Rey. Why didn’t it help Luke beat Vader the first go around?
Well let's see,

1. The Anakin was the chosen one who would bring balance to the force, not Luke.
2. Let's say Luke killed Vader on Cloud City before he learns that Vader is his father. Now he goes to fight the Emperor without that knowledge and the Emperor tells him "Hey kid you killed your father now eat some lighting" Luke loses the Rebels lose.
3. Let's say he Turn Vader on Cloud City. They both go after the Emperor. The Emperor isn't suprised by Vader turning so he just lightings the two of them to death, Rebels lose Emperor wins.

So yeah it wasn't Luke's destiny to win there.


Quote:
LOL so it is about motivation and I mean ugh. It seems some are willing to take anything they can get I guess. The argument is that she was able to over power him with the force.
facepalm.... motivation gives you focus... maybe you have never been movitved in your entire life... but yeah when someone has motivation they have a clear goal in mind its not hard to concentrate. Being able to concentrate just like Maaz taught her she was able to tap into the force and over power a dying angry kid.

Seriously are you trying to be obtuse?

Quote:
Um no, she just says close your eyes and feel the force. Luke was actually instructed and demonstrated. But even then, it took him years to do it. Rey was literally a few moments later.
no again he did it with in 5 seconds of hearing how to do it on the Falcon. Then again when he heard a voice in his head while attacking the Death star.

Quote:
Bias of bad story telling?
... it's the same story as A New Hope....

Quote:
You go on about my examples and facepalm and then you inject this game as some type of metric. Man, you know this game is not canon.
It's not anymore but it was. But again you miss the point. You ignore not only the examples i have shown but every example everyone else has shown.

But let's see if you can explain how Wee Dunn was so strong in the force and use force powers that it took Luke 3 years to master when he was able to do it with out even being 1 year old?


Quote:
Disney. Disney did this. This is not what it was. And it muddies the water
actually it was started with The Clone Wars and Lucas.

Quote:
Actually, I believe my whole argument is strong, otherwise I would not be talking about it.
yeah... you also thought every Japanese pilot in WW2 was a Kamakazi and that Pearl Harbor was nothing but Kamakazis.... so we can see you're thought process isn't the best.

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NuSeC's Avatar


NuSeC
01.07.2018 , 07:42 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
... it's the same story as A New Hope....
Really? What force powers did Luke utilize in ANH vs Rey in TFA?

Luke:
He had Kenobi telling him how to reach out and reflected some blaster fire from a training droid. and then Kenobi's ghost told him to "use the force" when running around the deathstar.
Rey:
Force pull, Jedi mind-trick, telekinetic, force visions, - after she talked to green girl Yoda for literally 15 seconds. Not to mention a saber fight against another force user and won.

Clearly not the same but whatever.

Then you want to build a straw man by pulling in something from another thread. I clearly said what the point was there and that is bad taste as it serves 0 purpose in this thread. We were talking about hyper-driving things into objects. While I may have been wrong on when or where it happened, it did happen.
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