It's very hard for me to understand why Arcann's dubious morality should be a reason not to write a romance involving him. We already have quite a few LIs who've done terrible things, and the player character themselves is capable of great evil. Presenting wicked characters in a story doesn't have to mean endorsing their actions. Sometimes a dark path is an interesting one to describe. I also think the viewpoint that no one is beyond redemption can't automatically be dismissed (though personally I see Arcann more as trying to atone than being fully redeemed).

Regardless of whether you personally think Arcann is redeemed, the writing just doesn't match up... he never felt Dark Side to me, and even if he was, being healed by Voss Mystics doesn't grant Redemption; that requires actual WORK, which Arcann just hasn't put in.

So... from a Light Side perspective, let's say just for the sake of Argument, that he is actually redeemed... that doesn't mean the 50+ billion people have been forgotten about, or that he's been forgiven for all that genocide. I don't see anyone... I mean, especially our characters, getting past the enormity of Arcann's crimes against the Galaxy... but, also, his personal persecution against them.

From a Dark Side perspective, if Arcann is indeed Redeemed... get lost. You were Evil and therefore Interesting Once... this goody goody you claim to be now holds no attraction for me. Kick some puppies, come back, and then we'll talk.

Technically Arcann isn't guilty of genocide. He never hunted a specific group to annihilation. Even the scions aren't extinct. Using the term genocide is inncorect. That said, he does join your Alliance, willingly give up his blood claim to the throne, help you get Vaylin to help you defeat Daddy Dearest, and gives his word to serve you for the rest of his life. We needed a few missions with him post Voss.

You're probably ignorant... which is different than wrong, although that's also entirely possible.

When Arcann is super mad at you... I think it's after you sack his Treasure ship... he orders Vaylin to pick out the 5 most populated planets in the old Galaxy, and pound them into dust. We can assume from this that he's killed the inhabitants of 5 worlds. Now, Planet earth has 7 billion people on it... I'd assume if we're talking about the 5 MOST POPULATED planets in the galaxy, we're looking at 10 billion minimum. Except... Coruscant has over ONE TRILLION people on it... and Coruscant wasn't bombed; it didn't make it into the "top five" most populated planets. So... I think, based on this... Arcann is personally responsible for the deaths of somewhere between 6 and... I dunno. 15 Trillion people... maybe 20 Trillion.

If that doesn't count as a Genocide, I can't imagine what does.

I think fighting during that silly 'trial' (and telling you over and over again they don't' want to hurt you, with the exception of Heskel) is a bit different than Space Hitler's actions, myself.

 

As for the Knights, the lore is that most of them join the Alliance after the Commander joins the throne. You haven't fought every single one of them, and there may be Knights like Finn in the ranks (ie, ones that dissented against Arcann and Vaylin).

 

There's also the son of that Zildrog guy that you meet on Zakuul - and that could have been a compelling tie-in to the current storyline.

 

I just find it hard to believe that the best male Force user they could find for a romance option was someone who is an evil, genocidal dictator who has personally tried to kill you on numerous occasions.

Only slightly worse then having to kill Jaesas entire family to get her to be a romance. Thats a far more personal evil. If guys can have Jaesa we can have a redeemed Arcann its only fair.. its also you know.. just a game for fun and entertainment purposes

They are never going to be able to introduce a romance that *everyone* wants but that doesnt mean they shouldnt do it. Would I care if they introduced a scourge romance despite thinking he is ugly ? Not at all, I just wouldnt romance him.

Only slightly worse then having to kill Jaesas entire family to get her to be a romance. Thats a far more personal evil. If guys can have Jaesa we can have a redeemed Arcann its only fair.. its also you know.. just a game for fun and entertainment purposes

Um. No. I would consider committing genocide, freezing someone in carbonite and wiping out an entire religious order to be far worse than killing Jaesa's parents. And you can choose NOT to hurt her parents at all and still turn her DS, FWIW. It's all about the dialogue in that scene.

You are getting the Arcann romance, and I hope that those of you who wanted it will have fun with it. Play the game as you wish; no harm, no foul. It's pixels, not real life. I don't think anyone should be going into your fan thread to cause trouble or be critical; enjoy Arcann, yay.

But I still think that the following objections that have been discussed are valid:

1. There are nine different vanilla LIs that still have not returned, and fans of those LIs have a right to be frustrated that the game is embarking on a new romance without returning the existing ones. After two years there's no excuse for those LIs not to be back. I think that would be the case even if the new romance was a Light V Jedi who puked rainbows.

2. It takes resources that are very limited away from other content (although this is subjective since any content takes away resources from something else at this point).

3. If the goal was to give a male Force-using LI, there are other choices that might have been acceptable to a wider variety of fans because there's less controversy around them. Even Scourge would probably fit this bill.

4. Some of us do have an objection to the idea that the LS choice was to let a man who committed crimes of that nature completely off the hook, with no consequences or punishment whatsoever...and then force the people he hurt to accept him as a colleague, without any objections from those victims. Personal opinion of course, but some of us do find that to be a problem with the writing. I agree with those here who have said they think the Alliance would have imploded and that people would have walked out or begun plotting against the Commander for it.

Some of us think Arcann is a genocidal monster. That's allowed, just as much as people are allowed to love him. Nobody's stopping you from romancing him if that floats your boat but others can still discuss what they dislike about the character or the storylines involving him (although again, I think people should leave your Arcann love thread alone and let that be a fan space for you all).

Some of us think Arcann is a genocidal monster. That's allowed, just as much as people are allowed to love him. Nobody's stopping you from romancing him if that floats your boat but others can still discuss what they dislike about the character or the storylines involving him (although again, I think people should leave your Arcann love thread alone and let that be a fan space for you all).

Agreed! People should be able to share their opinion and discuss whatever they want in the appropriate place! If people think Arcann is a monster that's fine, if you don't, awesome.

I do think that once it's done and implement, the hate will calm down, of course people's feelings won't change! So many people hated Quinn too, now that he has been killed off, nobody really cares anymore. That and time passed. Soon there will be another character that'll take its place that we can all hate or love.

It's a vicious cycle.

Agreed! People should be able to share their opinion and discuss whatever they want in the appropriate place! If people think Arcann is a monster that's fine, if you don't, awesome.

I do think that once it's done and implement, the hate will calm down, of course people's feelings won't change! So many people hated Quinn too, now that he has been killed off, nobody really cares anymore. That and time passed. Soon there will be another character that'll take its place that we can all hate or love.

 

It's a vicious cycle.

It really is...

IMHO if there is a lot of good info in the roadmap, they return more companions and it turns out that the Arcann romance is a two-minute cut scene like the most recent reunions, there will also be less ire, because people will feel that resources are being dedicated to their LIs or their play styles of interest too. If the Arcann thing is a full out mission...well...I can envision that leading to more rage. TBH, unless there are also missions for the existing LIs.

It really is...

 

IMHO if there is a lot of good info in the roadmap, they return more companions and it turns out that the Arcann romance is a two-minute cut scene like the most recent reunions, there will also be less ire, because people will feel that resources are being dedicated to their LIs or their play styles of interest too. If the Arcann thing is a full out mission...well...I can envision that leading to more rage. TBH, unless there are also missions for the existing LIs.

I guess there is that chance, though I do think that given time, people would move on from that as well. I mean I could be wrong, but I do find it a bit hard to believe that one year later, people will still talk about how Arcann got a 10 minute romance scene, when there's other things to dislike and be mad at. Unless he's be the absolute last love interest or addition to the game! But I think we'd have bigger concerns at that point.

I remember the GC outrage, and a lot of changes were made to it, time passed. It's still not my favourite system but eh, it's alright!

but I do find it a bit hard to believe that one year later, people will still talk about how Arcann got a 10 minute romance scene

One year later and this thread is still going on.

Remember that one? We had a verbal war going on in that one for awhile.

One year later and this thread is still going on.

 

Remember that one? We had a verbal war going on in that one for awhile.

Oh, I did not mean to say that nobody will talk about it anymore, it just won't be a hot topic. Not that many threads are created about Vaylin, or how people are happy to have slaughtered Quinn. Yet the Quinn lovers are still around. Hating a character only goes for so long! People will certainly hate Arcann, and when someone creates a topic, those that share the opinion will post in it, then it'll die down because it all has been said already and for so long. It just comes up more often now as we're nearing the actual release. "Nearing":rak_03:

I mean I could be wrong, I just find it hard to believe people will be so passionate about that romance that got added one year + ago. Especially as other aspects of the game (hopefully) have been added and the story continues!

Well, all these character threads didn't start until just before the Iokath War started ... besides, back then, most threads were outrage over the CXP introduction + grind.

Not that many threads are created about Vaylin

I'll do it later!

Well, all these character threads didn't start until just before the Iokath War started ... besides, back then, most threads were outrage over the CXP introduction + grind.

 

 

 

I'll do it later!

Yeah that's true! And I'm sure you will.

 

I mean I could be wrong, I just find it hard to believe people will be so passionate about that romance that got added one year + ago. Especially as other aspects of the game (hopefully) have been added and the story continues!

I really think this is going to be the key. If they've added back companions, added scenes with the existing LIs, etc. it will fade into the background. IF however they do some mission with Arcann, and there isn't comparable content added for the other LIs, I do think people will continue to be angry. The Elara/Quinn reunions were almost a year ago now, and people are still salty about how that was handled.

I really think this is going to be the key. If they've added back companions, added scenes with the existing LIs, etc. it will fade into the background. IF however they do some mission with Arcann, and there isn't comparable content added for the other LIs, I do think people will continue to be angry. The Elara/Quinn reunions were almost a year ago now, and people are still salty about how that was handled.

Yeah, that's why I said feelings won't change, but it isn't the discussion of the day anymore. Even as more, some or "plenty" have considered the recent returns were a couple of bad reunion scenes​, it doesn't seem to fire up the Elara/Quinn return. It gets mentioned, it either gets ignored or a few agree, that from my experience seems to be it.

Even Therons traitor arc, so many people were mad and so many people hated his hair, currently, it died down, like most topics do. The next wrap up will fire it up again, and then after a while it'll be over once more.

Hating a character only goes for so long, but loving a character seems to go on for a long time. I think the Quinn thread is an example of that.

Only slightly worse then having to kill Jaesas entire family to get her to be a romance. Thats a far more personal evil. If guys can have Jaesa we can have a redeemed Arcann its only fair.. its also you know.. just a game for fun and entertainment purposes.

Actually, you do not need to kill her family. My Warrior had his alignment set in dark side, but I still took the light side decisions. I was given the option to either turn Jaesa to dark side or to tell her to remain in light. I could still romance her when I told her to embrace her passions.

To be fair to Eshvara, plenty of people (including myself) posted things here that I'd consider more off-topic than her, without being singled out, attacked, and told to stop posting like Eshvara. I do actually think some of those comments have crossed the line.

Perhaps it's harder to see if one considers Eshvara to be "on the other side." If anyone has such difficulty, I would recommend a mental exercise of switching the posters' names and/or who/what they're lobbying for, but keeping the tone of their post the same, and asking yourself if you still feel the same way about the acceptability and courteousness of the post. It's something I do if I'm trying to neutrally assess the courteousness of people I agree or disagree with in any debate. Others may find it useful too.

You modified the text, that's obvious. Stop making things up, you're only embarrassing yourself !

I followed the link and it says, right now, in your post, exactly what is quoted. I stand in witness to the words. I don't understand why you would accuse someone of modifying the text when it's plain to see at this very minute what's actually in your post.

I don't necessarily have to respond to everything, I can agree with that. But when false rumours are spread that are supposed to taint whatever reputation I may have here, I have a problem with that.

I see. I have been on the Bioware forums since 2010, and trolls have seen a lot.

Unfortunately, blinded by hate opponents are not interested in dialogue. They will pervert your words and set up other people against you.

There are two types of struggle with such individuals:

- complete ignoring (let them rage in silence)

- an open confrontation with the use of their own weapons - rudeness and trolling. (the worst option - with him the reputation will be destroyed)

-and the most incredible option is when both opponents step over their enmity and ... become great friends.

I had such a case.

I see. I have been on the Bioware forums since 2010, and trolls have seen a lot.

Unfortunately, blinded by hate opponents are not interested in dialogue. They will pervert your words and set up other people against you.

 

There are two types of struggle with such individuals:

- complete ignoring (let them rage in silence)

- an open confrontation with the use of their own weapons - rudeness and trolling. (the worst option - with him the reputation will be destroyed)

-and the most incredible option is when both opponents step over their enmity and ... become great friends.

I had such a case.

I see, I'm glad your case got resolved.

I'll leave this thread be, I hope nobody will continue to respond to the matter and continue to discuss the topic at hand. Thanks again!

And have a good day.

So much Time/Manpower and Money invested in a Arcann Romance.

But so less interess from the Bioware Devs to our old Companions and Love Companions. Why Bioware dont invest so much Time/Manpower and Money in the other Companions. Why so litte love for Corso/Andronikos/Risha/Elara/Lt. Iresso........ I Mean i go 3-4 Years with Iresso throgh all the Storys. Except KOTFE/KOTET because i will lose him and get a Arcann Romance for him.

Voice Output cost much Money. So we will only get Arcann because no Money is left for other companions.

So much People want a Male Force User for a Love Romance. Here is my Suggestion to you Bioware.

Give us in your 6.0 Expansion 2 new Male Force User for a Romance. Give us this 2 Male in a good Story where we can meet them in the new Story and possible romance 1 or both of them.

So much People beg Bioware for 3 years to give us a New explorable Plantet. Like Onderon/Dxun/Kashyk/Dantooine or other Planets. Yes this is Story Content and Small Group Content and bigger Group Content. This is Content for more People then the Arcann fans. But No No, invest all your Manpower/Time/Money to Arcann Romance. Make all the Story for Arcann and give us no Story or less well Story for other Content Like KOTFE/KOTET.

Ignore the Casual Players Ignore the PVE Players Ignore the PVP Players Ignore the Story Players. So much Story Players left, because of no interest in Arcann and KOTFE/KOTET.

About 2 Years no new PVE Content. Then Slowly the devs develop a New Operation but 1 year is left and we only have 4 Boss fights. In 2 Years 1 PVP Map. 3 years no new explorable Plantet. But invest your Manpower/Time/Money in Arcann Romance.

But i Need to say, Im happy that with Keith as the New Boss the game slowly going back to repeatable Content.

So much Time/Manpower and Money invested in a Arcann Romance.

There is? I have yet to see anything to actually back that up.

There is? I have yet to see anything to actually back that up.

Honestly i cant prove this 100%.

But BW will invest more Time/Manpower/Money in the Arcann Romance then in other Romance. BW announced the Arcann Romance. And if they announce somthing offical, then they will invest some Time/Manpower/Money. But no new Infos about Iresso/Kira/Vector/Jaesa/Doc Or Zenith/Khem.........

The writter of Arcann announced this on Twitter. You can prove this on the Internet. And i think this Person will write or help to write the Arcann Romance. When BW hire this Person to do this then they will invest Time/Manpower/Money.

I Need to say im happy for this Person to write this.

But where is the same invest in other popular Companions?

The writter of Arcann announced this on Twitter. You can prove this on the Internet. And i think this Person will write or help to write the Arcann Romance. When BW hire this Person to do this then they will invest Time/Manpower/Money.

Yes, I saw her Twitter post too. But don't confuse a writer writing lines for one companion for the entire budget. She writes aspects of the whole game, not just one character. It's a gross generalization and leads to this "my companion is more important than your companion" jealousy and personal attacks that are currently infecting the forums.

Yes, I saw her Twitter post too. But don't confuse a writer writing lines for one companion for the entire budget. She writes aspects of the whole game, not just one character. It's a gross generalization and leads to this "my companion is more important than your companion" jealousy and personal attacks that are currently infecting the forums.

This is your Opinion. Its OK.

I never attack other Players! Look at all my Posts.

But is see so much insults like: Hooligan or Trolls at other People for having a other Opinon. And i never see Arguments or Suggestions like my first post or my latest post. Only hate from some Arcann Lovers.

I ask you honestly is this OK?