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3 Questions for PT. Lets DO IT!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
3 Questions for PT. Lets DO IT!
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
03.11.2014 , 01:23 AM | #11
About question 1: I don't think this will happen. Based on what I've seen them doing, they won't actively try to make a hybrid work.
I would prefer it, if we would simply point out the lack of damage we see and ask how they intend to improve the situation of AP and Pyro in PvE.

About question 2: I think, I've explained clearly in the other thread, why I don't think we are going to get another cc, but asking doesn't hurt. It's not like I have a better question to suggest.

About question 3: I like how question 3 addresses all our talents that conflict with stats (at least all talents, I'm aware of).


All in all, I'm happy with the topic of each question, but I think question 1 should be posed a bit differently.

Halfway off-topic: Wouldn't this be Jerc's job? Where is he? Thanks for doing something anyway, Kooziejr.


Edit: And could you improve the format of the questions a bit to make them easier on the eyes? I'm sure everyone would appreciate it.

Edit again (It's early in the morning.): We could make a feedback section like Shadows did in the last round. In this feedback section we could mention the different proc chance for PT/Merc/Vanguard/Commando.
I think this is the only thing that is really worth to bring up in this feedback section. Otherwise it becomes a mess.

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
03.11.2014 , 02:27 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by THE_Qh View Post
I don't think there is any point of bringing up the pyro/AP hybrid since BW hate all the hybrid builds, can't see it ever coming back.

From a PvE point of view both of the full damage trees need a buff and the 2-piece PvE set bonus is currently useless because explosive fuel will always be synchronized and used with the shoulder cannon, reducing it's cooldown just means it sits there waiting for the shoulder cannon to come of CD and load. Also should mention the dot damage of retractable blade and incendiary since their damage was nerfed to discourage the use of the hybrid which doesnt exist anymore

So yeah basically, use the 2-piece set bonus to increase the damage and improve the dots, that shouldn't affect PvP too much and it would improve the PvE performance
While I would like to include the fact that the question asking for the hybrid to be returned wont get a positive result (Biowares stance on hybrids is quite plainly obvious, even though the changes to sorcs/sages dont go with it), saying the 2-piece is bad due to a desynch between explosive fuel + shoulder cannon is wrong (90 second cooldown +15 second load time on shoulder cannon, while explosive fuel is 120 second cooldown, or 105 with the set bonus, making it synch perfectly with shoulder cannon), and increasing the DoTs will make PvP PTs even stronger. Pyros problems are resource management (fixed with a slight boost in resource regeneration) and alacrity vs PPA, while AP's problems are too big for just a buff to RB - though making Flame Barrage build stacks to reduce the cost of rocket punch instead of RNG from flame burst for a 100% reduction and making power loaders also reduce the cooldown of shoulder cannon would fix AP without really affecting PvP (sure the burst comes more often, but even a 45 second cooldown on shoulder cannon would have minimal effects in short-term PvP fights and long-term PvP fights are when AP PTs start falling apart). However, Im not gonna go about making suggestions, as they typically get ignored..

Blitz-wing's Avatar


Blitz-wing
03.11.2014 , 05:51 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
saying the 2-piece is bad due to a desynch between explosive fuel + shoulder cannon is wrong (90 second cooldown +15 second load time on shoulder cannon, while explosive fuel is 120 second cooldown, or 105 with the set bonus, making it synch perfectly with shoulder cannon),
You fail to add in the time needed to use Shoulder Cannon. Explosive Fuel lasts 20 seconds and goes on cooldown once activated. Therefore you have 20 seconds to fire all 4 or 7 rockets before Shoulder Cannon goes on cooldown. There is no point in having Explosive Fuel off cd earlier if you are just going to wait for Shoulder Cannon to reload after coming off cd, if you are able to activate Shoulder Cannon the second in comes off cd.

So: Shoulder Cannon = 20s firing + 90s cd + 15s load = 125 seconds

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
03.11.2014 , 05:54 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Blitz-wing View Post
You fail to add in the time needed to use Shoulder Cannon. Explosive Fuel lasts 20 seconds and goes on cooldown once activated. Therefore you have 20 seconds to fire all 4 or 7 rockets before Shoulder Cannon goes on cooldown. There is no point in having Explosive Fuel off cd earlier if you are just going to wait for Shoulder Cannon to reload after coming off cd, if you are able to activate Shoulder Cannon the second in comes off cd.

So: Shoulder Cannon = 20s firing + 90s cd + 15s load = 125 seconds
How do you spend 20 seconds firing shoulder cannon? Its 4-7 seconds depending on spec. And dont say "So it can be spread out through explosive fuel". Damage done at the start of it is exactly the same as damage done at the end of it.

Blitz-wing's Avatar


Blitz-wing
03.11.2014 , 06:03 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
How do you spend 20 seconds firing shoulder cannon? Its 4-7 seconds depending on spec. And dont say "So it can be spread out through explosive fuel". Damage done at the start of it is exactly the same as damage done at the end of it.
You don't have to use all 20 seconds BUT you HAVE 20seconds to use all rockets before Explosive Fuel ends. There are reasons why you need to delay using your Shoulder Cannon:
  • Target Died
  • Tank Swap
  • Prototype Flame Thrower
  • Movement because of Mechanics
  • Other

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
03.11.2014 , 06:07 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Blitz-wing View Post
You don't have to use all 20 seconds BUT you HAVE 20seconds to use all rockets before Explosive Fuel ends. There are reasons why you need to delay using your Shoulder Cannon:
  • Target Died
  • Tank Swap
  • Prototype Flame Thrower
  • Movement because of Mechanics
  • Other
PARSE EVIDENCE:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=685275

Top Log for VG/PT: http://www.torparse.com/a/575571/tim...253/0/Overview

Shoulder Cannon hits: 13 (so we can assume its loaded 4 times or shenanigans for 5 starting missiles, im willing to guess its the second one for your sake)
The last shoulder cannon is used at 11:03:25.700. The log then goes on for another 48.135 seconds. With the log length at 4:33.952 it means that shoulder cannon was done at 3:45.817, and assuming 3 activations (for your sake) this means that worst case scenario shoulder cannon has a cooldown of 112.9085 seconds, much less than your suspected 120 seconds that you are crying doomsday about. Though if you want we can drop the cooldown boost on the set bonus by only 7 so it perfectly synchs up with shoulder cannon...

As for what you said:

TARGET DIES - in most cases in an operation there will either be a target right next to the first, or the boss is dead, or you're doing it wrong.
Tank Swap - Tanks shouldn't be taking the 2-piece DPS set bonus
Prototype Flamethrower - While I admit this is a good one, PFT can be played around quite easily
Movement because of mechanics - 10 meter range, so there are only a couple of situations where this could stop shoulder cannon working properly. Or you're doing it wrong.
Other - Because you ran out of excuses.

Blitz-wing's Avatar


Blitz-wing
03.11.2014 , 06:32 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
PARSE EVIDENCE:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=685275

Top Log for VG/PT: http://www.torparse.com/a/575571/tim...253/0/Overview

Shoulder Cannon hits: 13 (so we can assume its loaded 4 times or shenanigans for 5 starting missiles, im willing to guess its the second one for your sake)
The last shoulder cannon is used at 11:03:25.700. The log then goes on for another 48.135 seconds. With the log length at 4:33.952 it means that shoulder cannon was done at 3:45.817, and assuming 3 activations (for your sake) this means that worst case scenario shoulder cannon has a cooldown of 112.9085 seconds, much less than your suspected 120 seconds that you are crying doomsday about. Though if you want we can drop the cooldown boost on the set bonus by only 7 so it perfectly synchs up with shoulder cannon...

As for what you said:

TARGET DIES - in most cases in an operation there will either be a target right next to the first, or the boss is dead, or you're doing it wrong.
Tank Swap - Tanks shouldn't be taking the 2-piece DPS set bonus
Prototype Flamethrower - While I admit this is a good one, PFT can be played around quite easily
Movement because of mechanics - 10 meter range, so there are only a couple of situations where this could stop shoulder cannon working properly. Or you're doing it wrong.
Other - Because you ran out of excuses.
Dummy Parse:
Usage time - Best 7sec, slowest 12sec.
Reset time - Best 101sec, slowest 114sec.

That's on the dummy not in an operation. where there is a lot more happening then just standing still & watching you ability bars.

As for the reason:
Target does not = Boss. Adds are a good target for Shoulder Cannon burst. eg. Dread Master Cal 1st future portal, Raptus Challanges, Beatia Larva/Monsters/Tentacle, Draxuus Corruptor's, Bronte's Fingers etc.
Tank Swap - meaning the tanks swap & pull the target out of range. eg. Bestia, Monsters & Larva. Dread Council Cal & Bestia.
Mechanics - Dread Council Tryans pull & Brontes teleport, Tyrans Simplifcation.
Other - others are mainly l2p issues. eg. phase change timing.

For the use of the 2pc set bonus i think it can be put to better use then as a chance to boost damage to Shoulder Cannon.

Kooziejr's Avatar


Kooziejr
03.11.2014 , 06:37 AM | #18
To reply to everyone without quoting: Yes this is Jerc's job but I havent seen him and because I want this done properly I am happy to work on it until he returns or the devs want the questions.

First of all, thanks for the extremely constructive replies. I agree, asking for the hybrid will not end well for us so I agree we should simply state the nerfs to the DoTs were to discourage it etc (I will amend this).

I would like to point out I have been Parsing and doing some PvE content to get a feel of where the PvE folks are coming from and I tend to agree the damage is a little lacklustre! I have also been tanking in ranked 4 v 4s and it has become more salient than ever the disparity between the tank classes and their crowd control abilities. I really think these questions must be asked!

What is the verdict on the PvE 2 set bonus? Beware I wear PvE 2 set bonus on some of my toons for PvP because it is possible to "trick" bolster (e.g., 1.5 off sorc innervate heal)....so unless they fix this (which they haven't at this point only the PvE weapons for PvP in 2.7).

These are very rough drafts. Do not worry, I will write the questions properly once we have agreed on everything! So formatting/grammar is irrelevant at this point :-)
Koozie
/creampie

ReclaimerDonar's Avatar


ReclaimerDonar
03.11.2014 , 06:38 AM | #19
I agree with most of what Koozie said, however iam concerned about the amount of CC already in the game, adding more for PT will be crazy, i think that better solution would be nerfing CCs of other tanks (Sin/Jugg).
The Darsten Legacy

Kooziejr's Avatar


Kooziejr
03.11.2014 , 07:03 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by ReclaimerDonar View Post
I agree with most of what Koozie said, however iam concerned about the amount of CC already in the game, adding more for PT will be crazy, i think that better solution would be nerfing CCs of other tanks (Sin/Jugg).
I agree sins should not have whirlwind and Juggs should NOT have backhand for the game to be more even (in fact i have updated the question to reflect your input). If bioware implemented a CC it was almost definitely be a single target cast that could be interrupted. Further, it would only be in the tank tree. Either way man people just play sin and jugg tanks now because they have these tools....so regardless the same amount of CC will be there.... Putting the CC in the PT tree just allows people to play PT tank too instead of just juggs and sins with there insane CCs. A few sin tanks are running a low slash build giving them an additional 12 seconds of mez a minute. Taking their CC to a total over 1 minute 15 every 3 mins. Man if you get a good one playing this it can be infuriating as a healer - not to mention they have insane burst and i have seen 9.4 K mauls - http://www.twitch.tv/mosh47/c/3840368 (Im shushh the heals!) - obviously is becomes extremely difficult to play this spec against the top 1-5% of ranked players but against anyone else its OP as hell!

I share your concerns for this but its not like either PT DPS will be able to touch something like this and bads won't use it anyways and the ones that do will cast it in your face. I mean seriously...how often do you get CCd by a sin whirlwhind in regs? Even in ranked it is hard to get the cast off unless you have shroud running.....So why ask for it then??? Well I think it is one way to make the PT tank viable in high end ranked (the only place people will even try to use a skill like this properly). Remember, this isn't a hard stun we are asking for...it is just a crowd control single target that we have about 25% chance of getting - bioware has previously stated that they too believe PT tanks have less crowd control than others and even hinted that we should ask them about it!

FInally talking about defensive cooldowns for PT tank is a waste of space because it would screw with PvE too much. Moreover, after playing ranked arenas for 4 -5 hours on PT tank I believe the defensive cooldowns are fair. Sorcs/Sages destroy you but this game is scissors paper rock so everything should and does have a counter!

Please keep the constructive feedback coming! Lets make these questions worthwhile and hit the big issues with good evidence/support!
Koozie
/creampie