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Change to Cartel Color Crystals and Weapon Tunings with Legacy Weapons

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Change to Cartel Color Crystals and Weapon Tunings with Legacy Weapons
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Thoniei's Avatar


Thoniei
07.11.2017 , 09:34 PM | #321
Ugh Keith please don't call this an exploit . If this is a loophole you want to have closed ok but don't call me a cheater for using a feature that was ok'd by a dev years ago. I understand that you aren't banning anyone but "exploit" is not a cool word to use under these circumstances.

The fact that this will take until August to fix is not want I wanted to hear. Honestly I am pretty disappointed right now. Also the "fix" is an improvement but also not what I wanted to hear. When I buy a cartel item (either via a hypercrate or for $$$ credits on the GTN which encourages others to buy cartel coins) I expect to be able to actually use that item. I don't want to pay another fee to use it.

If I cannot put it on 1 legacy weapon then I cannot use the crystal or tunning . To make me happy I would like to see the proposed system with a weapon costume designer slot. That way the stats are separate from the look and I can put the cosmetic items on the characters of my choice. If we can't have a weapon costume slot then please make it so that additional copies cannot be claimed without the cartel unlcok. That way I can put a tuning or crystal on 1 legacy weapon but I can't have free copies for the other weapon types. Once again if I can't put them on legacy weapons then I can't use the items at all (until we get a weapon costume slot) and its not fair to ask me to pay additional money to use the item once on one weapon.

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
07.11.2017 , 09:35 PM | #322
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
did you not read Keith's post earlier in this thread? because you should, before you hastily reply again, and put another foot in your mouth
Let me break it down for you ...

Quote:
With Patch 5.2.2, we made a change so everyone could take advantage of the Weapon Tunings across their account. We did that by adding them into Collections. This is the same process we use for Flairs, Armor Sets, Mounts, Crystals, Weapons, Pets, and more. This appeared to be a very welcomed change, but over the past month we found out players were subverting the collection system by using an exploit related to Legacy Weapons.
Subject of that is ...??? Weapon Tunings. Where does it say anything about the exploit relating to crystals? Where does he say the past use of unlocking crystals was an exploit (even though imo it clearly was).


Quote:
and to adress the question of semantics above? the crystal situation existed in game for years. for as long as cartel market existed. if in that time they didn't realize that people used it to unlock crystals in collections.. they were either willfully blind (its not like anyone was hiding it either, people have outright posted about it on the forums) or they have implicitly admitted that its part of "not exploit"
Well luckily we have much more competent management now then right who can cotton on to these things and do something about it right? Crystal unlocking, bug or exploit, it's fixed either way.

Quote:
I'm honestly having gambling machine deco dejavu right now.
Wish I had a bingo card for every time someone has an issue with something in the game and tries to relate it back to CSM. They aren't even closely related.

Quote:
and given as I am one of the people who used 50% off sale to unlock crystals in collections, mostly out of sheer laziness - transferring crystals across plethora of alts is a time consuming drag, easier to just unlock them for 30 to 120 cartel coins. so with 5.4 its back to business as usual for me. its the principle of a thing.
The principal of what thing? That an obvious exploit costing the company money shouldn't be fixed because "it's always been that way" - is that the sort of principals you like to follow in life?

StonecipherMud's Avatar


StonecipherMud
07.11.2017 , 09:40 PM | #323
You are really gonna wait till 5.4 to fix this? I'm gonna vote using the mighty dollar and cancel my sub

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
07.11.2017 , 09:41 PM | #324
Quote: Originally Posted by Thoniei View Post
Ugh Keith please don't call this an exploit . If this is a loophole you want to have closed ok but don't call me a cheater for using a feature that was ok'd by a dev years ago. I understand that you aren't banning anyone but "exploit" is not a cool word to use under these circumstances. .
Eric never actually stated removing the crystal to legacy unlock the item on another toon was not an exploit though. It was never stated it WAS an exploit either.

Quote:
If I cannot put it on 1 legacy weapon then I cannot use the crystal or tunning . To make me happy I would like to see the proposed system with a weapon costume designer slot. That way the stats are separate from the look and I can put the cosmetic items on the characters of my choice. If we can't have a weapon costume slot then please make it so that additional copies cannot be claimed without the cartel unlcok. That way I can put a tuning or crystal on 1 legacy weapon but I can't have free copies for the other weapon types. Once again if I can't put them on legacy weapons then I can't use the items at all (until we get a weapon costume slot) and its not fair to ask me to pay additional money to use the item once on one weapon.
That's a whole different topic really - "do away with collection unlock prices". There is no reason they should do it only for crystals and tunings, you can't send/share other CM items with other toons without legacy unlocking them first so why should it be different for crystals and tunings?

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
07.11.2017 , 09:56 PM | #325
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
Let me break it down for you ...



Subject of that is ...??? Weapon Tunings. Where does it say anything about the exploit relating to crystals? Where does he say the past use of unlocking crystals was an exploit (even though imo it clearly was).




Well luckily we have much more competent management now then right who can cotton on to these things and do something about it right? Crystal unlocking, bug or exploit, it's fixed either way.



Wish I had a bingo card for every time someone has an issue with something in the game and tries to relate it back to CSM. They aren't even closely related.



The principal of what thing? That an obvious exploit costing the company money shouldn't be fixed because "it's always been that way" - is that the sort of principals you like to follow in life?
let me break this down to YOU. he says its an exploit related to legacy weapons. specifically transferring an item via legacy weapon and pulling it out, unlocking it for that character in collections. seeing as this was made impossible for both crystals AND weapon tunings, not just weapon tunings? he did indeed call it an exploit.

the principle of thing is that they took something that they stated was NOT an exploit and are now calling it one. he didn't say loophole. he said EXPLOIT. he very specificaly just accused a bulk of the playerbase of deliberately exploiting the game. for years. despite this originally being ok'd by previous management.

I totally want this game to be run by people who do this sort of thing /eyeroll

P.S. it is related to CSM in that 1. some people have tried to claim that using that machine copiously pre nerf was an exploit. 2. it was nerfed into the ground with very little warning. 3. it was a cartel market item people paid money for. but sure, not related at all.

meh, why do I even bother with you?

what's done is done. I'm just expressing my dissatisfaction with how it was handled. so much for "new hope" in Keith. sure lets leave the bugs that make the game difficult to enjoy present it game, must... hotfix... collections... yeah yeah, profits.... funny story.. if they tried to make the game more appealing to more people, polished it up a bit, and all... they would have more paying customers and less of a need to nickle and dime the few that remain.

Icykill_'s Avatar


Icykill_
07.11.2017 , 10:11 PM | #326
Quote: Originally Posted by KeithKanneg View Post
Hey all,

Letís review todayís Crystals and Weapon Tuning change and what caused it. With Patch 5.2.2, we made a change so everyone could take advantage of the Weapon Tunings across their account. We did that by adding them into Collections. This is the same process we use for Flairs, Armor Sets, Mounts, Crystals, Weapons, Pets, and more. This appeared to be a very welcomed change, but over the past month we found out players were subverting the collection system by using an exploit related to Legacy Weapons. Sure, you can argue itís been that way for a long time, but Weapon Tunings were new and being able to use them across your entire account is a cool benefit.

What happened is some players would add the Tuning to a legacy weapon, send to an Alt, remove it on that Alt, re-add it to the weapon, which would then incorrectly unlock it in Collections on that toon. They would then send that weapon to all of their toons and perform the same process. Thus circumventing the entire collection system and obtaining Weapon Tunings for their legacy without having to pay for it. As everyone has pointed out, Crystals sold via the Cartel Market could also be collection unlocked this way, and in fact, as players have clearly stated in this thread, theyíve been doing that for a very long time.

We did not impact the ability to use Crystals and Tunings in Legacy Weapons and we did not prevent you transferring mods, hilts, barrels, augments, or enhancements, through your legacy weapons (which I do all the time). This change did create a situation for all of us who are using Collections properly where there is an added step (and credit cost) to moving weapons. Our plan with Patch 5.4 in August is to resolve this new issue by allowing Collection Unlocked Crystals and Tunings to be transferred using your legacy weapons as you did previously (no cost/no removing of the items first).

As most of you already know, we do not communicate details about exploits and typically only acknowledge their existence after a fix has been deployed. In this case, we included it with our Patch Notes yesterday so you knew ahead of time what we were doing today. I also know this makes some of you unhappy, but the loophole needed to be closed and we did that in todayís patch.

---Keith
Hi Keith,

I don't know if anyone else posted this, I haven't read the whole thread...
You mention making it cost zero credits to remove them the first time. Can we get something like this for removing armor, mods, enhancements, hilts and barrels out of CXP gear the first time, not subsequent times.
Lots of us don't use the CXP armor shells or we need to upgrade certain internals and need to remove some. This is especially true if you've already augmented your excellent looking main armor set 😉
It would be nice to be able to pull those things out of those shells at no cost the first time. But it would also be nice for them to cost a bit less if removing them subsequent times after that.

Please consider doing this -

First time removal of internals from CXP gear to be free
Subsequent removal of internals at half the current cost.

FYI, before anyone says just make outfits, I already have 10-11 outfits on each of my 89 toons 😊
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DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
07.11.2017 , 10:23 PM | #327
Wow, this has gone waaay down a rabbit-hole of pointless semantics. When Eric said it wasn't an "exploit" it was specifically in the context of "will we take punitive action against the accounts of players who do this?" - the answer was "no". And they stood by that announcement: just as Eric said back then, they haven't taken punitive action against anyone for moving Crystals via Legacy weapons. If they had suddenly started doing that, then yeah, they'd be going back on what they said.

That certainly doesn't mean it was "working as intended", and it doesn't mean it wasn't a "loophole" in the Collections system that they had every right to close at any time they saw fit.

So whether you call it an "exploit", call it a "loophole", or just say it wasn't "working as intended" it is all the same:
  • They said they weren't going to punish accounts that transferred Crystals - that the only thing they "promised" anyone when Eric said "it's not an exploit".
  • They didn't punish accounts that transferred Crystals - they have always kept their "promise".
  • They had the right to change the system at any time to stop players from circumventing the Collections setup - nothing about saying "it's not an exploit" (i.e., "we're not going to punish players for doing this") changed that.
  • They decided it wasn't worth the effort / expense to change the system when it only impacted Color Crystals.
  • Once it started impacting Weapon Tunings, in addition to still impacting Color Crystals, they decided it was worth the effort / expense to change the system.
  • They changed the system.
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ZambedosNB's Avatar


ZambedosNB
07.11.2017 , 10:26 PM | #328
Oh look, another reason to not waste money buying things off the CM.
I thought selling items with broken textures and never fixing them was bad.
But selling items that break other useful in game features? Let me grab my wallet ASAP.
It's hilarious how much this is going to backfire.

Icykill_'s Avatar


Icykill_
07.11.2017 , 10:27 PM | #329
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
let me break this down to YOU. he says its an exploit related to legacy weapons. specifically transferring an item via legacy weapon and pulling it out, unlocking it for that character in collections. seeing as this was made impossible for both crystals AND weapon tunings, not just weapon tunings? he did indeed call it an exploit.

the principle of thing is that they took something that they stated was NOT an exploit and are now calling it one. he didn't say loophole. he said EXPLOIT. he very specificaly just accused a bulk of the playerbase of deliberately exploiting the game. for years. despite this originally being ok'd by previous management.

I totally want this game to be run by people who do this sort of thing /eyeroll

P.S. it is related to CSM in that 1. some people have tried to claim that using that machine copiously pre nerf was an exploit. 2. it was nerfed into the ground with very little warning. 3. it was a cartel market item people paid money for. but sure, not related at all.

meh, why do I even bother with you?

what's done is done. I'm just expressing my dissatisfaction with how it was handled. so much for "new hope" in Keith. sure lets leave the bugs that make the game difficult to enjoy present it game, must... hotfix... collections... yeah yeah, profits.... funny story.. if they tried to make the game more appealing to more people, polished it up a bit, and all... they would have more paying customers and less of a need to nickle and dime the few that remain.
You do realise it was probably a select group doing this over and over across all their toons to "exploit" and circumvent paying to open up those items in the collections.
I'm sure others didn't even realise what they were doing and had just been moving crystals. But because weapon tunings are rare and therefore cost more to open up in collections, Bio started to lose real money because some people were doing this and the information on how to do it was spreading.
An exploit doesn't mean people are just doing it on purpose to obtain an advantage, it means they are obtaining an unforeseen advantage because something isn't working as intended.
You will note that in 5.4 they will be allowing you to transfer them again, but only if you have already unlocked them in your legacy, which is how the system is "intended" to work. This is obviously a bandaid fix till the next patch until they can fix it.
You will note that every other item in the collections "must" be opened up to be used by other alts. This should be no different for these. If you are QQing about it then it would seem you maybe up set because you are losing your ability to gain an advantage through an unforeseen bug. That is the definition of an exploiter.
So don't blame Keith for doing his Job, I think closing exploits and fixing bugs in any part of the game should be a priority before any new content. Now we just need him to get all those other bugs and exploits fixed... ie operative roll in Hutt Ball where they sink into the floor as they roll up ramps or off ledges and you can't target them, which = free goal if they are carrying the ball 🙄
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HKtheindomitable's Avatar


HKtheindomitable
07.11.2017 , 10:28 PM | #330
Quote: Originally Posted by KeithKanneg View Post

We did not impact the ability to use Crystals and Tunings in Legacy Weapons and we did not prevent you transferring mods, hilts, barrels, augments, or enhancements, through your legacy weapons (which I do all the time). This change did create a situation for all of us who are using Collections properly where there is an added step (and credit cost) to moving weapons. Our plan with Patch 5.4 in August is to resolve this new issue by allowing Collection Unlocked Crystals and Tunings to be transferred using your legacy weapons as you did previously (no cost/no removing of the items first).
Approval: Thank you Kieth for the explanation for the change. The move that was made is understandable.

Query: Would it not have been simpler/just as easy to add a "bound to X character" on the item, resulting in the item not unlocking in collections on Y character if removed, or something to that effect? Or maybe if the item isn't unlocked in collections, it gets destroyed when removed on a character that it wasn't originally bound to, like when removing dye modules?

Query: What about CM crystals and Tunings that are unbound, placed in legacy weapons, and sent off? (I am not able to get in game right now to confirm/deny that, but I've heard from guilies that no CM crystals or tunings can be placed in legacy weapons, even when bought straight from the GTN.)
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