We run 2 raid groups, 8 man and 16 man, and have been killing these guys on both since the first week of 1.2 on live, and also in both operations on the PTR for weeks before that.

 

We have never had someone get the debuff who was doing what he was supposed to be doing. Ever.

 

It sounds to me like your sorc doesn't want to admit he messed up and is trying to blame it on a nonexistant bug.

 

So hardpeck do you agree with the forum opinion that 8 man is harder?

last night we kept hitting a bug where the tank on zorn would get 1 shot. after checking the combat logs this is what we found in each attempt that it happened

 

Death 1

20:48:49.338 Anubis's Sundering Assault hits Zorn for 515 energy damage, causing 773 threat.

20:48:49.755 Zorn's Mental Anguish (Any) hits Anubis for 346 internal damage, causing 346 threat.

20:48:51.778 Anubis gains 1 .

20:48:51.778 Zorn's Mental Anguish (Any) hits Anubis for 346 internal damage, causing 346 threat.

20:48:52.439 Demelza's Hunter's Boon effect of Hunter's Boon fades from Anubis.

20:48:52.439 Demelza's Hunter's Boon effect of Coordination fades from Anubis.

20:48:52.439 Unknown Entity (No name provided in log)'s Mark of Power effect of Mark of Power fades from Anubis.

20:48:52.439 Unknown Entity (No name provided in log)'s Mark of Power effect of Unnatural Might fades from Anubis.

20:48:52.440 Zorn's Shriek effect of Mental Anguish (Any) fades from Anubis.

20:48:52.440 Zorn's Shriek effect of Weakened (Any) fades from Anubis.

20:48:52.440 Anubis loses from Unknown Entity (No name provided in log).

20:48:52.440 Anubis gains Sprint.

20:48:52.450 Unknown Entity (No name provided in log) kills Anubis.

 

 

Death 1

20:55:56.395 Mystified's Static Barrier effect of Static Barrier fades from Anubis.

20:55:56.395 Anubis gains 1 .

20:55:56.395 Zorn's Shriek hits Anubis for 5198 internal damage, causing 5198 threat. (3893 absorbed)

20:55:56.613 Anubis's Crushing Blow effect of Armor Reduced fades from Zorn.

20:55:56.614 Lineart's Resurgence adds effect Reconstruct to Anubis.

20:55:56.614 Lineart's Resurgence adds effect Resurgence to Anubis.

20:55:56.630 Lineart's Resurgence heals Anubis for 853, causing 362 threat.

20:55:56.981 Anubis activates Force Choke.

20:55:56.981 Anubis's Crushed hits Toth for 210 kinetic damage, causing 316 threat.

20:55:57.060 Zorn's Shriek adds effect Mental Anguish (Any) to Anubis.

20:55:57.060 Zorn's Shriek adds effect Weakened (Any) to Anubis.

20:55:57.060 Zorn's Mental Anguish (Any) hits Anubis for 693 internal damage, causing 693 threat.

20:55:58.039 Anubis's Crushed hits Toth for 189 kinetic damage, causing 284 threat.

20:55:58.039 Anubis gains 1 .

20:55:58.536 Lineart's Resurgence effect of Reconstruct fades from Anubis.

20:55:58.536 Demelza's Hunter's Boon effect of Hunter's Boon fades from Anubis.

20:55:58.537 Mystified's Mark of Power effect of Mark of Power fades from Anubis.

20:55:58.537 Mystified's Mark of Power effect of Coordination fades from Anubis.

20:55:58.537 Anubis loses Battle Cry.

20:55:58.537 Demelza's Hunter's Boon effect of Unnatural Might fades from Anubis.

20:55:58.537 Lineart's Resurgence effect of Resurgence fades from Anubis.

20:55:58.538 Zorn's Emboldened effect of Fearful fades from Anubis.

20:55:58.538 Zorn's Shriek effect of Mental Anguish (Any) fades from Anubis.

20:55:58.538 Zorn's Shriek effect of Weakened (Any) fades from Anubis.

20:55:58.538 Anubis loses from Unknown Entity (No name provided in log).

20:55:58.539 Anubis gains Sprint.

20:55:58.550 Toth's Smash hits Anubis for 4647 kinetic damage, causing 4647 threat.

20:55:58.550 Toth kills Anubis.

20:55:59.291 Anubis's Crushed hits Toth for 165 kinetic damage.

20:55:59.291 Anubis gains 1 .

 

anybody else hitting this problem checked with 2 different parser (askmrrobot + torparse) and both show the same unknown ability doing around 30k dmg

 

Ability Flurry (no name)

Damage Taken 31.2% 69995 13.8% 30975

Absorbed 15142 0

Edited May 2, 2012 by shaundibble

To those having issues with this, there is a better strat that totally negates this... Edited May 2, 2012 by Typeslice

What's really stupid about this fight, and particularly the fearful debuff is that it goes completely against what Bioware keeps telling us in regards to how they want operation bosses to work. They talk about how they want the effects to be on the screen, so that you SEE the effect or attack and can judge from that what to do. I can't recall the quotes, but I'm sure I heard several before 1.2 and during the guild summit.

 

The point is, you can't see the fearful debuff as a spell effect and compensate for it. This whole "you gotta stand exactly 29.5 meters away and touch your left hand to your nose while turning counter clock wise just to avoid a debuff that besides a tiny icon you wouldn't know you got hit by..." is just stupid and poor design. It wouldn't be as bad if they didn't tell us that they want to do the exact opposite. How about a big ol circle shows up around Zorn that's 25m wide. Run out or get fearful in X seconds. Simple, visual and you can clearly tell whats going on and if it's actually bugged by being outside it and still getting the debuff.

deleted original post Edited May 2, 2012 by Typeslice

you can see Fearful your body glows/pulsates RED and you can hearing a humming noise. what im getting at is that its the ZORN tank drops dead on the switch/Toth Charge from an unknown dmg ability. 23k HP to 0HP in 1 sec. Tanks can

 

also this is what fearful is and does

 

Emboldened – When Toth leaps to Zorn, anyone within 25m of Zorn will be affected with the Fearful debuff, which causes them to take double damage from Zorn’s abilities. Only the Zorn tank should be hit by this.

 

zorn does not hit that hard the biggest hit from zorn was 5.2k all night fearful or not.

 

what im more getting at is does anyone know what this unknown abilitiy is 1 shotting the tank

20:55:56.395 Mystified's Static Barrier effect of Static Barrier fades from Anubis.

20:55:56.395 Anubis gains 1 .

20:55:56.395 Zorn's Shriek hits Anubis for 5198 internal damage, causing 5198 threat. (3893 absorbed)

20:55:56.613 Anubis's Crushing Blow effect of Armor Reduced fades from Zorn.

 

Did your tank hit Zorn with the fearful debuff? If so, he probably killed him self.

Did your tank hit Zorn with the fearful debuff? If so, he probably killed him self.

 

This. It will show as unknown since it's self inflicted. When we were learning and our DPS killed themselves, it always showed as unknown.

well we figured it out yes you were right with fearful. were going to test to confirm tonight but according to our logs our DPS is 25% to high and were switching every 45 seconds instead on 1min (debuff time length) hence why the new zorn tank has fearful.

 

thanks for your time guys and be careful big PEW PEW is not always good

We tried this for the first time last night on HM and ran into some problems with the Fearful debuff, despite me watching some of the HM vids and reading all of the information I could find. For the record, I don’t think this is “bugged”. I’m sure it’s our positioning, but not sure if it’s the tank positions, the boss positions, the ranged group, or any combination of all of them. The rest of the fight seems fine – just the Fearful debuff is throwing us off.

 

I understand that the Fearful debuff is a 25m radius from where Toth lands, not where Zorn is positioned. Still, we’re getting the debuff on the ranged group even though they are 28-35m away from Zorn (2 snipers), and Toth is positioned so that when he leaps he shouldn’t be any closer to the ranged group than Zorn is.

 

I’m hoping someone who’s downed this could answer a couple of questions:

1) Where do you tank the bosses? We have Zorn about half-way down the wall on the left, and Toth over by the cave entrance. This way, when Toth leaps, he’s no closer to the ranged group than Zorn is.

2) Which direction is Zorn facing? We’ve had him towards the wall, but with the tank slightly towards the ranged group so the healer can heal him and still stay > 25m from Zorn. I worry that this might be the problem, if there is any sort of directional component to getting the Fearful debuff (as some have speculated).

3) Where does your ranged group stand? Ours is right on the corner where it opens up on the left side, and always >28m away from Zorn

 

Thanks much for the help

For having dpser's get fearful:

It is quite simple. Range is only a minor factor. Facing is not. If you are behind Zorn and Toth leaps in perpendicular to the line between you and Zorn then Toth and Zorn will both be facing away from you = no fearful. To simplify further you can generalise it to a 180degree arc in front of Zorn.

 

The problem we've been having is that the fearful and tank switch seems to be based on a hp percentage whilst the fearful debuff is based on a timer. So if you do enough dps to cause a switch before the fearful debuff from the last switch has expired, then your tank gets insta-gibbed by Zorn when they try to switch.

 

Edit: My personal favourite is when your dps is so high on Toth that whilst he's berserk you push him to a tank switch before Zorn has targetted anyone with a rock to knock him out of the berserk.

 

No bugs persay, just bad design.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Demelsa

I've heard so many conflicting reports as to the Fearful debuff. I've heard the following statements:

1) Zorn's fearful debuff is actually applied right at Toth's leap, not when Toth lands

2) Zorn's fearful has a frontal cone so that even if you're ~28 meters away from Zorn and he's facing somewhat towards the ranged dps, they can get it

3) The range of the "25 meters radius" is from where Toth lands, not from where Zorn is. So if a ranged dps'er is 28m away, but Toth lands and he's 24m away from the dps'er, they'll get the debuff.

 

I'm just trying to wrap my head around it. It's not that big of an issue as we'll have the couple ranged who get it to switch, but it's annoying that we'll tell our range to follow certain guidelines and they'll still get it.

 

Btw, this is on 16m HM. We're wondering if maybe in 16m the mechanic is "Anyone within 25m, and will apply it to X # of people closest to the boss as well".

 

Any ideas?

My raid is having a slightly different, yet similar, problem. Whilst our DPS is not getting the Fearful debuff, it seems the two bosses are swapping at a rate that prevents the fearful debuff from going off of the first tank. This is obviously resulting in either tanks having to tank simply by taunts and eating a larger portion of damage, thus draining our healers too quickly, or the tanks going down in a blaze of fearful glory. The problem I do see with this is that even if it is an over DPS issue we still have not downed the two beasts before hitting the hard enrage timer. (Though we did down one and leave the other at at 3% a few times). So I'm now stuck in a conundrum. Do we Throttle so that the debuff goes away or do we try to out heal the damage?

After some carefull meassurings we observed that:

 

Fearful emanates from the tank in Zorn at the moment Toth initiates the jump (The difference is really 1 second animation... So take it with a pinch of salt). The important info is that it emanates from Zorn's tank not Zorn itself nor the spot were Toth lands... That's why ppl developed the "cone theory", obviously, if you have the tank between Zorn and you (which is basically equal to "Zorn facing you" scenario) and you are meassuring your distance to Zorn... You are eating a few meters (Even more if your tank is at max melee range from Zorn).

 

EDIT: This is 8men HM "data".

Edited May 7, 2012 by ragamer

well we figured it out yes you were right with fearful. were going to test to confirm tonight but according to our logs our DPS is 25% to high and were switching every 45 seconds instead on 1min (debuff time length) hence why the new zorn tank has fearful.

 

thanks for your time guys and be careful big PEW PEW is not always good

 

Yeah, we've been running into this in 16-man Hard Mode. You have to stop DPS on the rock phase in order to wait for the Berserk to get removed, so it's not a problem then. On the Ground Shatter phase, though, if your DPS is high you can push too fast and the tank on Toth will still have Fearful when it's time to pick up Zorn.

 

Your options are to either:

(1) Stop DPS and delay the push (eww)

(2) Have your tank use a CD if the overlap time is pretty small (e.g., a shadow tank's Resilience will protect him completely for maybe 5 seconds).

(3) Just use 3 tanks.

 

We've decided in 16-man HM at least to just bring 3 tanks. It slows our DPS a bit to do so, and it lets us rotate a tank in who doesn't have Fearful without having to stop DPS.

 

On 8-man HM I imagine you could do the same thing using a "DPS tank" on Toth.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Kihra

Looks like Fearful was bugged according to the 5/8 patch notes. We've never had any issues with it, but I guess something was up with it after all. Edited May 8, 2012 by Kihra

"Zorn's "Fearful" debuff is now correctly restricted to 30 meters"

 

Yeah, L2P issue my ***.

Either it was a server wide bug only for specific people, or some strategies were just not handling it correctly and causing a bug. Either way, the second easiest fight in the instance was "fixed", so now you can move on to tanks, which has way more bugs you have to strategize around.