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@David Hunt: rethink 50k augment costs in 1.3


Augustine

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background:

I have played this game since release, while I am not entirely happy with many of the decisions to date, I do not have an axe to grind, and this isn't my first MMO rodeo. I have been playing MMO's since 1994 and have always been a dedicated crafter. I also get that sometimes changes are made that retrospectively impact players who assumed development planning was static and linear. That being said I am one of the BM's that got screwed because I pulled my PVP armor mods out and put them into a gear set I liked (Pilot Suit) at a cost of in excess of 1m+ credits (min/maxing between different sets) only to find that post 1.2 I need to spend in excess of 800k to reinsert my mods for little or no marginal benefit. As a consequence I have logged into my Sage exactly 3 times since 1.2 only to log out depressed thinking about the credit sink. Not a big deal I have an alt I leveled and am happily enjoying in PVP and crafting with, we have 8 slots after all.

 

Thats we can level another toon, that there is a time and credit sink involved in reaching a certain power level differential, and that sometimes we need to deal with adjustments during the development cycle as players is NOT the barrier to entry or the issue.

 

The issues from a dedicated crafter players perspective are thus:

1) We were given mis-information that all orange gear would be craft-able- And we stuck by you.

2) We were not able to RE crafted items for 1+ month until you could patch and fix this code - And we stuck by you

3) We've been told repeatedly that crafting end game would be viable - And we have stuck by you

4) Lets be frank: Server populations are down, this impacts the player based economy, you recall the need for demand in a supply and demand economy I'm sure from econ 101. We were promised new schematics we got PVP gear schematics (that took care of #1 above I guess....) - Given low pops, no demand, and no new schematics, we still stuck by you

5) We were told that set bonuses would transfer, and they do "only for post 1.2 gear" which resulted in quite a few people with modded gear being screwed - And we stuck by you

 

I frankly don't care what your metrics are telling you. I'm sure there are players with 2m+ credits, there always are in every game. My point is that given the above issues another credit sink of 50k when it already costs 105k to re-mod a crit augmented piece of gear (555k total) plus the costs associated with 5-6 augments (I can craft my own fortunately) for another 500k (@ approx 100k per augment) puts the barrier to entry at the BM tier around 1m+ credits plus the time sink.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but you would like to add another 250k cost on to this via augment slot tables?

 

So you'd like level 50 players to fork over 1.3m credits for top tier BM gear (plus whatever costs associated with upgrading to WH gear), assuming they can make their own, which most can't.

 

I'm not a casual, but by now most of my server is, and my guild is long gone (preferring to wait for GW2 rather than log in to SWTOR) so how is this fair to them? How is a high cost barrier to entry fair to crafters in that it does nothing but stifle demand? Why should we stick by you again? (because honestly it's starting to feel like a one way relationship here).

 

Please go back to the whiteboard run this 50k credit metric against population metrics (I'd throw out the outliers) vs. average credits. It's just to high, 36k is hard enough, 50k....sigh just wrong given the current circumstances.

 

Please rethink this

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I am confused, if you paid all that money to move your stuff over to the outfit you wanted, why do you need to move it again?

 

Considering the average orange on my server costs around 1k and the average augmented orange costs around 80k, this change is a 30k discount for people, depending on how much augment kits end up going for. Considering they are much easier to make than a critted orange I bet they'll end up going for cheap, so the new system drops the price for augments by almost half. I have no clue what the issue is.

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I'll use your server's figures and overall game figures for this. Level six House Mecetti's Losses will give 5 Upari Crystals on the average for 1485 credits so let's round to 300 credits per crystal. The cost is about the same for the fragments. In any event we now have, assuming Bioware lets us use the lowest material requirements, 20 crystals, 20 fragments and 20 Cortosis Substrates at 400 each if they're bought through the crew skills vendor. That puts the bare minimum cost at 20,000 credits for the synthweaver to make. If anyone charges less than 20,000 credits they are losing money on each transaction. However, I'm assuming they're doing this to make a profit. The only way this ends up being cheaper on your server is if the person selling them is fine taking the time to craft 10 items, reverse engineer them, craft the augmentation kit and put it up on the auction house for less than 10,000 credits profit for all that time.

 

If Bioware doesn't allow belts but instead makes it so chestpieces or something similar is used then you're looking at 100 crystals and fragments and 20 substrates if I remember correctly. That puts the bare minimum cost at 38,000 credits assuming no profit by the seller. Of course the seller will want a profit so he or she will charge more.

 

This is also assuming that level six crafting materials have no market on the Galactic Trade Market. If someone can get more than 300 credits per crystal by selling them on the Trade Market then they would be better off selling them on the Trade Market. Doing this would raise the prices of augmentation kits as people learn they can make more money selling the materials. If someone can sell the crystals and fragments for 500 each then the only way augmentation kits become viable is if the bare minimum cost is, at if belts and low material intensive items can be used, 28,000 plus mark up or if other items have to be used 58,000 plus mark up. You then need to also spend 50,000 to implement the kit. You also now, since there will be almost no demand for lower level materials, cannot sell them to make the credits. You will instead have to sell level six materials to make the credits to buy them unless you want to spend your credits from dailies, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong; I like the augmentation kit idea as it allows for greater customization. I don't believe it'll make anything cheaper as how it's currently proposed it will make for a weaker economy and is more of a credit sink than anything else. Especially as the augmentation table costs take the money completely out of the economy instead of giving it to another player that might be the goal though.

Edited by Chalpy
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1. They already said the price for pulling out mods is going to go WAY down.

 

I frankly don't care what your metrics are telling you. I'm sure there are players with 2m+ credits, there always are in every game. My point is that given the above issues another credit sink of 50k when it already costs 105k to re-mod a crit augmented piece of gear (555k total) plus the costs associated with 5-6 augments (I can craft my own fortunately) for another 500k (@ approx 100k per augment) puts the barrier to entry at the BM tier around 1m+ credits plus the time sink.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but you would like to add another 250k cost on to this via augment slot tables?

 

2. You don't need to spend that 105k to re-mod a crit augmented piece of gear. You can just spend that 50k to slap an augment slots into existing gear. You don't need critted gear (modding it or not) at all, unless you really like the look.

 

3. 100k per for an augment your crafting yourself? You must have a lot of people with a lot of money on your server willing to spend a boatload on mats, or some seriously greedy slicers fixing prices. Grade 6 purple augment mats are usually around 25k for 4 on my server, which would place the mat cost for the augments a tiny bit over that.

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The 50k price on adding augment slots is nothing more than a price ceiling on augmented crafted gear. Right now a chest with an aug slot is 80K on my server. Paying 50k to add that slot to the orange piece I already have saves me 30k, plus the cost of moving my mods. So after the aug tables get added, the most a crafter will be able to charge for a critted orange is roughly 50K. Which is a fair price given the cost of mats and the crit rate that currently happens.

 

I'm looking forward to this, because I'm using social gear, that can't be crafted- so aug slots are impossible for a lot of my gear.

 

Between Ilum, Belsavis, & Correlia you accumulate over 350k in credits and gear in under 4 hours of play. Just working up the comms for 1 implant you'll have over a million. Where's the problem?

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Between Ilum, Belsavis, & Correlia you accumulate over 350k in credits and gear in under 4 hours of play. Just working up the comms for 1 implant you'll have over a million. Where's the problem?

 

this. This morning I made about 500k just by running around BH and killing elites, each drops like 1-3k creds and always drops some stuff you can sell for 500-8k creds. Took me like 1.2 hour not more.

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I'll use your server's figures and overall game figures for this. Level six House Mecetti's Losses will give 5 Upari Crystals on the average for 1485 credits so let's round to 300 credits per crystal. The cost is about the same for the fragments. In any event we now have, assuming Bioware lets us use .

 

 

or you could, you know, go and get them for free from planets..... /facepalm

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or you could, you know, go and get them for free from planets..... /facepalm

 

Or you could, you know, run dailies, get 4 to 5 times the amount of credits in returns for the time spent than you would save from taking the time to get them for free from planets and then buy them on the trade network, do gathering missions, save yourself time if you have a limited amount of time to play, and sell the items for enough to make a profit instead.../ facepalm

Edited by Chalpy
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Or you could, you know, run dailies, get 4 to 5 times the amount of credits in returns for the time spent than you would save from taking the time to get them for free from planets and then buy them on the trade network, do gathering missions, save yourself time if you have a limited amount of time to play, and sell the items for enough to make a profit instead.../ facepalm

 

The misconception that just because a person gathers their own materials it's free is a very rookie mistake. Your time should always have a value to it; account for that value in the retail price of the finished product. I see this mistake made in RL as well.

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The misconception that just because a person gathers their own materials it's free is a very rookie mistake. Your time should always have a value to it; account for that value in the retail price of the finished product. I see this mistake made in RL as well.

 

Exactly. It doesn't matter where you got something, if you picked it up for "free" or if you over-paid on the GTN; the actual value of an item is the current market rate.

 

I'm not sure why people are OK with BioWare's desire to put huge financial roadblocks on armor switching, other than "I don't intend to do it often, so it doesn't really affect me". Personally, I think that's a pretty lame and short-sighted philosophy. I know that I would love the ability to switch armor often. Why BioWare is against that, I do not know, but it's just another negative in my book. I have nearly all Synth and Armormech patterns and my main has about two dozen orange armor pieces in storage. Not being able to change looks without a huge penalty is annoying to me.

 

Also, I'm a bit confused on something. Why are people responding that the cost will be a savings because "50k is less than augmented armor sells for now"? Isn't the 50k simply the table fee, which does not count the price of the augment kit (which we don't know) or of the piece of armor itself (which will almost certain rise)? It seems quite possible that on many servers, getting an augmented piece of gear will end up costing MORE. Never mind that if you're an armor crafter you'll have to shell out money upfront rather than simply pay with materials.

 

I really don't get it. It seems to me like they're trying to turn an incentive into a negative. Letting people change their appearance for a nominal fee could only be a positive thing on all fronts. Instead, most will simply stick with what they have, even if they find something they like better. I just don't see the value in having some players feel regretful without reason.

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Exactly. It doesn't matter where you got something, if you picked it up for "free" or if you over-paid on the GTN; the actual value of an item is the current market rate.

 

I'm not sure why people are OK with BioWare's desire to put huge financial roadblocks on armor switching, other than "I don't intend to do it often, so it doesn't really affect me". Personally, I think that's a pretty lame and short-sighted philosophy. I know that I would love the ability to switch armor often. Why BioWare is against that, I do not know, but it's just another negative in my book. I have nearly all Synth and Armormech patterns and my main has about two dozen orange armor pieces in storage. Not being able to change looks without a huge penalty is annoying to me.

 

Also, I'm a bit confused on something. Why are people responding that the cost will be a savings because "50k is less than augmented armor sells for now"? Isn't the 50k simply the table fee, which does not count the price of the augment kit (which we don't know) or of the piece of armor itself (which will almost certain rise)? It seems quite possible that on many servers, getting an augmented piece of gear will end up costing MORE. Never mind that if you're an armor crafter you'll have to shell out money upfront rather than simply pay with materials.

 

I really don't get it. It seems to me like they're trying to turn an incentive into a negative. Letting people change their appearance for a nominal fee could only be a positive thing on all fronts. Instead, most will simply stick with what they have, even if they find something they like better. I just don't see the value in having some players feel regretful without reason.

 

Nah, it's just that we realize that credit sinks are necessary for the game to function or inflation happens. If level 50s are crying about the game sucking all their cash then they must be doing something right. Usually people are level cap sit on stacks of cash meaning even level 10 stuff is priced the same as level 50. Which is somewhat true now, but at least it's affordable to even people with level 20 characters. If there were no money sinks in the game everything would cost crazy amounts on the GTN and anyone without characters making 7k a quest wouldn't even have a reason to bother looking.

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Nah, it's just that we realize that credit sinks are necessary for the game to function or inflation happens. If level 50s are crying about the game sucking all their cash then they must be doing something right. Usually people are level cap sit on stacks of cash meaning even level 10 stuff is priced the same as level 50. Which is somewhat true now, but at least it's affordable to even people with level 20 characters. If there were no money sinks in the game everything would cost crazy amounts on the GTN and anyone without characters making 7k a quest wouldn't even have a reason to bother looking.

 

Inflation? Might happen? Our servers must be radically different. Right now, on my server, grade 1 materials sell for almost as much as grade 6. Inflation has already happened. Why? Why is the economy so inflated? Because you can do daily quests, earn hundreds of thousands of credits, and at the same time earn commissions you can exchange for gear INSTEAD of buying it.

 

What we're talking about now isn't a credit sink, but rather a punishment for those who like switching their gear around. A credit sink would be something that affected all players, that is generally unavoidable, such as speeder fees or repair costs. Credit sinks shouldn't single players out. Buying the armor, buying the augment, buying the augment kit, those costs are enough by themselves. There is no need to throw a reoccurring barrier behind that. It's a punishment, that's all it is.

 

Seriously, the idea that an economy bloated by daily quests is actually going to see any level of deflation because players who like variety in what their character wear have an extra tax ...

 

There are enough reasons to quit this game. BioWare not wanting people to change the appearance of their armor is not going to help. It's just another reason to be unsatisfied and annoyed. It won't be a credit sink, because most players will just decide not to do it, and instead simply settle for being mildly unhappy.

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I have 7.5 million credits and have not been cash strapped since shortly after I leveled my first level 50. If you are cash strapped in this game you are going something wrong. It is very possible to minimize your required investment in the credit sinks in this game.
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Inflation is rampant in SWTOR, because the levelling speed is so high. There were a great many L50's a month after launch, and their earning capacity is high, so they've been generating credits at an amazing rate. No wonder there are such heavy credit sinks at "end-game".

 

I only started SWTOR about 2 months ago, and I could clearly see the effects of inflation, just by looking at the pricing of items on the GTN. When L10-16 crafting resources are selling for 200 to 300 credits EACH, it's obvious that the seller is targeting L50 characters with big wallets who want to skill-up their alts. And those resources get sold at that price, I know this from personal experience.

 

Which brand new player can afford a L11 armour piece with an augment slot, when they are often priced anywhere from 50K to 150K (server dependent) ? Those will be bought for alts only. So the GTN prices for crafted gear and resources are already set for characters who can "easily" earn 200-300K a day from their daily missions. It's inevitable, goods are priced according to what the market can bear, and the market in SWTOR can bear quite a lot, it seems.

 

The game metrics will confirm this situation, and hence the devs continually look for ways to drain the "credit lake" being created by the average L50 player. If you are not an "average L50", and happen to be on the left side of the bell-curve, you will feel pain...

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Inflation is rampant in SWTOR, because the levelling speed is so high. There were a great many L50's a month after launch, and their earning capacity is high, so they've been generating credits at an amazing rate. No wonder there are such heavy credit sinks at "end-game".

 

I only started SWTOR about 2 months ago, and I could clearly see the effects of inflation, just by looking at the pricing of items on the GTN. When L10-16 crafting resources are selling for 200 to 300 credits EACH, it's obvious that the seller is targeting L50 characters with big wallets who want to skill-up their alts. And those resources get sold at that price, I know this from personal experience.

 

Which brand new player can afford a L11 armour piece with an augment slot, when they are often priced anywhere from 50K to 150K (server dependent) ? Those will be bought for alts only. So the GTN prices for crafted gear and resources are already set for characters who can "easily" earn 200-300K a day from their daily missions. It's inevitable, goods are priced according to what the market can bear, and the market in SWTOR can bear quite a lot, it seems.

 

The game metrics will confirm this situation, and hence the devs continually look for ways to drain the "credit lake" being created by the average L50 player. If you are not an "average L50", and happen to be on the left side of the bell-curve, you will feel pain...

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Inflation is rampant in SWTOR, because the levelling speed is so high. There were a great many L50's a month after launch, and their earning capacity is high, so they've been generating credits at an amazing rate. No wonder there are such heavy credit sinks at "end-game".

 

I only started SWTOR about 2 months ago, and I could clearly see the effects of inflation, just by looking at the pricing of items on the GTN. When L10-16 crafting resources are selling for 200 to 300 credits EACH, it's obvious that the seller is targeting L50 characters with big wallets who want to skill-up their alts. And those resources get sold at that price, I know this from personal experience.

 

Which brand new player can afford a L11 armour piece with an augment slot, when they are often priced anywhere from 50K to 150K (server dependent) ? Those will be bought for alts only. So the GTN prices for crafted gear and resources are already set for characters who can "easily" earn 200-300K a day from their daily missions. It's inevitable, goods are priced according to what the market can bear, and the market in SWTOR can bear quite a lot, it seems.

 

The game metrics will confirm this situation, and hence the devs continually look for ways to drain the "credit lake" being created by the average L50 player. If you are not an "average L50", and happen to be on the left side of the bell-curve, you will feel pain...

 

i don't think you really understand how the market is working right now. i'm not saying there isn't inflation (if there is it is very little tho) but you say you see low level gear with an augment slot that no level 15 could possibly afford this gear is not aimed at level 15s its aimed at anyone including level 50s who wants customizable gear with an augment slot.

 

a level 50 could pick up a level 20 orange chest plate with an augment slot for 50k and put in the appropriate level mods to make it a level 50 piece of gear. this is why you are seeing this gear at such a high price, not inflation. and this also explains why you see low level mats at high prices, every1 has been buying them up to make the low level orange gear to sell at a high profit margin.

 

i don't think this is working exactly as intended, and i believe in 1.3 there will be measures to stop this. simply by putting a level cap on the type of augment you can put in gear, will mean you need a 49+ piece of gear to put an endgame augment in, so these low level gear and mats will return to the proper level, as they will be useless to level 50s

 

this game has huge money sinks, legacy stuff, the cost of moving mods, the price of repairs, before 1.2 there was the speeders and crystals and god knows what else i have missed, i'm no expert but i would imagine inflation is pretty much under control, and what you see on the GTN is an unrelated anomaly

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I only started SWTOR about 2 months ago, and I could clearly see the effects of inflation, just by looking at the pricing of items on the GTN. When L10-16 crafting resources are selling for 200 to 300 credits EACH, it's obvious that the seller is targeting L50 characters with big wallets who want to skill-up their alts. And those resources get sold at that price, I know this from personal experience.

 

This is entirely true. However at about level 20 (or when you can afford to keep 2 companions running around) gather mats and sell them in 10 bulks. Reduce the prices to reasonable levels and watch supply/demand make you richer and drop the prices for a few days. The really hard core GTN watchers will snatch them up to resell, but if they keep buying your stuff that's guaranteed profit and they're over-flooding the market, reducing value as a whole because they can't ALWAYS be there.

 

I do this on my armstech. Some idiot keeps trying to sell the level 20 customized assault cannon for 50k. I undercut them to 15k (I think that's reasonable) and watch as their auctions run out. When they switch to another over-priced custom weapon I undercut that one too. Why do I do this? Because overcharging is crap and I can help fix it.

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i don't think you really understand how the market is working right now. i'm not saying there isn't inflation (if there is it is very little tho) but you say you see low level gear with an augment slot that no level 15 could possibly afford this gear is not aimed at level 15s its aimed at anyone including level 50s who wants customizable gear with an augment slot.

 

a level 50 could pick up a level 20 orange chest plate with an augment slot for 50k and put in the appropriate level mods to make it a level 50 piece of gear. this is why you are seeing this gear at such a high price, not inflation. and this also explains why you see low level mats at high prices, every1 has been buying them up to make the low level orange gear to sell at a high profit margin.

 

i don't think this is working exactly as intended, and i believe in 1.3 there will be measures to stop this. simply by putting a level cap on the type of augment you can put in gear, will mean you need a 49+ piece of gear to put an endgame augment in, so these low level gear and mats will return to the proper level, as they will be useless to level 50s

 

this game has huge money sinks, legacy stuff, the cost of moving mods, the price of repairs, before 1.2 there was the speeders and crystals and god knows what else i have missed, i'm no expert but i would imagine inflation is pretty much under control, and what you see on the GTN is an unrelated anomaly

 

You honestly think that the current prices on the GTN are a "temporary phenomenon" that will magically disappear once 1.3 hits ? Not a chance :D

 

I wasn't just talking about resources, on my server everything in the lower tiers is very expensive. A new character cannot afford to buy that gear, but the alt of a L50 most certainly can. And this game is oriented toward making alts, so that situation will not change. It happens in all themepark MMO's that I've played, so it's not a fault of SWTOR. It simply happened here much quicker due to the high leveling speed.

 

As I said before, the high prices of "endgame" perks reflects the fact that the "average" player has a lot of cash. Those huge credit sinks are not there to restrict "endgame features" to the top 5% of players, they are there to drain off surplus funds from the average player.

 

If your L50 has 10M credits and nothing to spend it on, then you'll not think twice about paying 30K for a L15 blue bracer for your new alt. It's pennies to that L50. But that price would be a joke to a brand new player who is lucky to have that amount of cash in TOTAL. It's the big L50 wallets that drive up the prices on the GTN for everything, because those big wallets are funding alts that are leveling up.

 

Inflation is a fact of life in the majority of MMO's, and SWTOR is no exception. At least in SWTOR, it's possible to advance quite easily without having to buy from other players. Quest rewards and FP drops keep a new player well geared. They just can't afford the "shinies", but that's optional. So the inflation doesn't cripple the game.

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@the post about severely undercutting

 

Or you could look at it as you're undercutting to the point where you're spending your time doing things for close to free for other players. A custom built assault cannon will take on the average 40 bronzium, 30 plastoid, 20 conductive flux, and 30 plastifiber. At an abundant mission you can get 8-9 of each scavenging material and I think 4-6 or so with investigation for each mission so you're looking at 5 missions for the bronzium, 4 for the plastoid, and lets' say 6 for the plastifiber. With that many missions you're looking at 15 to 30 minutes where you're sending out companions every couple minutes to do something after the initial four minutes peace when you start; we'll say in the time the other seller spends waiting he buys the conductive flux so I won't even include that time as he or she can't do very much else but craft anyway. For myself for the time part alone I wouldn't even consider making the product for less than 50,000 credits profit. The materials can be bought instead but if they're bought the only way there is any return at all is if the materials are selling for less than 139.5 credits per piece on the average (15,000 - trade network fees of 6%- the costs for the conductive flux). On top of that if you can sell the materials for as low as 250 credits each that's an additional 25,000 for the bronzium, plastoid, and plastifiber; if these materials sell for as low as 150 credits each that's still 15,000 credits which is equal to your selling price just for the materials and not including the time investment. Then you also have the six percent trade network fees. Personally, I'd rather make the elegant modified assault cannon as the materials are a lot more but the time investment is a lot less so I can do other things besides craft while I'm making them.

 

If your satisfaction in-game comes from doing things for other random players that's fine; I'd appreciate it just like I'd appreciate it if someone decided that instead of taking the credits for their dailies they'd rather hand them over to me instead. However, I wouldn't call the other seller an idiot if he or she believes that after crafting an item it'd be nice if a return was received that was at least equal to the money equal to what they could have earned by playing other aspects of the game besides crafting for other players. For myself, I'd just stop making them if somebody did that to me, sell something else including materials and all that means is that there's less supply on the market and less chances other players can buy something when they want to until prices go back up again.

Edited by Chalpy
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You honestly think that the current prices on the GTN are a "temporary phenomenon" that will magically disappear once 1.3 hits ? Not a chance :D

 

I wasn't just talking about resources, on my server everything in the lower tiers is very expensive. A new character cannot afford to buy that gear, but the alt of a L50 most certainly can. And this game is oriented toward making alts, so that situation will not change. It happens in all themepark MMO's that I've played, so it's not a fault of SWTOR. It simply happened here much quicker due to the high leveling speed.

 

As I said before, the high prices of "endgame" perks reflects the fact that the "average" player has a lot of cash. Those huge credit sinks are not there to restrict "endgame features" to the top 5% of players, they are there to drain off surplus funds from the average player.

 

If your L50 has 10M credits and nothing to spend it on, then you'll not think twice about paying 30K for a L15 blue bracer for your new alt. It's pennies to that L50. But that price would be a joke to a brand new player who is lucky to have that amount of cash in TOTAL. It's the big L50 wallets that drive up the prices on the GTN for everything, because those big wallets are funding alts that are leveling up.

 

Inflation is a fact of life in the majority of MMO's, and SWTOR is no exception. At least in SWTOR, it's possible to advance quite easily without having to buy from other players. Quest rewards and FP drops keep a new player well geared. They just can't afford the "shinies", but that's optional. So the inflation doesn't cripple the game.

 

ROFL, the average level 50 is lucky to have 200k credits, certainly not 10 million.

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@the post about severely undercutting

 

Or you could look at it as you're undercutting to the point where you're spending your time doing things for close to free for other players. A custom built assault cannon will take on the average 40 bronzium, 30 plastoid, 20 conductive flux, and 30 plastifiber. At an abundant mission you can get 8-9 of each scavenging material and I think 4-6 or so with investigation for each mission so you're looking at 5 missions for the bronzium, 4 for the plastoid, and lets' say 6 for the plastifiber. With that many missions you're looking at 15 to 30 minutes where you're sending out companions every couple minutes to do something after the initial four minutes peace when you start; we'll say in the time the other seller spends waiting he buys the conductive flux so I won't even include that time as he or she can't do very much else but craft anyway. For myself for the time part alone I wouldn't even consider making the product for less than 50,000 credits profit. The materials can be bought instead but if they're bought the only way there is any return at all is if the materials are selling for less than 139.5 credits per piece on the average (15,000 - trade network fees of 6%- the costs for the conductive flux). On top of that if you can sell the materials for as low as 250 credits each that's an additional 25,000 for the bronzium, plastoid, and plastifiber; if these materials sell for as low as 150 credits each that's still 15,000 credits which is equal to your selling price just for the materials and not including the time investment. Then you also have the six percent trade network fees. Personally, I'd rather make the elegant modified assault cannon as the materials are a lot more but the time investment is a lot less so I can do other things besides craft while I'm making them.

 

If your satisfaction in-game comes from doing things for other random players that's fine; I'd appreciate it just like I'd appreciate it if someone decided that instead of taking the credits for their dailies they'd rather hand them over to me instead. However, I wouldn't call the other seller an idiot if he or she believes that after crafting an item it'd be nice if a return was received that was at least equal to the money equal to what they could have earned by playing other aspects of the game besides crafting for other players. For myself, I'd just stop making them if somebody did that to me, sell something else including materials and all that means is that there's less supply on the market and less chances other players can buy something when they want to until prices go back up again.

 

Good point. The way materials are gathered through crew skills makes it difficult to pin an exact price tag on how much something cost. On top of that - how many copies had to be made to get the critted version that actually has market value?

 

When it's all said and done, the only way to know for sure how much was really invested into making the final piece almost requires spreadsheeting how many missions it took to get the materials or how much was paid to buy the materials.

 

75k for a crit-crafted weapon is not a bad price. I happily paid 75k x2 for my gunslinger's blasters. In all honesty, the armstech selling those blasters is probably barely breaking even with the system as it is right now.

 

I wouldn't even make aim/cunning augments and list them for less than 70k on the market. It's not worth my time. I'm constantly running slicing missions for tech parts and I'm lucky to get enough purple items back from those missions to make one augment after a night of playing (the missions are over an hour long). This places the opportunity cost for me, keeping 2 to 4 companions out for so long, very high. Sorry, but I'm not selling aim/cunning augments for 20k right now. I'd gauge my investment in the 4 purple augmenters at 10 to 15k alone to acquire them from missions. That's not accounting for the cost of the other materials and the ~45 minute construction time. Now I could pave a hyperspace lane with all the blue augmenters I have. Unfortunately, they are useless.

 

Keep in mind that the system would be more stable if the value of augmented equipment was not tied to a RNG crit. It will probably get better in 1.3 when crafters can just make one item, throw it on the table and augment it if it doesn't crit. This current implementation of crit-crafting is full of fail.

Edited by Raeln
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Inflation? Might happen? Our servers must be radically different. Right now, on my server, grade 1 materials sell for almost as much as grade 6. Inflation has already happened. Why? Why is the economy so inflated? Because you can do daily quests, earn hundreds of thousands of credits, and at the same time earn commissions you can exchange for gear INSTEAD of buying it.

 

I only started SWTOR about 2 months ago, and I could clearly see the effects of inflation, just by looking at the pricing of items on the GTN. When L10-16 crafting resources are selling for 200 to 300 credits EACH, it's obvious that the seller is targeting L50 characters with big wallets who want to skill-up their alts. And those resources get sold at that price, I know this from personal experience.

 

Which brand new player can afford a L11 armour piece with an augment slot, when they are often priced anywhere from 50K to 150K (server dependent) ? Those will be bought for alts only. So the GTN prices for crafted gear and resources are already set for characters who can "easily" earn 200-300K a day from their daily missions. It's inevitable, goods are priced according to what the market can bear, and the market in SWTOR can bear quite a lot, it seems.

 

It's unclear either of those is caused by inflation, but rather that due to the screwup that is augmented orange equipment in 1.2, lvl 10-19 items are cost-effective "BiS" for lvl 50+'s. As such there is massive demand (by people willing/able to pay), and thus prices go up. (which isn't to say I haven't taken advantage of it. I don't know if it's just my server or what, but there has been virtually no competition selling augmented orange equipment. (before the patch, I had assumed competition would be high enough to drive down prices to "near cost"... as it's so rediculously easy to get enough skill to compete) But my characters have all made millions selling the stuff.

 

However I do realize it effectively keeps "at level" characters out of the market.

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What I don't see is Biochem (and maybe Cybertech) going away as essential skills. Now there is nothing you can get from, say, Synthweaving, that you can't simply purchase - 1 time! - with credits. At least presently the Rakata belt and bracers can crit with an extra slot and be BIS, and they are BOP so only available to that profession. (I haven't looked at this since 1.2 to compare to Campaign or Black hole since I haven't had much chance to obtain that gear).

 

The point is you'll still want Biochem for the stims/adrenals/medpack reusables and consumables (so you are not at the whim of the GTN) or Cybertech for analogous reasons for grenades. If you lack cash for something that another profession makes, do a quick round of dailies.

 

I know a lot of people on this forum like crafting and the gtn for its own sake, but I see it as a means to an end. How can I make my toon the most powerful? I think every crafting skill needs an exclusive, well-balanced end-game perk that will make all the skills equally attractive

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@splatterjack

 

ok if you say so, just look at the plans for augments and level caps. this is quite obviously a move to stop low level mats from making endgame gear. also i don't know about your server but on my server its only low level mats that have shot up in price, this is not how inflation works, inflation increases the price of everything. before 1.2 on my server mandalorian iron sold for an average of 10k per unit, after 1.2 the average price is still 10k per unit. true inflation would affect mandalorian iron as much as it would desh.

 

although maybe your right, but there is one way we will get an answer on this, thats simply see what happens after 1.3 hits

Edited by grandmthethird
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ok if you say so, just look at the plans for augments and level caps. this is quite obviously a move to stop low level mats from making endgame gear. also i don't know about your server but on my server its only low level mats that have shot up in price, this is not how inflation works, inflation increases the price of everything. before 1.2 on my server mandalorian iron sold for an average of 10k per unit, after 1.2 the average price is still 10k per unit. true inflation would affect mandalorian iron as much as it would desh.

 

although maybe your right, but there is one way we will get an answer on this, thats simply see what happens after 1.3 hits

 

Low level materials are more expensive because very few players sell them. Most players are running grade 5/6 crew missions - not grade 1/2. This leaves only very fresh alts to be running the low level crew missions and they are scrambling with just 1 or 2 companions to gather enough materials to skill out of it. Besides, in my experience - I've had the most trouble selling low level materials at even the default market price that the UI lists it at.

 

It may be the "300 credits" for that level 1 material might be what the tool is listing them at by default.

 

After that is said, gathering lower level armoring/mods/barrels and enhancements are extremely easy. Just use the planet commendations. Run a heroic or two (or buy from the legacy vendor) to get the moddables, always take the planet commendation awards and there will be almost no need to purchase any low leveling crafting items while leveling. Just buy them from the planetary commendation mod vendor. With fully upgraded mods, the character will always be a level or two overpowered for the planet.

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