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The Vanguard Special: A Tactics Guide


TheOpf

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I am a level 50 that was specced "Ironfist" before the nerf. I re-specced to Tactics because of what changes they did to SS (Not a tankassin no more D:< ). I'm wearing WH Combat Tech cause its the only option I had. My set is prioritizing Surge>Power>Crit, my question is how would a Tactrics Vanguard fit in an 8 man rated team? I haven't tried doing rated in Tactics yet. Opinions from other Tactics Vanguards? Edited by Gulcasa
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I am a level 50 that was specced "Ironfist" before the nerf. I re-specced to Tactics because of what changes they did to SS (Not a tankassin no more D:< ). I'm wearing WH Combat Tech cause its the only option I had. My set is prioritizing Surge>Power>Crit, my question is how would a Tactrics Vanguard fit in an 8 man rated team? I haven't tried doing rated in Tactics yet. Opinions from other Tactics Vanguards?

 

I'm in the same boat...I had 4pc Combat Tech set, and about 50/50 elim/super for the non-set items. Worked great with Iron Fist and now I'm "broken". With the respec that came with the 1.3 patch I speced into Assault(dmg). While I can kill some things pretty quickly, the ammo management is a beech, and I can (and do) get burned down 2x as quick as I can dish it out. I had read "Oh no don't go tactics if you want to do damage..." - I'm interested to hear what others say to your questions too.

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Updated information. How Is everyone enjoying the new slow?

 

A 70% slow in a wide cone that deals roughly 4,000+ to 5,500+ (Crits) in elemental damage? Best thing that ever happened to Tactics. Pop "Hold the line" with PG in 5 stacks and BOOM, drowzy scrubs keep sleeping on me. :D

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Updated information. How Is everyone enjoying the new slow?

 

Its good, but I prefer the old damage bug ;)

 

in rated, as soon as a tactic spec guys attempt to use pulse they just stunned :mad: (which wastes your 5-stack)

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Its good, but I prefer the old damage bug ;)

 

in rated, as soon as a tactic spec guys attempt to use pulse they just stunned :mad: (which wastes your 5-stack)

 

That is true, but like I told the Tactics VG on my team. Any stun used during your pc is a stun not used on our healer or during a cap. And it's a stun not used on our sniper or sentinel - Sniper not stunned is a machine of destruction. I prefer them stunning my Tactics guy who is the only guy who gets hurt less if he is stunned.

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we we're already behind the curve, but with other classes getting buffed and changes to equipment (and scaling), i think we should all support this topic:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4779305

 

That thread is based on a misunderstanding of the AP tree. I posted my thoughts in it. Crying for more burst underlines how poorly played AP/Tactics is. People play AP like it's Pyro, and it has nothing to do with Pyro. It's a completely unique tree.

Edited by TheOpf
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I'm another lost vanguard in PvP. Been away, and now I've discovered that my Yojack and Ironfist builds don't work so well for me anymore. Is there an area that discusses options for gear? What I have is based on my old spec...ugh.
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I'm another lost vanguard in PvP. Been away, and now I've discovered that my Yojack and Ironfist builds don't work so well for me anymore. Is there an area that discusses options for gear? What I have is based on my old spec...ugh.

 

What gear do you currently have? If you have combat tech than Assault or Tacitcs works.

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I have mostly combat tech with some eliminator. I have altered the mods, taking away some accuracy for example. I'm not sure how best to configure at the moment (what my stats should look like in this spec). I had optimized everything to my old spec and play style.
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I have mostly combat tech with some eliminator. I have altered the mods, taking away some accuracy for example. I'm not sure how best to configure at the moment (what my stats should look like in this spec). I had optimized everything to my old spec and play style.

 

If you are mainly combat/eliminator than your switch to either dps tree should be easily accomplished. You can go to Norse for a bit more survival or full ap for a bit more damage.

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If you are mainly combat/eliminator than your switch to either dps tree should be easily accomplished. You can go to Norse for a bit more survival or full ap for a bit more damage.

 

Hey TheOpf.

 

I was playing norse before you posted the guide, but switched to pyro much prior to 1.2.

 

After 1.3 there is a noticable difference in burst dps of assault spec, and time to kill. Because of that i would like to share with you guys all the results.

 

My current stats are (buffed + rakata stim)

584.4 bonus damage

Crit chance: 32,15%

Accuracy: 91.90%

Surge: 79.39%

Tech Dam 919.4

tech crit: 33.31%

 

Now i had tested my 7/3/31 build and confronted it with 8/31/2 norse. (highest hit vs dummie 50)

 

Flame Pulse: 4508

Ion Pulse: 3087

Stockstrike: 4131

Sticky grenade: 2608

 

And i was just shocked by the amount of burst. With proper amount of power, and battle focus on, its better than the one provided by Assault spec . Spamable Ion pulse for 3k a hit and stockstrike for over 4 is much to be appreciated.

 

Its easy to 1vs1 with this spec, the only problem u might experience is harpoon being on cooldown while you fight ranged dps. I was dueling best (2nd best pyro at my guild) and won 10 times out of 10 duels. Once you start you have more survivability due to 20% dmg reduction while stunned and he just have to stun you down, because you are equal (and i would say better) in burst. What blew me away was total 9120 damage on Pulse cannon to a SINGLE target.

 

I would counter the theory that this is not a good 1v1 spec. That of course depends on a playstyle, AND previous experience and gear, but i tend to think that with high end War Hero remoded armor it's just better in every way.

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Hey TheOpf.

 

I was playing norse before you posted the guide, but switched to pyro much prior to 1.2.

 

After 1.3 there is a noticable difference in burst dps of assault spec, and time to kill. Because of that i would like to share with you guys all the results.

 

My current stats are (buffed + rakata stim)

584.4 bonus damage

Crit chance: 32,15%

Accuracy: 91.90%

Surge: 79.39%

Tech Dam 919.4

tech crit: 33.31%

 

Now i had tested my 7/3/31 build and confronted it with 8/31/2 norse. (highest hit vs dummie 50)

 

Flame Pulse: 4508

Ion Pulse: 3087

Stockstrike: 4131

Sticky grenade: 2608

 

And i was just shocked by the amount of burst. With proper amount of power, and battle focus on, its better than the one provided by Assault spec . Spamable Ion pulse for 3k a hit and stockstrike for over 4 is much to be appreciated.

 

Its easy to 1vs1 with this spec, the only problem u might experience is harpoon being on cooldown while you fight ranged dps. I was dueling best (2nd best pyro at my guild) and won 10 times out of 10 duels. Once you start you have more survivability due to 20% dmg reduction while stunned and he just have to stun you down, because you are equal (and i would say better) in burst. What blew me away was total 9120 damage on Pulse cannon to a SINGLE target.

 

I would counter the theory that this is not a good 1v1 spec. That of course depends on a playstyle, AND previous experience and gear, but i tend to think that with high end War Hero remoded armor it's just better in every way.

 

That has been my experience as well. I generally refrain from the word "Burst" as there is a confusion as to how it's done. The biggest difference between Assault and Tactics is timed delay on TD/RS combo and Plasma Cell. Plasma Cell is amazing. But I digress, When I play my AP PT, I can beat just about any PT out there because Norse is so strong on survival and packs a wallop. The 6 percent reduction on the player you are fighting is better than people give it credit for.

 

Pulse cannon with HTL is freaking amazing. The channeled bit is what bugs people. However you stated and so has several others that when fighting in a wz that 9210 is to each guy hit with it. I once dropped 3 guys who were attacking someone else with PFT (Pulse Cannon) slow plus boost in damage.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Did you drop all the accuracy mods out of your gear at War Hero level? The only difference between Tactics and Assault in ranked is unless you are really good, Assault will always end with higher damage numbers. Plasma cell plus better range = more total damage.

 

It's good to hear of another successful player who sees the vantage. Wait til you face those cursed Sents and players who mitigate all physical damage, and it does nothing to you. Fun stuff!

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That has been my experience as well. I generally refrain from the word "Burst" as there is a confusion as to how it's done. The biggest difference between Assault and Tactics is timed delay on TD/RS combo and Plasma Cell. Plasma Cell is amazing. But I digress, When I play my AP PT, I can beat just about any PT out there because Norse is so strong on survival and packs a wallop. The 6 percent reduction on the player you are fighting is better than people give it credit for.

 

Pulse cannon with HTL is freaking amazing. The channeled bit is what bugs people. However you stated and so has several others that when fighting in a wz that 9210 is to each guy hit with it. I once dropped 3 guys who were attacking someone else with PFT (Pulse Cannon) slow plus boost in damage.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Did you drop all the accuracy mods out of your gear at War Hero level? The only difference between Tactics and Assault in ranked is unless you are really good, Assault will always end with

higher damage numbers. Plasma cell plus better range = more total damage.

 

It's good to hear of another successful player who sees the vantage. Wait til you face those cursed Sents and players who mitigate all physical damage, and it does nothing to you. Fun stuff!

 

Of course mitigation is the reason i am turning to tactics (appart from MV and SG) all attacks are elemental or internal. I am beating top dmg withtactics on my ranked guild premade. We have 1 Pyro and me as for troopers.

 

I did all but one, because i dont have proper enhancement yet (i want crit/surge) now its crit/accuracy.

 

I also need to switch 2 armorings from 58 to 61 (chest and boots), and buy 2nd WH relic of boundless ages (now one is BH). But those are minor changes, and i dont think they will influence the results in any significant way (maximum 8 damage bonus), and 0.7% surge (giving total 80%).

 

Advice: If any of you want to benefit from high spike damage, overcap your surge. I am using 37power/39power mods (lvl 58/61) and mostly 41power+53surge enhancements. Accuracy is not needed, because not a single hit is ranged (in NORSE). Every attack is Tech based, thus its 100% accurate.

 

Advice2: If you are going to be Railshoted, try to be stunned. 20% damage reduction will cripple the railshot badly. Wait for it to happend then break CC and stun enemy just after the laugh. That will break his chain of burst.

 

Today tested my tactics on duel with pyro (almost same stats and knowledge of pyro as mine).

Results were: 5 wins, 2 loses, 1 draw (both died due to dots). Very close games (first 3), then the trick with being stun worked perfectly and i was able to beat the crap out of my friend :D

Edited by Nezyrworks
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I have mostly combat tech with some eliminator. I have altered the mods, taking away some accuracy for example. I'm not sure how best to configure at the moment (what my stats should look like in this spec). I had optimized everything to my old spec and play style.

 

Try to max power/surge > crit mods. Power are better than aim. (i will not explain it but due to diminishing returns its better to be lower on aim before buffs)

 

Try keeping Crit on 25%, and max out power and surge as high as you can. (best and cheapest way to get power mods is to pull them off eliminator gauntlets).

 

Do not exchange battlemaster eliminator power generator as its better in terms of damage than WH one (again expertise will have a very high slope after reaching the curve of 1150=22% bonus dmg)

 

Check my stats above. It might help you abit.

Edited by Nezyrworks
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Try to max power/surge > crit mods. Power are better than aim. (i will not explain it but due to diminishing returns its better to be lower on aim before buffs)

 

Try keeping Crit on 25%, and max out power and surge as high as you can. (best and cheapest way to get power mods is to pull them off eliminator gauntlets).

 

Do not exchange battlemaster eliminator power generator as its better in terms of damage than WH one (again expertise will have a very high slope after reaching the curve of 1150=22% bonus dmg)

 

Check my stats above. It might help you abit.

 

I went Combat Tech with Combat Medic for the extra 3 sec shield. It's a pretty nice boost. PT's get a great crit bonus to all their abilites so you are correct crit is pretty meh for us. Aim > Power > Surge are the three stats you should focus on.

 

I will have to look at the difference between WH and Battlemaster power generators. I wonder why it's better?

Edited by TheOpf
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I went Combat Tech with Combat Medic for the extra 3 sec shield. It's a pretty nice boost. PT's get a great crit bonus to all their abilites so you are correct crit is pretty meh for us. Aim > Power > Surge are the three stats you should focus on.

 

I will have to look at the difference between WH and Battlemaster power generators. I wonder why it's better?

I would sugest droping AIM mods for Power, especialy for PVP. Let me explain why:

 

Each power mod gives you higher damage boost than aim mod (still giving you the slight crit bonus from aim).

Now you have a soft cap on aim 1550, and the hard cap of 1800. With this in mind, you should go for maximum power and decent amount of crit bonus (from aim). Since CRIT from aim is soft caped and hard caped with above degrees, and you benefit more in terms of damage from power high mods (mods with 37/39 power), it is better to bring aim as low as you can before buffing, to get more crit rate per point, and have more damage boost then bringing aim to 1800 and handicapping it. My aim after all buffs and rakata stim is 1820. (extra 8% will be enough to breach 1800) but after 1800 you gain little to none crit % from aim, and aim only gives you 0.2 damage per point while power gives you 0.23 per point.

 

I know it might sound weird, but power "mods" are the BEST ones for every dps.

 

As for Surge, the theory behind it, is that burst damage is the best way to kill, It spikes creating unpredictable to heal amounts of damage. With this in mind, Surge is after (or aside of) power the best source of this unpredictable damage. Since above statement directs you to power mods, i would also suggest taking 39/41 power +51/53 surge enhancements. (this setup was perfect for pyro/assault spec i had played before and after 1.3). With surge of 78-80% and tactics buff to all crit damage by another 30% (fire pulse, stockstrike and ion pulse), you create an uneasy to predict spike chain that can overburst even a pyro (again my biggest hit from fire pulse was 4500 which gives you an idea what you do considering my High impact bolt on fully buffed and geared assault spec never exceeded 4700 after 1.3)

 

As for set bonuses i feel 15% stockstrike bonus is still a king (especially if you can bring crit damage on SS to 4k).

this 15% crit bonus helps to maintain ammo free 4k hits on enemy.

Hope it helps

Edited by Nezyrworks
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Since my "Iron Fisty" character was molested by the nerf bat, I just gave tactics a try 8/31/2, i think it was max damage one listed on the first page. First impressions were tough, man I missed being able to jump around like tree frog. After that initial shock, I had noticed that I was actually able to damage opponents in a meaningful way again. Still experimenting with the build, and there are many options to explore and get used to for sure. Currently i have combat tech war hero armor set. I am still using Battlemaster supercommander rifle and shield as well as BM implants and earpiece. Still got some work to do to get everything war hero. Are any of you that have used this build still using the supercommando shield as the offhand, or are you going combat tech generator? That is the next piece I am going to get so opinions or experiences or observations regarding offhand shield or generator would be appreciated.
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Since my "Iron Fisty" character was molested by the nerf bat, I just gave tactics a try 8/31/2, i think it was max damage one listed on the first page. First impressions were tough, man I missed being able to jump around like tree frog. After that initial shock, I had noticed that I was actually able to damage opponents in a meaningful way again. Still experimenting with the build, and there are many options to explore and get used to for sure. Currently i have combat tech war hero armor set. I am still using Battlemaster supercommander rifle and shield as well as BM implants and earpiece. Still got some work to do to get everything war hero. Are any of you that have used this build still using the supercommando shield as the offhand, or are you going combat tech generator? That is the next piece I am going to get so opinions or experiences or observations regarding offhand shield or generator would be appreciated.

 

Go straight Combat Tech gear. I actually went with 2 piece Combat Medic as it's better for pure survival.

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I just want to correct some of the misinformation your giving

 

in normal circumstances POWER (0.23 dmg) > AIM (0.2 dmg + small crit on DR) however if you put points into 'Steely Resolve' you get a passive 9% buff on AIM which places it above POWER.

 

Please help me with your math here.. .2 x .09 = .018 = .218 in my math. Unless im missing something then even with the Aim buff you come up short as it would be .2 x .14 = .028 = .228 < .23. Steely resolve plus the sage buff = .14 or 14%

 

What am I missing?

Edited by Morath
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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello! I've been a Tactics/AP since launch and want to share some thoughts with y'all;

 

Obviously, you don't want to be at zero heat. If so, you're wasting potential. Any heat that could have been vented, but wasn't, is a loss of dps. If you start off a rotation with Immolate, for example, that's 8 heat. 5 heat will then be vented instantly and normally, then an additional 8 heat assuming you've not gotten any heat in the last 6 seconds. But, after the initial 5 heat vent, you only have 3 heat. So you could have vented 8 heat, but only vented 3. You've just wasted 5 heat. The most optimal rotations start off with two 16 heat cost moves.

 

It's also best to put Retractable blade on a target ASAP, to ensure a Charged Gauntless proc (I play an RS build). Basically, I weave flame burst before the following moves, in this order: RB, Immolate, Rocket punch, Rail Shot (Only if proc. If auto crit did not proc, use Rapid shots), flame thrower.

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