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Group finder changes that will help foster a better community


StrikePrice

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The group finder in it's current form causes social problems. The following features would fix that:

 

1. 75 only queue. Ability to add yourself to both queues (75 only and 74 & under) and take either that pops.

2. Ability to mark "fast run" or "slow run" (slow run = watching cut scenes and not skipping)

3. Ability to see how many locations (1/23 or 23/23 for example) each person has selected.

 

The slow popping problem with a 75 only queue is solved by allowing a toon to queue both and decide when it pops.

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The group finder in it's current form causes social problems. The following features would fix that:

 

1. 75 only queue. Ability to add yourself to both queues (75 only and 74 & under) and take either that pops.

2. Ability to mark "fast run" or "slow run" (slow run = watching cut scenes and not skipping)

3. Ability to see how many locations (1/23 or 23/23 for example) each person has selected.

 

The slow popping problem with a 75 only queue is solved by allowing a toon to queue both and decide when it pops.

 

*Thumbs up*

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I understand the reasoning behind these added options, and in general I agree with them, but there is a big problem with implementing them. It would further separate the population in the group finder queue and potentially lead to massive queue times before a group pops, even longer than they already are sometimes.

 

Sure, you personally could deactivate these filters, but if the majority of players in the group finder queue have them on, you are also affected. If this game had a larger overall population this would be no problem at all.

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1. I don't really see the need for a separate "75" queue (for VM), but since some people seem to get all twisted up about "<75s" in a PUG, it would be OK if they did this.

2. I think that the "slow" queue would take even longer than the MM queue. Very few people actually want to see cutscenes over and over, and I'd bet that most of the people who don't skip the cutscenes either don't know they can press spacebar, or are taking a bio break, or rolling one, or whatever.

However, like #1, I wouldn't care if they did this.

3. Um, why? 🤔

 

#1 and #2 can also be worked around by just forming a group of like-minded players before entering the queue, if you want the GF bonus.

Edited by CommunityDroidEU
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Great questions! Here are my thoughts.

 

1. I don't really see the need for a separate "75" queue (for VM), but since some people seem to get all twisted up about "<75s" in a PUG, it would be OK if they did this.

It's is not that I don't like grouping with < 75. It's that many times, <75 are trying to level, so they want to kill as much as they can. Whereas 75s are usually trying to gear, so they want to skip.

 

2. I think that the "slow" queue would take even longer than the MM queue. Very few people actually want to see cutscenes over and over, and I'd bet that most of the people who don't skip the cutscenes either don't know they can press spacebar, or are taking a bio break, or rolling one, or whatever.

However, like #1, I wouldn't care if they did this.

I agree, but I get into groups that they want to see the cut scenes -- even in like Hammer Station.

 

3. Um, why? 🤔

Because then we know if it's random or not. Generally people 75 will queue 1/23 Hammer Station and people < 75 queue 1/23 KDY.

 

When there is team composition like this ...

75 23/23

45 1/23

75 23/23

75 23/23

(which happens a lot), you are guaranteed to be going to KDY. And what happens then is the group falls apart because people drop.

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Just saying, when I'm levelling I queue random.

 

Of note, the FP choices avaliable to you at level 15 are limited, ergo kdy pops up more often. The final bosses are so atrociously scaled. I want to see 4 devs on 4 level 15 dps specs clear them.

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Because then we know if it's random or not. Generally people 75 will queue 1/23 Hammer Station and people < 75 queue 1/23 KDY.

I simpler thing would just be if the GF would tell you what the FP is before you hit Accept or Decline. Even better, I'd like it to pop up and say something like "A group is available for [insert Flashpoint], would you like to join? ".

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I simpler thing would just be if the GF would tell you what the FP is before you hit Accept or Decline. Even better, I'd like it to pop up and say something like "A group is available for [insert Flashpoint], would you like to join? ".

That would be the best possible solution. Let’s face it, when Nathama or the train one or the chiss one pop, most people drop anyway.

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If you cannot negotiate between 4 people to do bonus, watch cutscenes, etc., or not, then you have bigger problems. You have to talk to people. And if you all can't agree, you have the option to leave, or vote kick the person who is being difficult. You queue for a random encounter and are eligible for the most rewards as a reward for the risk of grouping with players of variable skill and gear levels as well as the risk of not knowing if you will get an easy or hard flashpoint. No, I don't believe group finder should be restructured to allow the kind of manipulation you are proposing. I don't think players should receive 2 extra FP purple gear crates (plus extra frags for role in need) merely by doing speedruns of Hammer Station.
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Which is sad, because they're honestly pretty fun.

It's not that they are not fun. I agree with you. The problem with them is they contain elements that don't work well in a pick up group setting. Nathama for example has a boss fight that has mechanics that are too difficult for a PUG (same with Blood Hunt).

 

Probability of success in PUG:

 

Hammer station: 100% ... I can solo vet mode with my companion

Blood Hunt: 25% (3 out of 4 PUGs that attempt this FP fail to kill Shae)

 

If you cannot negotiate between 4 people to do bonus, watch cutscenes, etc., or not, then you have bigger problems. You have to talk to people. And if you all can't agree, you have the option to leave, or vote kick the person who is being difficult. You queue for a random encounter and are eligible for the most rewards as a reward for the risk of grouping with players of variable skill and gear levels as well as the risk of not knowing if you will get an easy or hard flashpoint. No, I don't believe group finder should be restructured to allow the kind of manipulation you are proposing. I don't think players should receive 2 extra FP purple gear crates (plus extra frags for role in need) merely by doing speedruns of Hammer Station.

Obviously, you no longer play the game.

Edited by StrikePrice
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It's not that they are not fun. I agree with you. The problem with them is they contain elements that don't work well in a pick up group setting. Nathama for example has a boss fight that has mechanics that are too difficult for a PUG (same with Blood Hunt).

 

Probability of success in PUG:

 

Hammer station: 100% ... I can solo vet mode with my companion

Blood Hunt: 25% (3 out of 4 PUGs that attempt this FP fail to kill Shae)

 

Just out of curiosity, have you tried Vet Blood Hunt since 6.0 came out? I was mainly a solo player before 6.0, so I don't have anything to compare the current version to. Based on forum comments I'd read, I was really nervous the first time Blood Hunt came up, but we made it through pretty easily. I've had the same experience a few more times since then, so it wasn't just one great PUG. Either BH has been nerfed or I've had extra-good luck with PUGs--my sample is small enough that either is possible. I've never had Umbara or Nathema come up as a random flashpoint, so I can't comment on those. :)

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Just out of curiosity, have you tried Vet Blood Hunt since 6.0 came out? I was mainly a solo player before 6.0, so I don't have anything to compare the current version to. Based on forum comments I'd read, I was really nervous the first time Blood Hunt came up, but we made it through pretty easily. I've had the same experience a few more times since then, so it wasn't just one great PUG. Either BH has been nerfed or I've had extra-good luck with PUGs--my sample is small enough that either is possible. I've never had Umbara or Nathema come up as a random flashpoint, so I can't comment on those. :)

I've always found that it's Joss and Valk that are the hardest part of Blood Hunt. Shae's not as much of a problem once you're used to the mechanics.

I can't say I've noticed any change since 6.0

Edited by JediQuaker
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Obviously, you no longer play the game.

Paying customer since launch, closed beta account, pal. If you think that everyone in the game is as selfish as you are, then I guess I'm glad I haven't been in a group with you for the master mode flashpoints I try to do each night I can play. I've been pleasantly surprised by my Nathema success rate post 6.0 or even Objective Meridian ... its not like a Hammer Station run, of course. You may have to explain mechanics to players because they spent most of the last expansion and some of this one /quitting everytime they saw the splash screen. But there is not some collective cognitive impairment across the playerbase such that people can't do anything harder than HS. I want the purple boxes, so I take the risk that I may end up with a competent group, or a terribad one, or an easy FP, or a hard one. It's called a tradeoff.

 

Which is a better way of fostering "community"?

1) silently go through group content as fast as possible with nothing but a "tyfg" at the end

2) interact with the other people in your group pleasantly and respectfully, working through challenges or conflicts when they arise

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Which is a better way of fostering "community"?

1) silently go through group content as fast as possible with nothing but a "tyfg" at the end

2) interact with the other people in your group pleasantly and respectfully, working through challenges or conflicts when they arise

One problem with SWTOR is that there is no group voice chat. It may be nice to interact with the group, but for most people, stopping to type out instructions, etc, is way too time consuming. By the time a 1 finger hunt&peck'er types out "I'm new to this flashpoint", half the group is already attacking the second trash mob. 🙂

I know there are some keyboard warriors that seem to be able to type entire paragraphs while playing, but that's not the norm.

 

I often play an FPS that has built-in team voice chat. It's a world of difference when people actually communicate while playing.

 

It would nice if, in SWTOR, at least the group leader could use voice chat to explain tactics or whatever to the rest of the group. However, SWTOR doesn't have built-in voice chat and Discord or other voice chat apps are not universal.

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Just out of curiosity, have you tried Vet Blood Hunt since 6.0 came out? I was mainly a solo player before 6.0, so I don't have anything to compare the current version to. Based on forum comments I'd read, I was really nervous the first time Blood Hunt came up, but we made it through pretty easily. I've had the same experience a few more times since then, so it wasn't just one great PUG. Either BH has been nerfed or I've had extra-good luck with PUGs--my sample is small enough that either is possible. I've never had Umbara or Nathema come up as a random flashpoint, so I can't comment on those. :)

 

Most of the problems come in during the Master Mode version of flashpoints, not the Veteran Mode.

 

I get Blood Hunt fairly frequently; it's relatively rare that we complete the dungeon.

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Which is a better way of fostering "community"?

1) silently go through group content as fast as possible with nothing but a "tyfg" at the end

2) interact with the other people in your group pleasantly and respectfully, working through challenges or conflicts when they arise

If you actually play the game ... which it seems like you don't, you know which of those options happens 99% of the time.

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Hm, not sure what it would help seeing which FPs someone had selected, but the others I could see. What I'd really like is 30-45 seconds until timeout and everyone who accepted can get a new pop, rather than 2 minutes, and give anyone who doesn't accept a short lockout, say 1 minute to start and increasing up to 5 minutes until they can list again. Nothing worse than people who constantly relist and dodge or wait it out.
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My problem getting matched with sub 75 players on vet flash points is that it exacerbates the other issues you commonly run into. It isn’t a problem for my tanks, but if I’m running an Infiltration Shadow, for example, and I’m lvl 75 item rating 306 matched with lower level players, I’m effectively tanking the entire run. Which is fine if people are considerate. But the odds that someone doesn’t know how to LOS (or refuses to do so), or otherwise just can’t manage the mechanics seem to go up with lower level players for whatever reason. And I don’t have the survivability to tank through their mistakes with my DPS Shadow.

 

In general, I’ve just been frustrated lately with how often people are totally incompetent even on Hammer Station. Pulling unnecessary groups when you have stealth CC in the team, refusing to LOS the first big pull, etc. I had a guy the other day running a lvl 20-something Sentinel. He leaps into the group and gets killed in less than 10 seconds. When I mention LOS, he gets offended and tells me I wouldn’t need to LOS if I had any skill and brags about Being the greatest player in the history of ever. The game seems overrun with these guys lately.

Edited by SoonerJBD
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75 only queue. Ability to add yourself to both queues (75 only and 74 & under) and take either that pops.

 

this would already be enough for most people..why the hell can you que for vet fps at lvl 15 minimum?

since 6.0 vets are already pretty difficult , even at 75 .

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I simpler thing would just be if the GF would tell you what the FP is before you hit Accept or Decline. Even better, I'd like it to pop up and say something like "A group is available for [insert Flashpoint], would you like to join? ".

 

That could actually help reviving GF a bit. It would also spare people from getting lockout timers for dropping fps they don't want to play. The current system is ridicilous. Those brainless HS farmers dictate what everyone else has to play, and if you are unlucky, might have to do 4-5 relogs before GF pops something other than HS.

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While not a direct answer to the problem I can see Bioware's response would be that you can filter the flashpoints before queuing. The reason I expect it hasn't been dealt with properly before is it does open up a whole can of worms in changing any aspect of it.

 

For example the actual problem (as opposed to it just taking longer due to lack of dps) of having sub 75 players in certain flashpoints is down to mechanics, what's the point in having a 30 second res timer if you can queue a healer that doesn't even combat res yet, or a tank without taunt or threat control? The original flashpoints were crafted to ensure that players would have the tools they needed to complete them at the level they became available. When the ability reworks happened all of sudden you had leveling players without the skills they needed for the flashpoints which was compounded by opening up a lot of the flashpoints into tacticals instead. So do we change the access level, re-order ability acquisition across all classes or change mechanics in the flashpoints?

 

Focusing on something like the bonus rewards for selecting all FPs, If someone like me has completed most vet flashpoints to the point of all achievements completed (many times over if it tracked actual runs) or is so bored of it constantly being Hammer, Athis or Directive 7 popping why should there be less of a reward for targeting our playtime to things we actually want to do. But at the same time how would that solve farmers always queuing for the same FPs?

 

That doesn't even then touch on HM bonus bosses being a complete waste of time vs. reward.

 

As I said it's a can of worms that anyway you look at it would take more dev time to fix then they can probably spare. It would be nice if they could look at it one day though.

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In general, I’ve just been frustrated lately with how often people are totally incompetent even on Hammer Station. Pulling unnecessary groups when you have stealth CC in the team, refusing to LOS the first big pull, etc. I had a guy the other day running a lvl 20-something Sentinel. He leaps into the group and gets killed in less than 10 seconds. When I mention LOS, he gets offended and tells me I wouldn’t need to LOS if I had any skill and brags about Being the greatest player in the history of ever. The game seems overrun with these guys lately.

 

Can I just say people not CCing or stealthing past stuff doesnt make them incompetent, some people including myself dislike it when groups skip past everything, I dont pay for a sub to skip past half the mobs in a flashpoint.

 

Imcompetency would be if they actually couldnt clear a group of mobs for whatever reason or an easy boss fight like the firts boss on hammer station.

 

I do agree about the type of people that just leap into groups willy nilly like the sentinal you mentioned. If your gonna not skip, people need to atleast do it sensibly and co-ordinated instead of just randomly jumping into mobs.

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In general, I’ve just been frustrated lately with how often people are totally incompetent even on Hammer Station. Pulling unnecessary groups when you have stealth CC in the team, refusing to LOS the first big pull, etc. I had a guy the other day running a lvl 20-something Sentinel. He leaps into the group and gets killed in less than 10 seconds. When I mention LOS, he gets offended and tells me I wouldn’t need to LOS if I had any skill and brags about Being the greatest player in the history of ever. The game seems overrun with these guys lately.

Some people get all LOS crazy in Hammer Station. (And, btw, many new players have no idea what LOS means.)

There's no group in HS that really "requires" LOS - even that first "big pull"**

As a Gunslinger, I'd say that every mob in HS is close enough together for AoE. Often times the LOS-oholics just confuse things by trying to LOS everything. But, I've often been in VM HS without any LOS'ing at all and did just fine.

 

That level 20-something Sentinel may have had a point. HS seems overrun by LOS'ing rushers lately. 🙂

 

** It may be marginally better to pull that group around the corner, but they can be AoE'd where they start at, without LOS, especially if there's a tank. Also of course, different people seem to have different ideas of where they should be pulled to.

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