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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?


Dovahbrah

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Well stuff that are datamined are usually true the vast majority of the time. People datamined crap all the time in WoW, and most of it became true. I still remember when people datamined white saber crystals when the game first came out, and they eventually got added in lol. But yes, until it's officially in patch notes, it's doesn't mean jack.

 

Anyways, if the stuff from Darth Hater go through for commandos, I'll be happy. Net isn't the disengage/reverse leap I wanted, but holy crap is it awesome.

 

i agree that in theory the net thing sounds cool, but it sounds like a base class ability that both VG/PT and Mando/Merc will get.

 

also, in comparison to the other what the other classes will be getting, Mando/Merc is still likely going to be on the bottom of the totem pole.

 

this game needed a balance check. bioware needed to pick a certain level of performance, and then bring all classes either up or down to that level. based on the info from the datamine, it looks like they are just buffing every class. which does nothing but preserve the status quo, like ive already said.

 

and if 1.7 comes out and there are absolutely no changes to class balance, im going to find it hard to justify sticking with this game. i need to find a good guild; playing this game by yourself for the most part if boring as hell

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Is this your first MMO or something...(Electro Net) will not be affected by saber reflect.

 

Is English your 8th language or something? All the entities with damage reflect abilities currently reflect DoT damage. And BW has made a habit of inserting descriptions of how abilities work that are diametrically opposed to how they actually work.

 

But let's say for argument's sake that it does. So *********** what? I'd rather that melee be 30m away from me slowed to hell and not able to leap to me, and reflect whatever damage net is doing to him, than him leaping to my face and destroying me.

 

If you've ever played a melee, you must be a horrible one. Letting a Merc open up a 30m gap from melee range because he put a 50% snare on you? Horrible. A competent melee will be able to hit the Merc for the full 9 second duration of Electro Net, while the Merc is doing what? Nothing for approximately half that time due to Saber Reflect. The bottom line is that the addition of Saber Reflect + Electro Net is a net add of several free GCDs to a competent melee player. For you, evidently not so much.

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Juggernaut Vs Commando

 

Jagg: Saber Throw + Force Charge ~ 2-3,5k dmg

- Force Charge interrupt and stun Commando

- Commando cant stun Juggernaut - Force Charge gives the resistance to all stuns

Jagg: Sundering Assault + Smash ~ 7-8k dmg

Jagg: Force Push + Force Charge ~ 2 k dmg + interrupt, + resistance

Jagg: ravage - cant be interrupt ~ 3-4k dmg + Smash ~6k dmg

Jagg: Vicious Throw ~ 3-4k dmg

Commando is dead - Juggernauts have 90% hp

The same situation with Marauders

 

Last WZ:

My team: 4 Commando, 1 Guard, 1 Setn., 2 Sages

Enemy team: 1 Sorc., 4 Marauders, 3 Jugger.

We could not leave the respawn....

 

I have 5 item Elite WH and 20,5k hp, Commando is my main. I play this game from the beginning.

Edited by BoskiCesiu
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Juggernaut Vs Commando

 

Jagg: Saber Throw + Force Charge ~ 2-3,5k dmg only when crit which happens rarely with 22-25%crit, which most Smashers use to have

- Force Charge interrupt and stun Commando Force Charge does not stun

- Commando cant stun Juggernaut - Force Charge gives the resistance to all stuns only if specced hybrid, which means they dont have Force Crush and basically only 2 sources for shockwave stacks

Jagg: Sundering Assault + Smash ~ 7-8k dmg Sundering Assault deals on heavy Armor max 1.8k and only if it crits (see first note) ive yet to see a 6-7k smash on my Commando, max 5-5.8k

Jagg: Force Push + Force Charge ~ 2 k dmg + interrupt, + resistance resistantce, again only if specced hybrid

Jagg: ravage - cant be interrupt ~ 3-4k dmg + Smash ~6k dmg Ravage can be stunned, and i dont know how he got his second 4 stacks shockwave?

 

Commando is dead - Juggernauts have 90% hp

The same situation with Marauders

 

I have 5 item Elite WH and 20,5k hp, Commando is my main. I play this game from the beginning.

 

Lets say the Jugga plays the unstoppable Smash hybrid spec and using your "Jugga opening Rotation":

Jagg: Saber Throw + Force Charge ----> 4 second Stun immunity + Jagg: Sundering Assault + Smash (means he used his Combat Focus to get 4 instant shockwave stacks)

---> pop defcooldowns , Reactive Shield + Warzone Adrenal + 5% dmg reduction trough gunnery Tree 45% dmg reduction on top of 31% dmg reduction trough heavy armor, smash hits rediculous low now ----> pop Arenalin Rush (heals Smash dmg completely away), at this point you could actually knock him back after the 4 seconds immunity are over, you could have baited his interrupt with a Fullcast Plasma Grenade

 

Jagg: Force Push + Force Charge ~ 2 k dmg + interrupt, + resistance +Jagg: ravage - cant be interrupt ~ 3-4k dmg + Smash ~6k dmg

Doesnt work, because he needs to Choke/Stasis you in order to get again 4 stacks shockwave (its the only remaining soruce after combat focus is used, considering he is a hybrid), you just CC break the stun, no shockwave stacks for the Jugga

 

After this you have a 35-40 second window in which he just cant smash you with shockwave stacks. Sustained dmg of a Smasher is laughably low.

 

You can use instant Advanced Medical Probe 2k-3.9k heal

Medpack 6k heal

Tech Override + Medical Probe 2.5k - 5k heal

or Tech Override + Concussive Round if he used his stunbreaker und Cryo Grenade, and heal back up with Medical probe (3x eventually even 4x)

 

 

If he isnt using the unstoppable hybrid its pretty faceroll.

Edited by texoc
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...

 

---> pop defcooldowns , Reactive Shield + Warzone Adrenal + 5% dmg reduction trough gunnery Tree 45% dmg reduction on top of 31% dmg reduction trough heavy armor, smash hits rediculous low now

 

...

 

Full EWH here (except the earpiece & implants), I still eat 7K's Force Sweep, buddy.

Edited by yoomazir
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Full EWH here (except the earpiece & implants), I still eat 7K's Force Sweep, buddy.

 

Probably an inspiration/ warzone red buff boosted smash.

 

My Slinger in medium armor (with out any dmg reducing talents, out of cover) gets hit max 6.8k by an absolutely min/maxed 100% full elite WH Smasher from my guild with Sundering Strike armor Debuff on me and 10% Leap Bonus.

 

Dont come here and tell me you get smashed for 7k on heavy armor on a regular basis (while having even 5% dmg reduction up from gunnery tree)

Edited by texoc
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Dont come here and tell me you get smashed for 7k on heavy armor on a regular basis (while having even 5% dmg reduction up from gunnery tree)

 

Don't come here telling us Commando/Mercs are fine.

 

From time to time there's a guys like you that comes bragging in this topic that this AC class is fine, when it's not, and then your kind vanish afterward, because you have no proof or videos proving your statements, simply because they don't exist.

If yes, please, I really hope you are on the Red Eclipse, and if you have no character on that server I'll help ya boosting and even throw a couple of millions to help gear you up, because I have a bunch of PTs/Jugs/Ops that I'm eager to present you because they would be more than willing to be ganked by a merc (it would be a first for them) in a 1v1... yeah, thought so.

 

Still, thank you for you marvelous pvp skillz contributions... not.

Edited by yoomazir
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Don't come here telling us Commando/Mercs are fine.

 

From time to time there's a guys like you that comes bragging in this topic that this AC class is fine, when it's not, and then your kind vanish afterward, because you have no proof or videos proving your statements, simply because they don't exist.

If yes, please, I really hope you are on the Red Eclipse, and if you have no character on that server I'll help ya boosting and even throw a couple of millions to help gear you up, because I have a bunch of PTs/Jugs/Ops that I'm eager to present you because they would be more than willing to be ganked by a merc (it would be a first for them) in a 1v1... yeah, thought so.

 

Still, thank you for you marvelous pvp skillz contributions... not.

 

all he did, was to tell that with less dmg reduction he takes less damage, and he thinks you are mistaken and you jump on him like angry gorilla... amusing.

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Don't come here telling us Commando/Mercs are fine.

 

From time to time there's a guys like you that comes bragging in this topic that this AC class is fine, when it's not, and then your kind vanish afterward, because you have no proof or videos proving your statements, simply because they don't exist.

If yes, please, I really hope you are on the Red Eclipse, and if you have no character on that server I'll help ya boosting and even throw a couple of millions to help gear you up, because I have a bunch of PTs/Jugs/Ops that I'm eager to present you because they would be more than willing to be ganked by a merc (it would be a first for them) in a 1v1... yeah, thought so.

 

Still, thank you for you marvelous pvp skillz contributions... not.

 

I never said the class is "FINE". But I definately think its not as bad as people make it sound.

 

I just wrote down a possible way to deal with an Unstoppable Smash Jugga, because it just sounded like the Jugga would stomp a Dummy.

 

Further I dont know why you are comparing the 2 worst 1v1 specs.

 

Besides this is a team game:

 

Healers need dmg dealers to kill, and tanks to absorb damage.

Tanks need obviously DDs and healers to keep them up.

 

And a Commando needs classes that draw the enemies attention and healers to back them up.

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I never said the class is "FINE". But I definately think its not as bad as people make it sound.

...

 

Listen, I might have went a little too far with my previous post, but I, as someone who have experienced RWZ in my EWH gear, can tell you that this class is as bad as people make it sound, seriously.

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Listen, I might have went a little too far with my previous post, but I, as someone who have experienced RWZ in my EWH gear, can tell you that this class is as bad as people make it sound, seriously.

 

And as someone who has seen ...

 

full EWH Commandos barely put up 240dps in a full novare RBG while free casting and the own team completely dominateing the other team...

and not even fully modded War Hero put up 800dps in a RBG and finishing the game with 10+ deaths....

 

...I certainly believe beeing in EWH =/= being skilled

 

(Im not saying that you lack skill etc.)

 

2 Weeks ago we put up a RBG Team with Assault Commando and a DD Sage ... and hell it worked and both outdpsed every single Powertech and Smasher on this day.

 

People say Commandos are the worst Healers, yet those teams on our server that have 1 are the hardest to take down, constantely healing 1100hps+ and absolutely immortal when guarded.

 

Heck people believed pre 1.2 that marauders/sentinels where the worst class ever and nobody wanted sentinels/maras in their raid. I got called a hacker for winning 1v3s and topping off 800dps, because how could someone possibly be so good on a freakin broken class.

 

We even used/ and are going to use again Scrapper Scoundrel in our setup. Because we have this 1 Scoundrel, that is able to surpass the dmg of a Pyrotech.

 

People say Concealment is not viable in a raid, and than suddenly someone joins the discussion posting a evidence of a Concealment reaching 1900dps in a raid.

 

Forum Opinions =/= Truth

Edited by texoc
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Would you people just spam Grav Round and assist?

 

 

Why is assisting so hard for you people? You deal lots of upfront damage, and it armor debuffs.

 

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

 

Why is this so hard?

Edited by KettleBelll
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Would you people just spam Grav Round and assist?

 

 

Why is assisting so hard for you people? You deal lots of upfront damage, and it armor debuffs.

 

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

 

Why is this so hard?

 

I feel commando/merc hate rage comming. get ready for grav round in ur face

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Would you people just spam Grav Round and assist?

 

 

Why is assisting so hard for you people? You deal lots of upfront damage, and it armor debuffs.

 

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

 

Why is this so hard?

 

 

Man, it's kinda depressing when this topic has more than 1k posts and yet peopel like this come here and pretty much trash what we're fighting for, GG pple.

Edited by yoomazir
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look, it is possible to succeed as a Merc/Mando. many of us have done it, even in RWZ.

 

the bottomline is that other DPS classes are more proficient in almost every way. i recently made the switch to powertech, and it is better than Merc in every way.

 

i do not feel at a disadvantage for lack of range; the vast majority of combat takes place within 10m, and closing from 30m takes only a few seconds. i never have to stop moving while doing damage. i have much better utility with a pull and an AOE stun.

 

on my Merc, i was usually able to pull ~350k damage per warzone, topping at around 500-600k usually once a day. on my powertech, 450k is a meh game, and 600k is what i can pull in a 8 minute void star.

 

playing a Merc is like purposefully handicapping yourself

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(...) (while having even 5% dmg reduction up from gunnery tree)

 

And u know that this HC 5% dmg reduction has to be stacked by 3 tracers/gravs? - interruptable, 1,5 s cast...

 

Would you people just spam Grav Round and assist?

 

Why is assisting so hard for you people? You deal lots of upfront damage, and it armor debuffs.

 

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

- Ctrl-F and Grav Round

 

Why is this so hard?

 

That's made my day. I can't see any point of taking "assisant DD" (sic) when u put in his place full DD.

Edited by Pefny
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Are you kidding? you think the reason mercs are having so much trouble is that they don't assist? I don't even know where to start on this one...

 

yeah, lol

 

when RWZ first came out, I was actually the one calling out targets for the assist.

 

really has nothing to do with why Mercs dont stack up against other classes when you compare on an equal level of skill

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the bottomline is that other DPS classes are more proficient in almost every way. i recently made the switch to powertech, and it is better than Merc in every way.

 

i do not feel at a disadvantage for lack of range; the vast majority of combat takes place within 10m, and closing from 30m takes only a few seconds. i never have to stop moving while doing damage. i have much better utility with a pull and an AOE stun.

 

Exactly!!!! There is nothing a Commando/Merc does that another class can't do better. I made this same switch (Mando to Van) and the difference is staggering. The team utility a Vanguard brings vs. a Mando is just ridiculous.

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LOL@ Grav Round spam = lots of upfront damage.

 

If we could reliably get out Grav Round in a competitive environment the class wouldn't have issues. The in ability to reliably get it out against anyone who knows what we're doing is a huge part of our DPS issues (which is different from our utility and survivability issues).

 

You realize how hard a focus spec blade storm hits? I regularly crit it for 4.5k. I'd be fine absorbing that one too. Sweep is melee range too, so it runs into the same issue as cauterize. When I knock them away, they can't hit me with it. But once again, the fact that diversion is off GCD means I decide when I want it to absorb something. The enemy cannot get around it like they would be able to if it was on the GCD.

 

It hits not much harder than Combat Spec Blade Storm without PS, and it still hits less hard than sweep which is what they'll be trying to stop from Focus Spec.

 

For combat it doesn't matter that sweep is melee range. You're waiting to use PS till they blow their knockback anyway if you're smart. Everyone always thinks if you just stop PS > MS you've shut them down, but it's the PS part of that that's dangerous, and that comes up much more often and smart combat sents will look for their opportunity then destroy you with it. Diversion isn't gonna stop it when all they have to do is watch for it and then sweep because, again, Diversion isn't a subtle animation (unlike PS).

 

Although, as you've pointed out, combat sents still have stasis, and they don't need to worry about singularity stacks, so they can use that to clear your Diversion from outside melee range. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

One attack can make or break a fight easily. Absorbing a huge hit or CC will turn the fight to your favor.

 

Ok so you haven't played WoW so that means you don't understand how useful this ability is. I know how useful it is because in WoW one class has the exact same ability called grounding totem, but grounding totem was not off GCD and it was a physical object so you could just whack it with autoattack to remove it. Diversion has neither of these issues and it's usefulness will depend completely on your skill and ability to read the situation to time it right.

 

One attack makes the difference, but my point is that everyone will have a relatively low hitting ability they can waste on Diversion, and then get on with it. One GCD can make the difference for a shadow in a good 1v1. It won't make the difference for us.

 

Yes you can decide when to use it, but again it's not subtle and smart people will definitely look for it. You don't get to go "Oh he's using BS" and pop Diversion. At that point the damage is going to go through. They'll see it, they'll use their low damaging force/tech ability (honestly only one I'm having trouble thinking of one for is Infiltration Shadow, but I'm sure I can find something, and that's assuming it doesn't just count shadow technique), and then they'll continue on with the pwnage.

 

One attack dodged. One. Count 'em.

 

It's about absorbing the 100% armor penetration blade storm. That **** hurts like a truck. Regular blade storm isn't nearly as bad cause we got like 30-35% damage red.

 

Again, if you think Focus Blade Storm is worth blocking, then so is Combat's, even without PS. Even without the armor pen they still have a 30% boost to it's crit multiplier. Also I don't think you quite appreciate the carnage 5 Blade Rushes in a row can do to a person when they have 100% armor penetration. (Zen reduces the GCD to 1 second for that ability).

 

Also, they can just stasis which will get absorbed then if you knocked them back early enough they now have time to smack you good with that boosted Blade Storm.

 

Don't think I've ever hit 6k with dispatch. My guardian doesn't have +30% surge for dispatch so it doesn't crit nearly as hard as my commando's demo round which does have that.

 

It can definitely happen.

 

Net is definitely better than some of the other **** other classes are getting because it's very unique and extremely useful for gibbing classes in RWZ. They can't escape, thus they die.

 

The shadow changes alone are pretty amazing. I'm surprised that's not getting more press. Tank Hybrids smacking you in the face with Shadowstrike?

 

Saber reflect sounds cool, but it's most likely only for guardians and they need love badly because focus guardians weren't that bad since they're easy as **** to kill, and vig guardians are super lols. Vig didn't really get **** for buffs either. Still only dps tree with no 30% surge talent.

 

You say that but I can't for the life of me figure out why. Didn't one of the tooltips mention needing both sabers? Wasn't it you pointing out a little while ago that it was most likely for sentinels only? Make up your mind yeah?

 

Phase walk is extremely cool will will completely change the way huttball is played, but net will neutralize it. GG.

 

Any shadow with cooldowns and looking to ball carry can stay alive for 9 seconds. We also don't know if resilience will cleanse it.

 

I'm not saying electro net isn't pretty cool. All of these abilities from all of these classes are going to be game changers, but electro net looks like pretty much it to me for gunnery, whereas others are getting pretty interesting changes in their trees as well.

 

Electro Net is pretty much our only hope for unique utility right now, otherwise we're staying out of ranked warzones for the indefinite future.

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Exactly!!!! There is nothing a Commando/Merc does that another class can't do better. I made this same switch (Mando to Van) and the difference is staggering. The team utility a Vanguard brings vs. a Mando is just ridiculous.

 

Vanguard: Taunts, Grapple, Stealth scan, 10m Burst Dmg, aoe 3sec stun, 4m interrupt

 

Commando: 360° aoe Knockback + 5 sec slow, Stealth Scan, Cleanse, Off-Heals, 30m Burst Dmg, 30m interrupt, 8sec/30m mezz, rediculous amount of AOE,

 

and if specced gunnery: 4 sec Root and 70% slow on Full Auto (which helps your Team when focusing or peeling off)

Edited by texoc
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Vanguard: Taunts, Grapple, Stealth scan, 10m Burst Dmg, aoe 3sec stun, 4m interrupt

 

Commando: 360° aoe Knockback + 5 sec slow, Stealth Scan, Cleanse, Off-Heals, 30m Burst Dmg, 30m interrupt, 8sec/30m mezz, rediculous amount of AOE,

 

and if specced gunnery: 4 sec Root and 70% slow on Full Auto (which helps your Team when focusing or peeling off)

 

Are you serious?!

 

AOE damage is completely overrated. AOE damage doesn't take down 2 healers. AOE damage on the scale of 2k per target, doesn't even compare to smash. A cast heal that consumes ammo, takes 2 seconds to cast, is interruptable and is almost entirely useless 95% of the time. The knockback seems great - until you realize you just knocked them all back to leap range as you're rooted/smashed to death.

 

Gunnery is a worthless spec in PvP. I know some guys can do well with it, but they are certainly not playing top tier players. Every time I see a Merc against me spamming tracer missile, it fills me with joy knowing just how much I'll shut him down the entire match. The only way they are successful, is against a team that anyone would have beaten. The dependence on cast times KILLS the class. The range of the attack means nothing when it takes longer to cast a single attack than it does to close the gap. Sadly, that's the biggest problem with this spec is just how flipping stationary it must be.

 

The ONLY thing a Commando has going for it over Vanguard, is the 30m interrupt. Otherwise, Vanguard is undeniably better and more team oriented.

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i agree that in theory the net thing sounds cool, but it sounds like a base class ability that both VG/PT and Mando/Merc will get.

 

also, in comparison to the other what the other classes will be getting, Mando/Merc is still likely going to be on the bottom of the totem pole.

 

this game needed a balance check. bioware needed to pick a certain level of performance, and then bring all classes either up or down to that level. based on the info from the datamine, it looks like they are just buffing every class. which does nothing but preserve the status quo, like ive already said.

 

and if 1.7 comes out and there are absolutely no changes to class balance, im going to find it hard to justify sticking with this game. i need to find a good guild; playing this game by yourself for the most part if boring as hell

 

Focus got nerfed pretty good, so not everyone got a flat across the board buff. Bubble stun also got nerfed so it's self only. The two biggest things people complained about--and rightly so--got nerfed. Some of the other class buffs were either meh--like vigilance guardian buffs--to pretty good--deception assassins.

 

1.7 is coming out tom so ya, there's no class changes. The datamined stuff are most likely expansion.

Edited by Smashbrother
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