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The Shadowlands: Ops Progression Thread


NoxIrradiata

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The Gray Order also killed Dreadtooth 5 times yesterday. We have kills on him with 1, 2, and 3 stacks. I am sure someone took a screenshot. We also have 3 saved essences and will be doing him with 4 and 5 stacks soon.

 

If there is a well progressed 8M guild who would like to join us in attempting the 5 stacks version with 24 players (max operations group) please send any member of TGO a tell, and we will coordinate something. (Looking at you omg PINK.)

 

Regards,

KK

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<The Revenant> (Empire) downed Toth and Zorn (8 man nightmare) at 9:01pm server time.

 

http://i45.tinypic.com/8yt8g2.jpg

 

And just because:

http://i47.tinypic.com/wjt7yv.jpg

 

That's funny, you were boasting in /1 of Denova that you killed him at 10:00 last night, not 9:00. Also, based on your other posts and screenshots, you are in CST, not EST. Prime example in this very thread:

<The Revenant> (Empire) Successfully downed 8man HM Operator on Wednesday, October 10th at 10:51pm server time (or EST).

 

Screenshot showing the group:

http://i49.tinypic.com/k2l74g.jpg

 

Screenshot showing lockouts:

http://i47.tinypic.com/zwn51c.jpg

 

Why you gotta lie?

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That's funny, you were boasting in /1 of Denova that you killed him at 10:00 last night, not 9:00. Also, based on your other posts and screenshots, you are in CST, not EST. Prime example in this very thread:

 

 

Why you gotta lie?

 

 

LOL! I asked this in /1 chat last night, and kept getting told... "why does it matter to you?!" "Quit picking on us...."

 

Seriously... Should move to pub side if comes available and have real competition and players to compete with like TGO/Stoic/CG... not these *******s who are the only people that seem to think 16 man is easier than 8 man.

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LOL! I asked this in /1 chat last night, and kept getting told... "why does it matter to you?!" "Quit picking on us...."

 

Seriously... Should move to pub side if comes available and have real competition and players to compete with like TGO/Stoic/CG... not these *******s who are the only people that seem to think 16 man is easier than 8 man.

 

16 Man IS easier than 8man, it has always been so, especially in TFB. But I do agree that TGO is awesome, Stoic...not so much.

Edited by devtek
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That's funny, you were boasting in /1 of Denova that you killed him at 10:00 last night, not 9:00. Also, based on your other posts and screenshots, you are in CST, not EST. Prime example in this very thread:

 

Why you gotta lie?

 

I'm not in CST - nor was I the one boasting. When asked in general chat last night, I did mention that. I was posting on behalf of a guildmate who is (for some reason) unable to post in the forums, and am actually part of a different raid group within the same guild. You'll note that none of the characters I have listed in my signature are part of the group in the screenshot. :) I don't even know what was said in /1 in Asation last night so I can't agree/disagree with what was said, but I will assume in this instance that there truly are two sides to every story.

 

LOL! I asked this in /1 chat last night, and kept getting told... "why does it matter to you?!" "Quit picking on us...."

 

Seriously... Should move to pub side if comes available and have real competition and players to compete with like TGO/Stoic/CG... not these *******s who are the only people that seem to think 16 man is easier than 8 man.

 

Actually, I was trying to say it really didn't matter at all - not asking anyone to stop "picking on us". We weren't server first, and 8 man is still a different category from 16 man - which SDU was. Ultimately, the kill times aren't posted in the topic post, just the date of the kill - so it really doesn't matter what time Z&T were killed. I'm not sure why you're arguing the point so strongly or are trying to make such a big deal out of something that does not affect your guild, or really why you felt the need to curse at us. :) We're all part of the same server, same community, we should try to get along rather than be at odds with each other. :p

 

But to stay on topic:

 

<The Revenant> (empire) downed Dreadtooth (1 stack) today at 11:00pm server time. Waited for him to respawn, and got him again. :)

 

http://i48.tinypic.com/1pgx2t.jpg

Edited by Niorlan
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LOL! I asked this in /1 chat last night, and kept getting told... "why does it matter to you?!" "Quit picking on us...."

 

Seriously... Should move to pub side if comes available and have real competition and players to compete with like TGO/Stoic/CG... not these *******s who are the only people that seem to think 16 man is easier than 8 man.

 

I know this is still pretty offtopic to the thread but in all honesty 16man IS easier than 8man. Just not by a very large margin... I mean we just went in and blew through 16man TFB hm on the first attempt in like 2 hours. Granted we had 8man experience but some people boast that they're so much different, when in reality they aren't. It all boils down to the fact that 8man and 16man aren't difficulties, hardmode/nightmare mode are difficulties. 8man and 16man are just the number of players you want to raid with.

 

I am in no way trying to devalue ANYONE's accomplishments, these are just my opinions. We're all part of the same server here we shouldn't be enemies.

Edited by bigheadbrandon
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I know this is still pretty offtopic to the thread but in all honesty 16man IS easier than 8man. Just not by a very large margin... I mean we just went in and blew through 16man TFB hm on the first attempt in like 2 hours.

 

BUT the same can be said for us going from 16man to 8man. So by that logic, isn't 8man the easier one?

 

16 Man IS easier than 8man, it has always been so, especially in TFB. But I do agree that TGO is awesome, Stoic...not so much.

 

Come on, 8man terror fight is a complete joke compared to 16man, we all know this. Same for the other fights, they just aren't as big of a difference.

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16 Man IS easier than 8man, it has always been so, especially in TFB. But I do agree that TGO is awesome, Stoic...not so much.

 

16 man in TFB is 100% harder.

 

why? because all of the boss fights are execution fights. the more people, the higher the chance for -->ONE<-- just one to slip up and cause the raid to wipe.

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16 man in TFB is 100% harder.

 

why? because all of the boss fights are execution fights. the more people, the higher the chance for -->ONE<-- just one to slip up and cause the raid to wipe.

 

You just contradicted yourself.

 

The % chance of someone screwing up does not change the difficulty of the encounter. The difficulty of the encounter is static, with the variables being the players. If you have 16 players that already perform above the level required for the encounter, you actually double your margin for error. The same holds true that if you have 16 players that perform at level required, the margin for error becomes zero.

 

During our server first kill of 16M TFB HM, we actually had 1 DC during the first phase and 2 DC's during the last phase of the fight, and still managed to complete the encounter with ease. Go watch our video, maybe it will help clear things up.

 

Regards,

KK

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IF you honestly think 16 is easier than 8.... then go look at the progression threads of the 16 guilds and 8 guilds.... its not even close how much further 8 man guilds are. 8 man is not hard progression. Sorry, anyone thinking so i delusional.

 

The only fight that was ever any more difficult on 8 man in this game was Pre 1.2 Soa, with all the bugs you were fighting against. Everything else... has been scaled up more for 16 man, and even the own Bioware Dev's have said so.

 

Arli/Revenant... I don't want to get along with you...

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IF you honestly think 16 is easier than 8.... then go look at the progression threads of the 16 guilds and 8 guilds.... its not even close how much further 8 man guilds are. 8 man is not hard progression. Sorry, anyone thinking so i delusional.

 

The only fight that was ever any more difficult on 8 man in this game was Pre 1.2 Soa, with all the bugs you were fighting against. Everything else... has been scaled up more for 16 man, and even the own Bioware Dev's have said so.

 

Arli/Revenant... I don't want to get along with you...

 

Operator IX and terror are arguably more difficult on 8man than 16man. 16man Operator IX is a joke you can lose like 3 people and still have no trouble on it. 16man Terror you have the same numbler of irregularities and twice the people to kill them. On the flipside some fights are easier on 8man, for example kephess and the dread guard.

To repeat my original point: 8 and 16man are not difficulty settings.

Edited by bigheadbrandon
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BUT the same can be said for us going from 16man to 8man. So by that logic, isn't 8man the easier one?

 

 

 

Come on, 8man terror fight is a complete joke compared to 16man, we all know this. Same for the other fights, they just aren't as big of a difference.

 

We all don't "know this" nor do we even remotely agree.

 

You're a 16M guild who was beaten by an 8M guild to what you are calling the most difficult fight in the game. Our first night in 16M HM TFB we full cleared and managed to claim server first, to the dismay of all the 16M guilds on our server.

 

I will reiterate my other point again, the difficulty of the encounters is static, the variable is held in the individual players themselves. When you have 16 players performing above the level required to complete an encounter, your margin for error is doubled, however if you mix in players who have a tendency to "screw up" which can cause a wipe or players who just barely get by, your margin for error is reduced.

 

We can debate 8 vs 16 all you want, but when push comes to shove, the difficulty is not the encounter, the difficulty is finding 16 players who all perform above the level required to win. So yes, it is easier to find 8 amazing players versus 16. But in terms of the encounters themselves, 16M is significantly easier than 8M simply based on the margin for error you are allotted when executing the fights.

 

And it is that very reason we were able to beat every single 16M guild on this server to the first kill of 16M TFB HM. We had 16 players that night and did not need to worry about a single one of them not pulling their weight. Hell, if you watch our video, you will see we had 1 DC during the first phase and 2 DC's during the second, and completely the fight with ease. So the question you need to ask yourself is: Is it the fight that is difficult, or is it carrying bad players that is difficult?

 

Regards,

KK

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IF you honestly think 16 is easier than 8.... then go look at the progression threads of the 16 guilds and 8 guilds.... its not even close how much further 8 man guilds are. 8 man is not hard progression. Sorry, anyone thinking so i delusional.

 

The only fight that was ever any more difficult on 8 man in this game was Pre 1.2 Soa, with all the bugs you were fighting against. Everything else... has been scaled up more for 16 man, and even the own Bioware Dev's have said so.

 

Arli/Revenant... I don't want to get along with you...

 

Progression threads have nothing to do with difficulty of the content. If you compare the percentage of all 8M raiding guilds who have completed all the content, to the percentage of all 16M raiding guilds who have completed all content, I guarantee you the percentage is higher for 16M guilds versus 8M.

 

And seriously, read my other posts. Assembling 16 capable players is the difficulty barrier, not the content itself. The content itself is significantly easier on 16M HM simply based on the margin for error you have.

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We all don't "know this" nor do we even remotely agree.

 

You're a 16M guild who was beaten by an 8M guild to what you are calling the most difficult fight in the game. Our first night in 16M HM TFB we full cleared and managed to claim server first, to the dismay of all the 16M guilds on our server.

 

I will reiterate my other point again, the difficulty of the encounters is static, the variable is held in the individual players themselves. When you have 16 players performing above the level required to complete an encounter, your margin for error is doubled, however if you mix in players who have a tendency to "screw up" which can cause a wipe or players who just barely get by, your margin for error is reduced.

 

We can debate 8 vs 16 all you want, but when push comes to shove, the difficulty is not the encounter, the difficulty is finding 16 players who all perform above the level required to win. So yes, it is easier to find 8 amazing players versus 16. But in terms of the encounters themselves, 16M is significantly easier than 8M simply based on the margin for error you are allotted when executing the fights.

 

And it is that very reason we were able to beat every single 16M guild on this server to the first kill of 16M TFB HM. We had 16 players that night and did not need to worry about a single one of them not pulling their weight. Hell, if you watch our video, you will see we had 1 DC during the first phase and 2 DC's during the second, and completely the fight with ease. So the question you need to ask yourself is: Is it the fight that is difficult, or is it carrying bad players that is difficult?

 

Regards,

KK

 

With Thanksgiving coming next week, and attendance being low, can prolly say we'll be doing 8 mans, and we'll eclipse the progression of our 16 man fairly easily... hell.... might even beat it. My point will be further proven and you can argue about your *********** greatness of being an 8 man guild that beat a 16 man guild to a fight scaled higher. Have fun and enjoy yourself.

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16man Terror you have the same numbler of irregularities and twice the people to kill them.

 

You're kidding right? Do you not realize that the irregularities have ~3x the health in 16 as they do in 8??? Your point is invalid.

 

You're a 16M guild who was beaten by an 8M guild to what you are calling the most difficult fight in the game. Our first night in 16M HM TFB we full cleared and managed to claim server first, to the dismay of all the 16M guilds on our server.

We could care less that you beat us to the kill, more power to you. When did we ever say that this was the issue being argued about, and when did we ever bring this up? Oh yeah, never.

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You're kidding right? Do you not realize that the irregularities have ~3x the health in 16 as they do in 8??? Your point is invalid.

 

 

We could care less that you beat us to the kill, more power to you. When did we ever say that this was the issue being argued about, and when did we ever bring this up? Oh yeah, never.

 

Yeah, so the dps being able to 2 shot them in 8man translates to being able to 6 shot them in 16man. Still not a challenge if your dps isn't braindead

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With Thanksgiving coming next week, and attendance being low, can prolly say we'll be doing 8 mans, and we'll eclipse the progression of our 16 man fairly easily... hell.... might even beat it. My point will be further proven and you can argue about your *********** greatness of being an 8 man guild that beat a 16 man guild to a fight scaled higher. Have fun and enjoy yourself.

 

You mean, my point will be proven if you eclipse your own progression. What it means is within your 16M group, you have players who are under performing and need to be carried or have a tendency to make mistakes.

 

We are an 8M guild who runs 16M when we know for a fact, every single player can pull their weight. The fight isn't scaled higher, it is actually scaled lower when you account for double the players performing above the level required to complete an encounter, it allows you to easily beat mechanics such as enrages, % based mechanics, etc.

 

I am sorry that we finished the 16M version of the fight before you, but if you listen to the point I am making, I am actually saying it was not an accomplishment at all because the fight on 16M is easier.

 

Regards,

KK

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Yeah, so the dps being able to 2 shot them in 8man translates to being able to 6 shot them in 16man. Still not a challenge if your dps isn't braindead

 

Since when do you bring 12 dps into 16man operations? (Do the math.)

 

I am actually saying it was not an accomplishment at all because the fight on 16M is easier.

 

The same can be said about clearing it in 8man. We were able to clear it weeks before our 16man could. With 2 8man groups. With undergeared alts.

Edited by Blastahr
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http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=314290

 

Yea.... the community feels the same way. You're argument of gathering the 16 man is shared, BUT as well... the nuances of the fight... are scaled higher than just x2 , and the difficulty is just higher.

 

Here.... let's just compare apples to apples since we've both done them....

 

Health of an Anamoly in HM TFB in 8 man - 22k

Health of an Anamoly in HM TFB in 16 man - 87k

 

Health of Irregularties in HM TFB 8 man - 12978

Health of Irregularties in HM TFB 16 man - 34055

 

Health of Grasping Tentacles in 8 man - 167164

Health of Grasping Tentacles in 16 man - 573855

 

 

Now... im not the greatest *********** mathmetician... but for your argument of (just x2), you're a little off. More coordination rather than just send 2 ppl instead of 1 for instance is needed. More health, more time dps'ing, more damage the tanks are taking from special attacks... *********** blastahr ate a scream then a hit after it in 8 man and laughed at its damage, in 16.... not so much.

 

I will have no shame in saying our strat for 16 man was off, and holding us back on this fight. Congratulations on beating us, but I will have shame in saying that we've done both degree's of difficulties, and 8 man content is not meant to be as high as 16. Continue to argue me all you want...

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http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=314290

 

Yea.... the community feels the same way. You're argument of gathering the 16 man is shared, BUT as well... the nuances of the fight... are scaled higher than just x2 , and the difficulty is just higher.

 

Here.... let's just compare apples to apples since we've both done them....

 

Health of an Anamoly in HM TFB in 8 man - 22k

Health of an Anamoly in HM TFB in 16 man - 87k

 

Health of Irregularties in HM TFB 8 man - 12978

Health of Irregularties in HM TFB 16 man - 34055

 

Health of Grasping Tentacles in 8 man - 167164

Health of Grasping Tentacles in 16 man - 573855

 

 

Now... im not the greatest *********** mathmetician... but for your argument of (just x2), you're a little off. More coordination rather than just send 2 ppl instead of 1 for instance is needed. More health, more time dps'ing, more damage the tanks are taking from special attacks... *********** blastahr ate a scream then a hit after it in 8 man and laughed at its damage, in 16.... not so much.

 

I will have no shame in saying our strat for 16 man was off, and holding us back on this fight. Congratulations on beating us, but I will have shame in saying that we've done both degree's of difficulties, and 8 man content is not meant to be as high as 16. Continue to argue me all you want...

 

I said double the players performing above the level required to win. I never once mentioned math. The reason is the mechanics are inherently different since you still only use 2 tanks, you have 2 more healers, less movement for Anomolies, etc....

 

The point that not a single person can possibly refute is the fact that with twice as many players who can perform above the requirements for HPS, DPS, Tanking, etc will increase the margin for error by double.

 

And I have already conceded the difficulty for 16M is higher because of the problem finding 16 people who fall into the above category (players who perform above and beyond the average). But it is NOT MORE DIFFICULT because of mechanics, it actually is EASIER! And if you fail to see that, you are doing something completely wrong... which is probably why it took you significantly longer to complete the encounter than us.

 

Regards,

KK

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