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We need more ammo regen


Verain's Avatar


Verain
02.23.2014 , 09:14 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Broba View Post
Its not about realism of infinite ammo, its about competitive advantage and strategic usage.
It's always strategically correct to loose the missile- the ONLY exceptions are when you don't want to lose the missile's cooldown. And given the rest of the gameplay, that's a good thing. Ex: I don't want to proton a guy who can barrel roll, not because of the lost proton, but because of the reload time on the NEXT proton- I won't be able to capitalize on the post barrel roll enemy with another proton.

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Not to mention they'd have to completely change the tier system of clusters as some of them swap lower capacity for higher dps. Capacity extenders would also be rendered useless. It would be an unnecessary overhaul.
Overhaul?

Here's your changes:


The guy who gives you 25% ammo instead increases missile and torpedo damage by 3%.
The magazine maxes out, not at 50% more ammo, but at 6% more missile damage.


Overhaul done!

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
02.23.2014 , 09:39 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Realism is great when it can happen. Infinite and almost instant ship respawns is nonsense already.
Yep.

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I think we all agree it would make more sense, logically, if your drone carrier could just poop out your 12 drones that fit inside you and then wouldn't have any more.
Please no, but yep.

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And of COURSE, we should be able to blind fire concussions and protons at the very least, and likely EVERYTHING (that was the mechanical reason for ammo on these powerful items back in X-Wing).
Please yes. Please, please yes.

Except maybe clusters, cause they would kinda go everywhere and I guarantee I would accidentally blind-fire them too many times.

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But, the limiting reagent on your missiles isn't really your missiles. Do you ever think it's cool to be out of missiles? The limiting reagent on your missiles is the amount of time you spend locking on to actually SHOOT the missiles, and your targeting versus your opponent's evasion. THAT is the actual mechanic at work here.
Nope, that's one of the mechanics.

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Running out of blaster is cool. It means you were shooting a bunch or got tricked into shooting wrong or you just are spent. It also comes back quick, and there's options to make it a bit cheaper.
Yep.

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Running out of missiles adds NOTHING to the game except for a good player running their sting into an asteroid to get a refill. Because realistically, that's what you would do, right?
Nope. I've not done that since 2.6, and I only did it a handful of times pre-patch.

In an extended match where I'm not at great risk of dying, I have to weigh the value of having extra missiles against the value of being in the fight for longer and not giving the team another point. It's an interesting decision.

Of course, it's rather overshadowed by the whole infinite lives mechanic. I'm willing to bet most players don't play like I do, and for them it's not an interesting decision at all -- if you're out of ammo, barrel roll into the nearest asteroid. In short, the mechanic of limited ammunition, while existent, is not important.

The base reason you're advocating for literally infinite ammo is -- I think, correct me if I'm wrong -- because the current game has essentially infinite ammo. There's fairly little opportunity cost to reloading, outside of a close TDM match. Changing the number under the icon to an infinity symbol is, in a lot of cases, merely a formality.

If I were redesigning the game from the ground up -- which is basically what we're talking about here anyway, given the importance of things like double volley in the current meta -- I'd have made it something like three lives, all on different ships. That makes ammo more valuable. It makes you ask questions like "do I really need a missile lock on this guy, or can I get him with blasters alone?" It eliminates things like spamming clusters on bombers for kind of joke damage compared to just holding down LMB. It re-introduces mindgaming with missile locks, something I haven't really seen since the early part of early access when people thought ammo limitations were a serious consideration. (Now it's more like, if I have a lock, why not fire? What's the worst that can happen?)

This would impact a lot of other things. Pikes and Quells are suddenly significantly more powerful in the hands of a skilled player who can take advantage of having essentially double the missile capacity in addition to double the missile versatility. "Pit stops" in the form of repair drones and possibly NPC refill stations become tactically important decisions, especially if refill time is slowed from live. Spare ammo from your crew member becomes more valuable, as do certain upgrade choices.

Kills, of course, become much more important, since that ace can only come back twice instead of as many times as you pressure him. Build choice becomes more important, since you can be forced to play a sub-optimal ship (e.g. a bomber in TDM, or a barrel roll scout in domination). Aces shift from players who can fly one ship very well to players who can fly their chosen ships very well in a number of different circumstances. Defensive play becomes more important, which I think is more realistic (after all, if I were flying an X-wing, my number one priority would be making it so I could keep flying my X-wing).

I think that would be an interesting way to play the game, even if it's not realistically likely to happen.

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Or find a yellow powerup. Also realistic. I remember when Luke Skywalker got damage overcharge, who can forget that cinematic moment?
lol powerups
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
02.23.2014 , 09:44 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Overhaul?

Here's your changes:


The guy who gives you 25% ammo instead increases missile and torpedo damage by 3%.
The magazine maxes out, not at 50% more ammo, but at 6% more missile damage.


Overhaul done!
Like it or not, this is a big change. People are just flat out not going to realize what's up, and that's bad for business, so BioWare's not going to do it. I mean, look at how many people were surprised by minimum railgun charge and distortion field changes, and those were mentioned in patch notes for like two weeks in advance.

I don't disagree that it would be as simple as that, though.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

CaliJoe's Avatar


CaliJoe
02.23.2014 , 10:06 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Royox View Post
Yes. I know, bombers can do that. But it's not enought. They are our only source of regen our missiles and you don't even know if that "repair drone" will refill you or only heal.

It has to be another way to recover our missiles with the bombers...but I'm out of ideas.
I'm guessing you have not played with a bomber w/ a repair drone as of yet. Besides, I have no idea which ship specifically you are discussing. Are you speaking about in general? "More ammo regen" ? It's called power management. It's called do the dailies/weekly off the pvp stand. You can put more points into your ammo section of your ship of choosing.

Wait till the reticle is red to fire. Follow the lead circle to help with hits.

We don't need Rambo in space.
Wild speculation on forums? When does that happen? The Harbinger - Fumanshu Legacy
Repub: Jafaean(Arms), Zelgen(Artifice), Espellah(Cyber), Jabender(Synthweave)
Imp: Vindrock(Armor), Antshell(BioChem), Li'Larish, Kenevil

DEATHICIDE's Avatar


DEATHICIDE
02.23.2014 , 10:20 PM | #15
They would have to tweak rocket pods a bit because the ability to endlessly spam those babies is a bit much, otherwise, ammo is really not much of an issue.
What this limitation does do is force me to go blasters only after I have rampaged all over my opponents enough to actually run dry, and forces scouts to control their spam.

Otherwise this mechanic really doesn't come into play much at all.

What is better though, the ability to spam rocket pods and cluster missiles like a crazy man with finite ammo, or the ability to spray endlessly but with less impact?

Tough call.
Republic Diehard-Imperial Diehard-Founder Of The Old Republic

The Most Valuable - Devastator - Fleet Admiral - Space Magnate

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
02.23.2014 , 10:44 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by CaliJoe View Post
I'm guessing you have not played with a bomber w/ a repair drone as of yet.
Why? Everything he said about repair drones is completely true.

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Besides, I have no idea which ship specifically you are discussing. Are you speaking about in general? "More ammo regen" ? It's called power management. It's called do the dailies/weekly off the pvp stand. You can put more points into your ammo section of your ship of choosing.
You realize that's only true for two ships, and only if you choose the bad option for that component, right?

Or are you confused into thinking that we're discussing weapon power pool instead of secondary weapon ammunition?
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Verain's Avatar


Verain
02.23.2014 , 11:02 PM | #17
Oddly, you CAN get an ammo magazine for everything but scouts! It's silliest on the type 1 gunship (no ammo at all, though I bet that railgun was ammo limited in alpha or something), but it's poor on the type 2 gunship and both bombers.


It's ideal on any ship with double volley clusters, as it uses the base value to calculate. I would say it's really only worth using on them at all.

CaliJoe's Avatar


CaliJoe
02.23.2014 , 11:42 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
Why? Everything he said about repair drones is completely true.



You realize that's only true for two ships, and only if you choose the bad option for that component, right?

Or are you confused into thinking that we're discussing weapon power pool instead of secondary weapon ammunition?
Op said : "you don't even know if that "repair drone" will refill you or only heal."

Keyword * if * as in speculation.

The discussion is weapons/lasers, correct? In the minor section of the components is what I am referring to. The recharge weapons tier unlock.
Wild speculation on forums? When does that happen? The Harbinger - Fumanshu Legacy
Repub: Jafaean(Arms), Zelgen(Artifice), Espellah(Cyber), Jabender(Synthweave)
Imp: Vindrock(Armor), Antshell(BioChem), Li'Larish, Kenevil