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Spoilers.. WHO IS THE BETRAYER? want your opinions.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Spoilers.. WHO IS THE BETRAYER? want your opinions.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
08.17.2017 , 04:18 AM | #291
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
i never stated she would fall to the dark side and after decades of service to the jedi she won't soon forget something so close to her that has been her only stability, but my elderly father is starting to forget things, he plays sudoku and reads a lot of books and yet in all that he no longer has the capacity to think differently, hes more isolated from everyone else as he has ever been in his life. satele is only a few years younger but it's just a natural part of aging and being on her own she will end up getting in her own way and forgetting things because she has nothing outside a few dusty books.

it would be easy for her to confuse things because she sees things differently.
Difference of opinion, I guess. The brain does change as you grow older, but 60s really isn't 'elderly' and people's critical thinking skills and the level of confusion they have are very variable. I once knew of a woman who got her Masters degree when she was 88 years old, and doing a thesis at that age on her own certainly required a lot of critical thinking skills.

Plus, Satele does have the Force on her side. Considering some of the Jedi on the Council have been hundreds of years old, they don't seem to go too dotty. And she's having discussions with Marr, so she's not totally alone.

Celise's Avatar


Celise
08.17.2017 , 10:54 PM | #292
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Difference of opinion, I guess. The brain does change as you grow older, but 60s really isn't 'elderly' and people's critical thinking skills and the level of confusion they have are very variable. I once knew of a woman who got her Masters degree when she was 88 years old, and doing a thesis at that age on her own certainly required a lot of critical thinking skills.

Plus, Satele does have the Force on her side. Considering some of the Jedi on the Council have been hundreds of years old, they don't seem to go too dotty. And she's having discussions with Marr, so she's not totally alone.
did the elderly woman have help getting to that point where she could study for her masters? i would find it hard that any typical elderly person would be able to keep up with the demands of completing a masters degree on their own, let alone focusing for very long before falling asleep. not to belittle her efforts but it doesn't seem entirely plausible without someone to help her get to her masters and help her focus for a bit after waking up.

satele is only at the start of that process, it usually strikes around 65-75 years of age an advances from there and i already mentioned beyond values and beliefs that there is very little for Marr and Satele to discuss. Marr isn't the type to be so open about himself and Satele has always had this pride about herself that wouldn't allow her to let her guard down around a sith.

some jedi, yes, some jedi can live a long time and who knows how long kel'dor, twi'lek and togruta can live for, but humans live roughly between 75-110 years of age, thats just a fact we haven't overcome and if you do make examples please don't use one case as a majority for your arguement in return. besides darkside corruption that can make a person live an unnaturally long lifespan, it also have major negative effects on the body of that person.

However Jedi have never used such means to extend their lifespan.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
08.18.2017 , 12:23 AM | #293
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
did the elderly woman have help getting to that point where she could study for her masters? i would find it hard that any typical elderly person would be able to keep up with the demands of completing a masters degree on their own, let alone focusing for very long before falling asleep. not to belittle her efforts but it doesn't seem entirely plausible without someone to help her get to her masters and help her focus for a bit after waking up.

satele is only at the start of that process, it usually strikes around 65-75 years of age an advances from there and i already mentioned beyond values and beliefs that there is very little for Marr and Satele to discuss. Marr isn't the type to be so open about himself and Satele has always had this pride about herself that wouldn't allow her to let her guard down around a sith.

some jedi, yes, some jedi can live a long time and who knows how long kel'dor, twi'lek and togruta can live for, but humans live roughly between 75-110 years of age, thats just a fact we haven't overcome and if you do make examples please don't use one case as a majority for your arguement in return. besides darkside corruption that can make a person live an unnaturally long lifespan, it also have major negative effects on the body of that person.

However Jedi have never used such means to extend their lifespan.
*shrug* As I said, we'll have to agree to disagree. You used a personal example, so did I. I've worked with a number of people in their 80s that were still very sharp. The woman I'm mentioning actually did not have help - she had no children, and she was able to live alone until she died (over 100) and manage a business until she was in her 90s. The only real obvious sign of decline she had was a physical frailty as she reached the 100-year mark. In her case I think it was a combination of good genes and good choices throughout her life. She had several siblings who also lived with all their faculties intact until their 80s and 90s without coming down with cancer, dementia or anything else (good genes) and she'd been very physically active and avoided smoking/drugs/drinking for her entire life (good choices).

I personally think we'd be surprised by Marr and Satele's conversations. If nothing else, if they spent a month reading and arguing over each of the books in that camp they'd be there for a while, and since they apparently were able to see the Outlander's activities they probably had a lot to discuss about it all.

I think

captainwesson's Avatar


captainwesson
08.18.2017 , 12:45 AM | #294
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
*shrug* As I said, we'll have to agree to disagree. You used a personal example, so did I. I've worked with a number of people in their 80s that were still very sharp. The woman I'm mentioning actually did not have help - she had no children, and she was able to live alone until she died (over 100) and manage a business until she was in her 90s. The only real obvious sign of decline she had was a physical frailty as she reached the 100-year mark. In her case I think it was a combination of good genes and good choices throughout her life. She had several siblings who also lived with all their faculties intact until their 80s and 90s without coming down with cancer, dementia or anything else (good genes) and she'd been very physically active and avoided smoking/drugs/drinking for her entire life (good choices).

I personally think we'd be surprised by Marr and Satele's conversations. If nothing else, if they spent a month reading and arguing over each of the books in that camp they'd be there for a while, and since they apparently were able to see the Outlander's activities they probably had a lot to discuss about it all.

I think
She's also been cooking (maybe) and eating whatever wildlife is on Odessen. Maybe eating years worth of shadow creatures takes its toll on her mind. Maybe she undercooked it once or twice, got sick, got a bad fever that messed with her head...and no doctors around to treat weird shadow diseases.

Celise's Avatar


Celise
08.18.2017 , 01:00 AM | #295
Quote: Originally Posted by captainwesson View Post
She's also been cooking (maybe) and eating whatever wildlife is on Odessen. Maybe eating years worth of shadow creatures takes its toll on her mind. Maybe she undercooked it once or twice, got sick, got a bad fever that messed with her head...and no doctors around to treat weird shadow diseases.
never know . it could also explain why others think she would be capable of falling to the dark side.

Mzuta's Avatar


Mzuta
08.21.2017 , 12:24 PM | #296
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
thats the senile part, she spent 5 years waiting for the outlander on odessen, with only her transport and camp and long periods between dealing with the spirit of darth marr, i mean what could they have to discuss beyond their beliefs and actions, that can all be said and done in a few weeks at most.

Satele has been alone all that time and without outside stimuli to keep her going, she would say things like this that the force is an emotion in the same way i would say the internet is a personality, it cooperates with you only when it wants to. she wouldn't have much brain training either beyond her usual exercises and even those would end up like you are on autopilot because it's the exact same routine each time.

people tend to forget things without some form of brain training and at her age it wouldn't be difficult for her to lose more than a few memories or see things from a specific point of view. and because there is no one around to keep you honest or push you along, satele may have gotten a bit arrogant as well because there is no one else to look out for her so she needs to think she has done well.
I would like to see them tapping into their lineage from kotor it is said that the females in the shan lineage tend to walk the edges closer to the darkside starting with bastila's mother.

What affect did the darkside have on satele?
If you click the books she studied you know she studied the dark side being instructed by Darth Marr. Is she more powerful? If you try to strike her down she disappears like a shade stalker. So I would think so.

Is theoron more force sensitive than he let on?
There is a bit of evidence to believe so. (He's a spy who really knows why the jedi didn't work out.) I.e. Imp agent story has an opt, to have a certain jedi join the SIS among other options. He also commanded the Sixth Line (Jedi commandos kept secret from the jedi) on ziost. Also Lana a powerful force wielder (with a very natural affinity with the force) in her own right couldn't enter and read Theron's mind during SOR. It might not only be the cybernetics.

Next, revan became whole and became "one with the force" ...or so we believe. Maybe he met with Satele on odessen with a warning of what the outlander might become and knowing that valkorion shared power with the outlander has convinced a group of people that the outlander is the new threat.

Something else to ponder, not all the revanites are gone. As was saif both imperial and republic forces kept a presence on the planet but after both sides dealing with the first invasion by arcan and thexan, arcan's subsequent invasion then domination of the core worlds, then vaylin's terror campaign. There is a possibility that both sides pulled some forces from yavin and left a light presence on Yavin allowing revanites to escape and regroup somewhere else, and maybe rejoin with someone else.

Lastly, and is the group that would fit theron the most ..with all the chaos in the galaxy. Maybe the star cabal has returned to bring stability to the galaxy.

BlueShiftRecall's Avatar


BlueShiftRecall
08.21.2017 , 02:37 PM | #297
Quote: Originally Posted by Mzuta View Post
Is theoron more force sensitive than he let on?
Always thought that would be a cool concept to explore, a little like Raina from the IA story, Theron actually turns out to be a Sith in hiding all along, take that Satele.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkelefantos View Post
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Myrmicus's Avatar


Myrmicus
08.21.2017 , 10:41 PM | #298
My bet on one of your officers... You know, those to whom you give some boxees to get those wonderful pieces of armor ? They are blindly loyal from start, they are important to the alliance and one of them betraying you is bound to hurt the Alliance far more than Theron or Lana.

Since it's not a Hutt, we know one that can't be the betrayer.
That leaves three. If I have to take a pick, I'd say Sana Rae : she have visions and works with a room full of bickering Jedis and Sith. She could see more chaos in the Alliance than its worth and decide to end it for the greater good.