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8 vs 8 ranked: Sign if you agree this needs to be done!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
8 vs 8 ranked: Sign if you agree this needs to be done!

Yamahara's Avatar


Yamahara
07.21.2019 , 06:45 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
How could you ask for 8v8 ranked when 4v4 ranked participation is seemingly suffering from a total lack of population? Also, nice necro
It's not the lack of population that is the problem with team ranked arena's. It's the lack of pvp'ers willing to commit to it. Most of these pvp guilds you see in reg's have given up on ranked after a short time due to seasoned teams destroying them in ranked. What they don't understand is that communication,coordination, and all of that takes time when it comes to doing teams. The population is there, the patience isn't.
Lukewarm Tauntauns

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
07.21.2019 , 11:37 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Yamahara View Post
It's not the lack of population that is the problem with team ranked arena's. It's the lack of pvp'ers willing to commit to it. Most of these pvp guilds you see in reg's have given up on ranked after a short time due to seasoned teams destroying them in ranked. What they don't understand is that communication,coordination, and all of that takes time when it comes to doing teams. The population is there, the patience isn't.
Assume you're right, that there just arent people queuing ranked. That is still a population issue in ranked pvp. For the record in the very short time I was doing group ranked, my group hardly got destroyed. I just found the experience more infuriating and frustrating than fun, so I stopped doing it. The point was simply if people arent queuing ranked, why'd they being back an even bigger ranked format (and of course why necro a petition from years ago)

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.21.2019 , 11:57 PM | #43
What we needed or need is a 8v8 yolo queue. Team 8v8 just isn’t really viable anymore (maybe).

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
07.22.2019 , 12:47 AM | #44
No.

we have 8v8 challenges. stop chasing dead storys of expansions gone.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
07.22.2019 , 06:28 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Yamahara View Post
It's not the lack of population that is the problem with team ranked arena's. It's the lack of pvp'ers willing to commit to it. Most of these pvp guilds you see in reg's have given up on ranked after a short time due to seasoned teams destroying them in ranked. What they don't understand is that communication,coordination, and all of that takes time when it comes to doing teams. The population is there, the patience isn't.
I agree with you here, so what comes next isn't a refuation.

My problem with teams (this goes back to 8v8) is not that my team will be destroyed by a clearly superior team. It's that the clearly superior team is what my team is going to face 9.5/10 times we queue. I would like to earn I nice pretty rating -- who wouldn't? But the population in queue was never -- ever -- such that similarly skilled teams faced off regularly. Even when everyone transferred to Pot5, the teams barely had time to settle into any sort of a pecking order before BW announced the death of 8v8.

Before the Pot5 renaissance, the guild that established the best 8-man team actively recruited the best players from every other guild, thus ensuring that no new teams ever established a foothold on the server. That's good for their dominance, but it absolutely killed competition on the server. Despite having more than enough members to field two teams, the aforementioned top guild refused to put players in the queue against their picked squad. My point is that while your explanation of human nature (lack of patience) is absolutely true, there's this side of human nature too, in which good guilds pilfer players from up and coming guilds but never queue more than their one team, thus stifling the queue.

The solo queue is flawed in may ways, but it does seem to circumvent the reticence of guildies from playing against each other in rated competition.

Lastly, there comes a point where skill disparity is so great that one learns (next to) nothing competing against a vastly superior opponent. Like, if what the other team is doing is so coordinated and precised that it looks like magic (use the force, Luke!), then you're not going to pick up anything useful.

/2cents
Krack

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
07.22.2019 , 10:11 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
snip
The issues you lay out are symptomatic of a population problem:

I.e. what does the system do if 8 similarly skilled players are not currently queueing? It has 3 choices essentially:
1. Wait and only form a match when 8 similarly skilled players are on
2. Match the 4 highest together and the 4 lowest
3. In an attempt to make some kind of balance, distribute the bad players equally among the good.

By most peoples accounts the current system is trying to use option 3 to balance fairness with queue quantity.

If the system can't find 8 people to do a match, how is it supposed to find 16?

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
07.22.2019 , 02:51 PM | #47
I was trying to get at the fact that it's a tail chasing cycle (or maybe a snake devouring its tail). One leads to the other which leads to one.

4's teams a generally more set, so you'd think there would be less "guild solidarity" in terms of avoiding going against your own guild. but honestly, the only time I'm aware of that happening is when a guild plays kickball amongst themselves.

which reminds me, they're actually doing kickball matches on DM. that's really cool, imo.
Krack

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.23.2019 , 04:56 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
No.

we have 8v8 challenges. stop chasing dead storys of expansions gone.
8v8 challengers don’t help yolo players

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.23.2019 , 05:07 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
The issues you lay out are symptomatic of a population problem:

I.e. what does the system do if 8 similarly skilled players are not currently queueing? It has 3 choices essentially:
1. Wait and only form a match when 8 similarly skilled players are on
2. Match the 4 highest together and the 4 lowest
3. In an attempt to make some kind of balance, distribute the bad players equally among the good.

By most peoples accounts the current system is trying to use option 3 to balance fairness with queue quantity.

If the system can't find 8 people to do a match, how is it supposed to find 16?
It doesn’t need to pick the 4 best and 4 lowest for each team. That isn’t a good match at all.

It could just pick the top 16 people in the queue and then spread them over both teams in a 1 for 1 type system. Then the next 16 players in skill and so on.
Eventually the lowest skilled players should be all together and the highest skilled should all be together. And the medium skilled players would be spread between the two groups if there aren’t enough people in the queue or if there are enough people, the medium guys would mostly be together.
If you have a premade be a full pug team, then the pug team gets more if the highest rated players to off set the “possible” premade advantage.
Then the only time it should have the highest skilled and lowest skilled in the same match would be when there are less than 32 people in the queue. At which point it should probably start popping 4v4 to keep the different skilled groups separated more.
That’s how I always envisaged reg pvp match making should work. Not this system where it puts 2 high skilled players on teams with 6 of the lowest skilled players and then expect them to carry the team against a Premade of medium skilled players.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
07.23.2019 , 05:51 AM | #50
Ah whatever,

/signed
Merovejec
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