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Time to end Biochem reusables


Chunkie

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I am a 400/400/400 bioc/dip/bioa

 

I don't mind removing reusable myself as long as the mats needed are better tuned the exotech adrenals so not worth crafting for personal use with the amount of paste they require.

 

Personally I think a good middle ground is that each stim, adrenal, and medpack have 2 schematics per quality level one that requires the user have biochem and one that doesn't. The one that requires a biochem to use would have less mat requirements preserving the idea that devs originally said that biochem should save money not be more powerful and the ones that do not require biochem would require normal mats.

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The nasty truth is that meds, adrenals, and stims are not expensive to make.

 

not true, not true at all. by the time you're making your 400 recipes you've spent a s'it ton of cash on getting the stims you want. to make the reusables takes alot of time. and alot of credits. is there a price upgrade from what we pay to make them than to what we sell them for? of course.. :p they arent cheap. If you think they are you are'nt a biochem, and if you are you're a low level one. not to gripe on you particularly but you're wrong.

Edited by Macabakur
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Reusable stim/med = permanent benefit right?

 

How about you craft a chest piece, mod, barrel, blaster and equip it; it will persist through death and 2 hours later it vanishes...

 

Sounds like your logic on nerfing biochem is somewhat flawed.

 

Except that only biochems can use that reuseable stim. Everybody else is stuck with a chest piece, mod, barrel, blaster, etc. that poofs 2 hours later. (or in the case of adrenals, 3 minutes)

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They need to make, with the costs to make one, the usable versions come in stacks when crafted- right now it costs about as much to make an adrenal that'd get used once as it does to craft a level 49 purple piece of gear- it's just way too costly.
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Just wanted to say something!

 

1. spotted some post about!

the cosumables have been to expensive on the gtm just one input there it is to easy to farm credits in this game!

 

2. They should never have given the game the daylie vendor, who are selling end mod's for customization gear. Cause that broke the other crafting profession, which made biochem the only viable choice! IMO

 

3. By removing the reusable the biochemist' will prob keep everything they make for them selves, and no one will get access to the craftable consumables.. And by removing the only biochem can use the reusable will also mean less profit being an biochemist! And all other crafting profession can still earn credits by selling mods, crystals, armor etc.

 

4. Just and idea and thought, give each crafting profession something that only that craftable proffesion can use.

 

Examples.

Make the artificer able to make only artificer crystal's and enhancement, and hilt's.

Make the cyber tech able to make only cyber tech mods, and armor mods.

Make both synthesizer and armor tech craftable augmentation slots, for there own gear.

Make the arms tech able to make arms tech only off hands, which are modifiable, and barrel only useable for arms tech.

 

This is just some suggestions, how to make some buffers for the other craftable's out there.

 

For me it isn't a mmorpg, without each crafting profession in game have something unique to offer as crafter profession you are picking up.

Edited by Umerisa
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Just a clarification, since I'm seeing a bit of misinformation around it.

 

We do not plan to remove the reusable stims. What we said at the Guild Summit is that we're going to phase them out - meaning while the itemization stat budget increases and new tiers of items are introduced, we're not intending to grow the reusable stims along with that at this time.

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Just a clarification, since I'm seeing a bit of misinformation around it.

 

We do not plan to remove the reusable stims. What we said at the Guild Summit is that we're going to phase them out - meaning while the itemization stat budget increases and new tiers of items are introduced, we're not intending to grow the reusable stims along with that at this time.

 

Heh heh, George my friend; this only makes things even more vague :p

 

The real question people would like answered is if there will ever be better reusable items that Biochems can make (for personal use) in the future or if it stops at what we can make now and that Biochems can never RE the new recipes into reusable versions anymore.

 

But the real question is 'Why?'. Why the intention remove the perk of a Biochem having reusables? They were not overpowered or anything; just a nice perk to have. So why not give similar perks to the other Crew Skills so all will have a perk for choosing a crafting skill? Now it seems the only benefit of having any Crew Skill is to become a production line factory and nothing more.

 

Lastly I hope you guys will also increase the number of items created per craft as at present time it takes a ridiculous amount of time and mats just to make a single medpack. If anything, consumables should be made in batches.

 

It's not heroic when I have to gather flowers all day just so my guild has enough medpacks/stims for an Ops.

Edited by Danakar
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My biggest issue is your charts at the guild summit showed that biochem is NOT the most used crafting now by far (artificer was) so why continue to nerf us? If you are buffing all the other end-game crafting, in the future biochem should get access to better stims to scale up their one useful thing (BiS Rakata implants are from dailies not from biochem so we really only get the reusable stims and resuable medpacks for our end-game utility).
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Just a clarification, since I'm seeing a bit of misinformation around it.

 

We do not plan to remove the reusable stims. What we said at the Guild Summit is that we're going to phase them out - meaning while the itemization stat budget increases and new tiers of items are introduced, we're not intending to grow the reusable stims along with that at this time.

 

Heh, "at this time". Personally, I'll just keep Biochem. To much is in flux at the moment and changes too regularly to make an informed opinion. Once the 1.2 changes kick in, it'll take a few weeks to settle down. If there are more changes than "phasing out of Reusables (and while it's probably an oversight, the quote oddly only mentions Stims, nor Medpacks or adrenals)", then it might balance out. If not, then it's going to fall so far behind other crafts that even 'they' will admit it needs something else.

 

Then I'd guess we'll either see realstic quantities of consumables produced compared to resource cost, or a return to re-usable items (I can dream... the former seems more likely).

 

Personally, I think a much better fix for reusable stims is to let them be used on other people (who meet the level requirements). Then a Ops/Flashpoint group only needs 1 biochem to benefit from cheap reusable stims, and people don't feel obliged to run Biochem as the best end-game crew skill. The dedicated ops people will still get the better consumable blues, and a biochemist can buff the rest.

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Just a clarification, since I'm seeing a bit of misinformation around it.

 

We do not plan to remove the reusable stims. What we said at the Guild Summit is that we're going to phase them out - meaning while the itemization stat budget increases and new tiers of items are introduced, we're not intending to grow the reusable stims along with that at this time.

 

This makes no sense tbqh.

 

Phasing out means removing, eventually.

 

Tired of wasting time and effort on shiz just so you key board jokies can remove it.

 

Try fixing your stuff first.

 

Easy fix would be to remove BioChem requirement from re-usables so more peeps can use them.

 

DUH!

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It's perfectly clear.

 

Starting in 1.2, and regularly as the game is updated, more powerful stims and medpacks will be added to Biochem. The purple versions of these items will NOT be infinite use.

 

Infinite use stims and medpacks will remain in the game, but will be inferior in effectiveness to the limited use items.

 

Thus, they are phased out as people will no loner want them.

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If they do phase out consumables, hopefully they compensate with some sort of convenience mechanism, because it's going to be pretty annoying constantly remaking an item, collecting mats on the GTN, and using the stim as the 2hr timer is about to wear off.

 

The current BOM (bill of materials) for a one-use item is way too high.

 

The reusables are really nice since you can just fire and forget, and you don't need to worry about maximizing the uptime. Same goes for the adrenals.

Edited by Kllashaa
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Just a clarification, since I'm seeing a bit of misinformation around it.

 

We do not plan to remove the reusable stims. What we said at the Guild Summit is that we're going to phase them out - meaning while the itemization stat budget increases and new tiers of items are introduced, we're not intending to grow the reusable stims along with that at this time.

 

Translation: We can't figure out how to make the other crew skills useful, so we've decided to make Biochem useless too.

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BW Balance guy 1 " Oh some noobs QQ about stims they need to be balanced ASAP "

BW Balance Guy 2 " Didnt we all ready Nurf them to hell ? "

BW Balance Guy 1 " Yes but, more nurf, ARGH MORE NURFS !!!! the crew skill it was working lets make it pointless like the others now ! and the QQ noobs will be happy YEY ! "

 

Am waiting for them to remove it completely and in its place crew skills for the new race PANDAS :eek:

 

:(:(:(

 

Can just see it now http://www.n3rdgazm.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/animals_star_wars.jpg

Edited by WNxAbaddon
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Well "Phasing out" usually means a planned removal in my part of the world , but semantics aside, the purple re-usables constitute the bulk of Biochem's armory of purple recipes.

 

What other craft has purples with lower values than blues?

 

Biochem: Blues>Purples>Greens.

 

Other crafts: Purples>Blues>Greens.

 

Ah, I hear you cry, but they are re-useable.

 

Well what other craft produces items which aren't?

 

You don't have to pop a new crystal in your Light Sabre or Gun every day do you? Or replace your armour mods? In fact if you get a lvl 11 orange at lvl 11 you can use it right through to end game.

 

All you do is upgrade as you need better gear, you don't have to keep buying a full new set of gear everyday.

 

So how is making the 'purple' re-usable Biochems not linked to having the Biochem skill, going to kill the game economy or ruin gameplay? If anything it opens the market to Biochemists and free's them from constantly having to 'farm' enough mats to be able to produce 'consumables' for everyones needs. ie more time to actually play the game.

 

In fact all the Biochem 'consumables' should be re-usable and useable by anyone , just of greater difficulty and cost to obtain the 'best in slot'.

Edited by Micadog
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Translation: We can't figure out how to make the other crew skills useful, so we've decided to make Biochem useless too.

 

QFT.

 

 

Question for BW:

 

What is exactly the appeal of sticking to (or even having) a craft skill come 1.2, if you guys are moving away from crafter-exclusive perks and items that require the craft skill to be used?

Edited by Urkanan
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Dam. I guess I get 5 clicky slots back at some point. The reusables are basically a time-saver/credit saver for me. Going to have to budget in some time/companion management now to get crafted stuff ready for operations. You deliberately make your sub-based game tedious at your own risk, Bioware, beaware :D

 

Swtor: Now With Added Grind!--applies to this change as well as "making pvp armor non viable for pve endgame". I don't know how many good ideas and player-friendly design features they can smash in a single update, but there has to be a record here somewhere.

 

to my 5 rakata buddies, farewell. we hardly knew ye before thou were't ripped from us, to favor bringing tedium into entertainment:

 

Medpack, the chicken soup to my huttball

Power adrenal (pvp/pve), so young, yet so full of potential

Armor adrenal (pvp), stubborn, but a hard worker

Cunning/pwr stim (pve), always there with that extra effort

Endurance/def stim (pvp), ah, stim, you kept me strong in those trying times.

 

Present, arms!

Order, arms!*

 

~taps~

 

*ok, so I don't recall exactly how it goes

Edited by OldSwab
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BW has already state that most players are not rich and most have less than 500k of credits so to fix that we are going to make players BUY non re usable products..............

 

Freaking amazing.

 

Amazing that people get paid to think up this crap.

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Translation: We can't figure out how to make the other crew skills useful, so we've decided to make Biochem useless too.

 

NO, the translation is they DON'T WANT any tradeskill to give an endgame advantage over someone without it.

 

It's in the original design documents: Crafting is intended to be an OPTIONAL activity. Ergo no craft should give an advantage that cannot be obtained/bought by a non-crafter.

 

Biochem was broken. The developers know that, and those who know what the intention was know that.

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NO, the translation is they DON'T WANT any tradeskill to give an endgame advantage over someone without it.

 

It's in the original design documents: Crafting is intended to be an OPTIONAL activity. Ergo no craft should give an advantage that cannot be obtained/bought by a non-crafter.

 

Biochem was broken. The developers know that, and those who know what the intention was know that.

That can actually be accomplished with credits--and actually you get better stats buying the crafteds than using the reusables.

 

The fact that it takes a ridiculous amount of credits to do it was the problem, caused by:

 

a) how long it takes to produce crafted medpacks (etc)

b) how long it takes to gather the mats for crafted medpacks (etc)

c) how few you get in return for medpack crafting missions

d) the cost in credits per crafted medpacks

 

Their solution is taking away an innovative and convenient player benefit, and substituting some of the "gold standard mmo of tedium and grind".

 

Bad day for frog dogs everywhere. They seem to be giving up on the small number features they innovated a little bit with, and moving more towards a light-saber skinned WoW.

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NO, the translation is they DON'T WANT any tradeskill to give an endgame advantage over someone without it.

 

It's in the original design documents: Crafting is intended to be an OPTIONAL activity. Ergo no craft should give an advantage that cannot be obtained/bought by a non-crafter.

 

Biochem was broken. The developers know that, and those who know what the intention was know that.

 

 

You conveniently overlook the fact that Synthweaving, Armormech and Cybertech can craft BOP Best in Slot augmented Rakata pieces.

 

 

 

IMO either give all crewskills exclusive end game perks, or remove them from all.

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NO, the translation is they DON'T WANT any tradeskill to give an endgame advantage over someone without it.

 

It's in the original design documents: Crafting is intended to be an OPTIONAL activity. Ergo no craft should give an advantage that cannot be obtained/bought by a non-crafter.

 

Biochem was broken. The developers know that, and those who know what the intention was know that.

 

Except the part that they're 'phasing out' is the convenience part, not the supposedly overpowered part. All they're doing is making Biochem more tedious, something they claim to want to be reducing in the game instead of adding. There is no 'end game advantage' to reusables because they aren't any more powerful than the consumables.

 

I can tell you the only reason I have Biochem is because of the reusables, because i find it tedious and annoying to have to constantly make new stacks of stims and medpacks. I don't care about selling items. I'm not in it to make credits. I don't care if the top end consumables are more powerful. I'm not in it to try to be more powerful than anyone. I'm just in it so I don't have to keep making these things constantly. I'm sure if Artificers had to keep making crystals to use every 2 hours, they wouldn't be happy about that either.

 

If a lot of people are taking Biochem just for the reusables, one would think Bioware would get that people don't like the tedium involved in constantly resupplying stacks of stems/medpacks. Reusables hurt absolutely no one. They are not more powerful than consumables. If you're getting pwned in pvp because someone is using reusables, you'll get pwned even harder when they're 'phased out' because the consumables are even more powerful.

 

Right now reusables follow the original design documents exactly: they are nothing more than convenience, not additional power. That's pretty much the definition of optional. To phase out reusables is exactly the worst thing that could be done.

Edited by Neamhan
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