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The problem with a lot of classes in PVP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The problem with a lot of classes in PVP

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.08.2019 , 09:27 AM | #1
A lot of classes in PvP are too vulnerable once they are hardstunned. They are forced to take a lot of damage and unless they have breaker they cannot escape. Since Bioware has removed stun DR on a lot of classes, we (as a community) need a new alternative to adjust to this stun lock meta. One suggestion to fixing this is allowing players to avoid hardstuns by adding in extra movement abilities or giving every class a similar dcd that Operatives/Snipers have which allows them to avoid hardstuns if they time their abilitiy right ( their roll abilitiy). This would fix the issue but would make the game too monotonous. Another suggestion is giving all players the abiltiy to choose whether or not they want to take a stun DR set bonus (2-piece) or amplifier in replacement of something else. Again would help with the problem but is boring and does not make the combat/gameplay more exciting. Another suggestion is giving weaker classes in PvP; such as DPS Powertech/Vanguard, Assassins/Shadows, Sorcerers/Sages more movement and creative evade abilities that allow them to avoid hardstuns and escape/prevent pin-downs. One thing that I was thinking about is the abilitiy to clone your toon or something that allows sorcerers to place LOS objects while in a warzone (probably reaching but it is creative).

We need creative and alternative ideas in order to combat the stun meta which can ruin a PvP experience for a lot of players.

Zurules's Avatar


Zurules
06.08.2019 , 11:39 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Delani View Post
A lot of classes in PvP are too vulnerable once they are hardstunned. They are forced to take a lot of damage and unless they have breaker they cannot escape. Since Bioware has removed stun DR on a lot of classes, we (as a community) need a new alternative to adjust to this stun lock meta. One suggestion to fixing this is allowing players to avoid hardstuns by adding in extra movement abilities or giving every class a similar dcd that Operatives/Snipers have which allows them to avoid hardstuns if they time their abilitiy right ( their roll abilitiy). This would fix the issue but would make the game too monotonous. Another suggestion is giving all players the abiltiy to choose whether or not they want to take a stun DR set bonus (2-piece) or amplifier in replacement of something else. Again would help with the problem but is boring and does not make the combat/gameplay more exciting. Another suggestion is giving weaker classes in PvP; such as DPS Powertech/Vanguard, Assassins/Shadows, Sorcerers/Sages more movement and creative evade abilities that allow them to avoid hardstuns and escape/prevent pin-downs. One thing that I was thinking about is the abilitiy to clone your toon or something that allows sorcerers to place LOS objects while in a warzone (probably reaching but it is creative).

We need creative and alternative ideas in order to adapt to the stun meta which can ruin a PvP experience for a lot of players.
The whole point of being hardstunned is to make you vulnerable. The alternative to overcome this vulnerability has been since the game first launched, an ability called GUARD (usually from tanks), heals and the big surprise, CC them(AKA YOUR TEAMATES)!

Since the start of the game, they have also added abilities that dodge hardstuns, operative roll, sniper entrench, 6 seconds immunity from stuns for mara and sins (if they chose the utility for it). On top of all this they have the resolve system which after being cced basically twice in a row, you get white barred and cannot be stunned for the duration of it.

This is a team game after all, if you refuse to play it that way in pvp, that's your own problem, not the games.
All Galaxy Hybrid-Clicker Shadow

SlimeyDoom's Avatar


SlimeyDoom
06.08.2019 , 12:53 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
This is a team game after all, if you refuse to play it that way in pvp, that's your own problem, not the games.
This. We can’t make every single dps class an immortal behemoth just because people don’t like getting stunned in regs or solos

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.08.2019 , 03:00 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
The whole point of being hardstunned is to make you vulnerable. The alternative to overcome this vulnerability has been since the game first launched, an ability called GUARD (usually from tanks), heals and the big surprise, CC them(AKA YOUR TEAMATES)!

Since the start of the game, they have also added abilities that dodge hardstuns, operative roll, sniper entrench, 6 seconds immunity from stuns for mara and sins (if they chose the utility for it). On top of all this they have the resolve system which after being cced basically twice in a row, you get white barred and cannot be stunned for the duration of it.

This is a team game after all, if you refuse to play it that way in pvp, that's your own problem, not the games.
I understand your perspective and agree, but stun locking certain classes in the game will ensure death and is imho too strong and occurs too much. The reality of this game is that we need more avenues within the combat system so that people can have a diversified experience and so they believe they can have a “out” to every situation. Since stunlocking as you said is so strong and is supposed to make the target vulnerable, it shouldn’t be as common as it is. Since BioWare is introducing this new idea of “play your way”, I thought this would be the perfect time to mention this because what makes certain classes stronger than others is the ability to stun them or not. If every class has there own, creative and unique way to combat stuns then it will make the pvp more intense and increase the skill gap . Just my opinion.

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.08.2019 , 03:10 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
This. We can’t make every single dps class an immortal behemoth just because people don’t like getting stunned in regs or solos
I don’t want every class to be immune to stuns but I believe that offering players a creative and skillful way to combat stuns will improve the pvp experience. For example, imagine a madness sorc that has the option to create Los object while they are in combat in a war zone. Depending on the player, they could use the los object as a way to run away from their enemy, heal, or even confuse the enemy/ies before they are stunned which may have bought them enough time to regenerate enough health, escape or separate the opposing team before they could gang up on him/her which ultimately increases his/her chances of survival. Just my opinion

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
06.08.2019 , 05:02 PM | #6
minor but related gripe: it would be nice if white bar didn't decay behind spawn gate.

personally, I wouldn't mind the idea that it doesn't decay at all out of combat even though that grants a huge buff to stealth classes. or even if the out of combat decay were 50% the in combat rate, that would be something.

but the fact that it goes away before you're allowed to enter the map is galling more for the principle of the thing.
Krack

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.08.2019 , 06:18 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
minor but related gripe: it would be nice if white bar didn't decay behind spawn gate.

personally, I wouldn't mind the idea that it doesn't decay at all out of combat even though that grants a huge buff to stealth classes. or even if the out of combat decay were 50% the in combat rate, that would be something.

but the fact that it goes away before you're allowed to enter the map is galling more for the principle of the thing.
Be good if you didn’t have to heal in the respawn sometimes or die twice or still have dots on you (pet hate)

As for the stuns, we don’t need more immunities, we just need less mez or we need all soft stuns to apply the same amount of resolve as a hard stun. Which would make people think more before using it.

The problem as I see it is we’ve had an increasing amount of speed / escape abilities over the years and then had more stun, mez, slow affects added to compensate. It’s been an arms race between speed and stuns.
Nearly every class has a speed run like ability. I remember when Inquisitors and Sages were the only ones with speed. Mara’s had predation, but there wasn’t a utility that allowed it to be a free spam every 30secs. Operatives had one roll.

I would love to go back to the 1.2 meta, but without the Mara smash. That was the most fun for me as most classes were balanced and there were minimal stun affects and it let the game flow better.

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.08.2019 , 06:32 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Be good if you didn’t have to heal in the respawn sometimes or die twice or still have dots on you (pet hate)

As for the stuns, we don’t need more immunities, we just need less mez or we need all soft stuns to apply the same amount of resolve as a hard stun. Which would make people think more before using it.

The problem as I see it is we’ve had an increasing amount of speed / escape abilities over the years and then had more stun, mez, slow affects added to compensate. It’s been an arms race between speed and stuns.
Nearly every class has a speed run like ability. I remember when Inquisitors and Sages were the only ones with speed. Mara’s had predation, but there wasn’t a utility that allowed it to be a free spam every 30secs. Operatives had one roll.

I would love to go back to the 1.2 meta, but without the Mara smash. That was the most fun for me as most classes were balanced and there were minimal stun affects and it let the game flow better.
Force speed doesnt make you immune to stuns though, without stun dr classes like sorc, pt and sins lack the dcds and movement evasion against stronger classes. Which leads to inevitable death. I understand this is a team game but in reality, a lot of the situations we find ourselves in are not always circulated around pvp players that are supporting one another so it is up to the devs to take this oppurtunity to evaluate what certain classes are lacking and combat it. From my perspective the ability to endure/ avoid stuns is the main differentiator between the weak and strong classes when compared on a solo level.
Especially classes like merc, sniper and mara. Mercs have enough dcds to the point that their suvivability alone is able to combat a stun lock, also they have reflect if they are taking too much dmg. Maras have a lot of stun immunity and a 75% dmg reduction, again another combat to being stun locked. A good sniper always usuallyt has entrench up which is stun immunity that allows them to use their dcds while an enemy is attacking them along with other utilites that allows them to survive at a much higher rate than i.e pts. DPS sins, sorces and pts (the only classes I am really talking about here) do not have anything to combat being hardstuned. This specifically is what makes PTs so bad unless they are qued with tanks and heals. Atleast sorcers have some type of movement/escape ability and assassins can cloak but it is not enough to match the stronger classes in the game. Once they use breaker and are hard stunned they are facing inevitable death which I am suggesting we should try to fix by accumulating creative and unique ideas that can combat stun locks for the weaker classes.

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.08.2019 , 06:41 PM | #9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2glNrGEKnko&t=2s

If DPS sins were able to move like the ninja class in BDO and everytime they used a dash ability ( on a cooldown of course) they could evade dmg/stuns/ccs then dps sins would be considered a much stronger class (possibly even match the level of merc/mara).

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
06.08.2019 , 07:17 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
minor but related gripe: it would be nice if white bar didn't decay behind spawn gate.

personally, I wouldn't mind the idea that it doesn't decay at all out of combat even though that grants a huge buff to stealth classes. or even if the out of combat decay were 50% the in combat rate, that would be something.

but the fact that it goes away before you're allowed to enter the map is galling more for the principle of the thing.
Wait that white bar is related to stuns? I thought it was the flight-progress-animation for flying down from spawn in ACW. Or maybe the spawn door timer for the other maps?

Or, in other words.... "yeah, that".

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