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Letís Make PVP Better.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Letís Make PVP Better.

DarthEnrique's Avatar


DarthEnrique
05.29.2019 , 07:14 PM | #1
Honestly, PVP is probably one of the most toxic things in this game. Recently it has turned into nothing more than gank fests instead of actual fair and fun matches. There are many teams that go in just for kills and donít do
The objective at all, I actually went into a match where all the team did was farm kills. It was the Alderaan one and they went for none of the turrets just kills and lost the match. Then you got teams thatíll sit there and if itís the one with 3, Alderaan, Yavin 4, Novare Coast and Ancient Hypergate where teams just go for both or all three and some how are able to keep them all. Thereís actual a group or guild on my server that has 4 snipers go into pvp and say it ends up Ancient Hypergate they stalk the respawn point and keep people from getting out. So because of the ganking and unfairness or these farm groups here are some suggestions on how to better PVP in this game.

1. Get rid of kills counting in objection based warzones, leave them solely to the 4v4.
2. Speaking of 4v4 get rid of the ability to tell which player is what role. This pretty much marks healers for ganking and instantly targeted.
3. Get rid of the ability to mark targets in PVP, this should be a PVE only ability. This is the biggest cause of ganking in warzones especially for healers.
4. When it comes to Alderaan, Yavin 4, Novare Coast and Ancient Hypergate, make it where once a team has 1 pylon (Hypergate) or two turrets they are locked from being able to get a 3rd one until the other team takes one away or in the case of Hypergate neither team can have both pylons. This would really make it better for a lot of people to get medals seeing as we now have conquest points based on receiving 8.
5. Give us the ability to choose what maps in pvp we go into. I donít mind Huttball, itís a lot better than Odessen Proving Grounds but it pops up way too much. Personally Iíd rather choose my maps for e.g. Iíd prefer Voidstar, Alderaan, Novare Coast, Ancient Hypergate and the new Huttball map over the rest of the PVP maps so I would prefer to have the ability to choose to queue up for those then the others.
6. Make it where groups canít queue with more then 2 DPS, got it where groups canít queue with 2 tanks or 2 heals now not when thereís more then 2 DPS? What sense does that make?*

So there are my thoughts I am sure there will be people who oppose.

Add-on: I want to help people understand one thing: Iím a conquest person when it comes to this game, if it wasnít for fellow guildies wanting to pvp I wouldnít bother with it because of the issues I mentioned cause getting under 7 medals in a pvp match makes the match not really worth it and I want to enjoy it with my guildies but not with the issues I have mentioned. I like conquest and OPS when it comes to this game but when it comes to these issues honestly you want more people to do it maybe not poo-poo on their suggestions.
*Add-on to the list.
Trying to help my friend Ultimatedshadow out, please click his referral link. Thanks. http://www.swtor.com/r/5YzVTH

DzastinBiberi's Avatar


DzastinBiberi
05.29.2019 , 07:18 PM | #2
So....you were ganked (not a common thing these days) and your solution is to go to forums and demand a change to wz's?

Why not make your own 4 man group and do the objectives or counter those farmers?

One of those snipers is gonna queue alone one day and you can gank him, give him his poison, exact your revenge, channel your hatred into your weapon!

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.29.2019 , 07:28 PM | #3
Oh dear.....

Iím all for making pvp better, but some of these suggestions would just dumb it down even further and make it worse

People already donít play properly, doing some of what the OP suggests would make people care even less.
(Ideaís 1 to 4 are just ridiculous IMO)
You may as well remove all semblance of objectives and turn it into battle royal.

Iím all for choosing maps, but we already donít have enough people anymore. The ďwindowĒ for introducing map choice has passed us by. It should have been introduced 6-7 years ago.

I am for the queue system changing so that Hutt Ball map pops are treated as one. When a HB popped, it would then roll the dice again to determine which map. This would reduce HB pops to be back inline with other maps instead of them being 33-40% of all the map types that pop.

I would also like to see Arena maps put back into the normal rotations during primetime. I was a strong advocate of them reverting in the reg queue to 4v4 when the queue numbers dropped, but I was never an advocate of them removing them from the normal primetime rotation.

DarthEnrique's Avatar


DarthEnrique
05.29.2019 , 07:45 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by DzastinBiberi View Post
So....you were ganked (not a common thing these days) and your solution is to go to forums and demand a change to wzís.

Why not make your own 4 man group and do the objectives or counter those farmers?

One of those snipers is gonna queue alone one day and you can gank him, give him his poison, exact your revenge, channel your hatred into your weapon!
Okay the bold is a bit uncalled for. I have a right to voice my opinion without such statements being made. That is not helpful to the conversation.

To the underlined, this does not fix the issue, Iíve soloed and been grouped with fellow guildies and talking on discord So this will not fix the issues. Nice of you to assume I am just soloing.
Trying to help my friend Ultimatedshadow out, please click his referral link. Thanks. http://www.swtor.com/r/5YzVTH

DarthEnrique's Avatar


DarthEnrique
05.29.2019 , 07:50 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Oh dear.....

Iím all for making pvp better, but some of these suggestions would just dumb it down even further and make it worse

People already donít play properly, doing some of what the OP suggests would make people care even less.
(Ideaís 1 to 4 are just ridiculous IMO)
You may as well remove all semblance of objectives and turn it into battle royal.

Iím all for choosing maps, but we already donít have enough people anymore. The ďwindowĒ for introducing map choice has passed us by. It should have been introduced 6-7 years ago.

I am for the queue system changing so that Hutt Ball map pops are treated as one. When a HB popped, it would then roll the dice again to determine which map. This would reduce HB pops to be back inline with other maps instead of them being 33-40% of all the map types that pop.

I would also like to see Arena maps put back into the normal rotations during primetime. I was a strong advocate of them reverting in the reg queue to 4v4 when the queue numbers dropped, but I was never an advocate of them removing them from the normal primetime rotation.
To the bold: Kills mean nothing if you lose, especially in objective bases warzones such as Odessen, Yavin 4, Alderaan, Novare Coast, etc. I have seen many players say this and I have not been the only one who complains about being on teams that just go after kills and arenít doing the objective.
Trying to help my friend Ultimatedshadow out, please click his referral link. Thanks. http://www.swtor.com/r/5YzVTH

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.29.2019 , 07:57 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthEnrique View Post
To the bold: Kills mean nothing if you lose, especially in objective bases warzones such as Odessen, Yavin 4, Alderaan, Novare Coast, etc. I have seen many players say this and I have not been the only one who complains about being on teams that just go after kills and arenít doing the objective.
If you have ever read any of my thousands of posts and threads on pvp, you would know I agree 100% with this. But your solutions arenít the way to fix it.

Might I suggest you jump over to the pvp forums and have a read of some of the ideas over there.

DarthEnrique's Avatar


DarthEnrique
05.29.2019 , 08:15 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
If you have ever read any of my thousands of posts and threads on pvp, you would know I agree 100% with this. But your solutions arenít the way to fix it.

Might I suggest you jump over to the pvp forums and have a read of some of the ideas over there.
Okay let me give an example: Take Ancient Hypergate, without the kill count and the ability to grab both pylons the teams would be fighting over orb gathering which I am fine with because youíre doing the objective trying to gather more orbs before the other team. Nothing wrong with that.

The turret oriented ones same thing, youíre focused on the objective. Eg. A team gets two of the side turrets but not mid, they are unable to get mid at all leaving them to have to to fend off the team from stealing theirs or stop them from getting mid all together and youíd still need someone there guarding them just in case that does happen, eg. you have 1 person at one of the turrets which is what most teams end up doing two to 4 people come after that turret and take it before you can stop them. But if they donít have mid itís still a fight for both teams to get either mid or the other one back the lock out only happens when 1 team gets both. Honestly itís the teams that go for all 3 that bug me. It really just stops them from being able to take all 3 and allows people to get at least 8 medals.
Trying to help my friend Ultimatedshadow out, please click his referral link. Thanks. http://www.swtor.com/r/5YzVTH

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.29.2019 , 09:46 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthEnrique View Post
Okay let me give an example: Take Ancient Hypergate, without the kill count and the ability to grab both pylons the teams would be fighting over orb gathering which I am fine with because youíre doing the objective trying to gather more orbs before the other team. Nothing wrong with that.

The turret oriented ones same thing, youíre focused on the objective. Eg. A team gets two of the side turrets but not mid, they are unable to get mid at all leaving them to have to to fend off the team from stealing theirs or stop them from getting mid all together and youíd still need someone there guarding them just in case that does happen, eg. you have 1 person at one of the turrets which is what most teams end up doing two to 4 people come after that turret and take it before you can stop them. But if they donít have mid itís still a fight for both teams to get either mid or the other one back the lock out only happens when 1 team gets both. Honestly itís the teams that go for all 3 that bug me. It really just stops them from being able to take all 3 and allows people to get at least 8 medals.
Trying for all 3 is a stupid tactic and more often than not will equal a loss. Itís only when a team is OP compared to the other team that it should be possible to take all 3 and hold them.
That isnít a problem with the map mechanics or even the players. It is a matchmaking and balance issue.

Iím an objective player and always have been. It annoys the crap out of me when my team goes for all 3 because if the other team have a few good objective players, it will normally result in a loss for me. Usually if my teams are going for all three nodes, I just leave the match. That sort of play isnít fun and I find I have to try and carry teams that play that way.

On the flip side, if I see an opposing team playing that way and my team is trying to play properly, I can often help carry my team to a win because the other team is stretched too thin.

The issue isnít game mechanics, the problem is people are stupid. You canít fix stupid, which unfortunately most pvpers are now.

If this is all about getting 8 medals or getting focused, then thatís a very poor excuse. Itís easy to get 8 medals even when they take all 3. If you are getting focused, then you need to learn how to counter that. Itís part and parcel of playing any form of pvp. Even without markers, which 99% of people now ignore or mark the wrong people (so really irrelevant), normal pvpers use focus target or focus target of target.

Pvp skill and ability to understand basic tactics and strategy has diminished into full death match noobism. Most of these types of players donít care if they win or lose. All they care about is their own scoreboard egos when comparing their dps, defence and healing numbers. Most canít even kill anything unless they are 3,4,5,6,7,8 v 1 person.

The only score that matters is if you win. Everything else is window dressing and doesnít prove you are a good player or not.

IMO, if you want to change that mentality in pvp, you have to make winning the only objective.
1. Donít give any rewards or only minimal rewards for losing (pvp shouldnít be political correctness and offer participation trophies). Make people work for it.
2. Donít publically display people stats. They could be made private so you can still see how you are doing.
3. Only medals and objective points should be displayed publically
4. Change the medal system to make it unique for each map type. Offer more medals for playing in a way that helps win matches in those maps and not just dpsíing
5. Offer better rewards for winning
6. Fix the queue system and matchmaking to work in conjunction with each other so premades end up vs premades and similarly skilled players end up in the same matches
7. Have the queue put people in a lobby after they accept before it makes the teams.
8. Donít start matches that donít have an equal amount of players. If a match starts with less than a maximum amount of players and teams are even, then donít back fill. Just leave them at 6v6 or 7v7 for objective maps and 2v2 or 3v3 if arena starts without enough players.
9. Back fills should only be for matches that have people leave after the game starts,
10. Leaving a match puts a debuff on you so you canít requeue for x amount of time. (But first Bioware need to fix the queue and matchmaking system)

There are just some basic bullet points of ideas that have been floated by the pvp community and myself. All have fallen on deaf ears for 5-7 years.

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
05.30.2019 , 07:13 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthEnrique View Post
Okay let me give an example: Take Ancient Hypergate, without the kill count and the ability to grab both pylons the teams would be fighting over orb gathering which I am fine with because youíre doing the objective trying to gather more orbs before the other team. Nothing wrong with that.
Half the objective in AHG *is* killing the other team. AHG was never designed to be purely a "gather orb is the objective" map. You actually earn points with kills, and the way it is designed, it's actually better to get kills early on than it is to get orbs. Kills are counted again and again every round. Orbs, while worth more up front, are only counted once. Of course, the best is to get both. And later in the match it probably starts to switch to orbs being more valuable (I haven't done the math).

Also, removing the ability to take both pylons would completely ruin some of the great come-backs that happen on that map. Where a weaker team can still pull off a win by ninja-capping the 2nd pylon.

All of that, in my opinion, is *objective* based game play.

The "deathmatchers" in that game are the ones, as you say, who camp spawn, and don't even bother to go take a pylon at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthEnrique View Post
The turret oriented ones same thing, youíre focused on the objective. Eg. A team gets two of the side turrets but not mid, they are unable to get mid at all leaving them to have to to fend off the team from stealing theirs or stop them from getting mid all together and youíd still need someone there guarding them just in case that does happen, eg. you have 1 person at one of the turrets which is what most teams end up doing two to 4 people come after that turret and take it before you can stop them. But if they donít have mid itís still a fight for both teams to get either mid or the other one back the lock out only happens when 1 team gets both. Honestly itís the teams that go for all 3 that bug me. It really just stops them from being able to take all 3 and allows people to get at least 8 medals.
I'm all for adjusting how medals are handed out. I agree that the current system rewards the wrong thing. But taking the turrets *IS* the objective play. To stop a team from taking all 3 (or trying to) is not, in my opinion, going to stop the death-matchers. I think very few of the people that "go for the third" actually care about taking the third. They do it for "sh*ts and giggles" mostly.

But there's also definitely a strategy, again for the "weaker at fighting" team, but maybe "better at strategy". Maybe we know we can't actually hold 2 in straight up fights... so while a couple people who are good at delaying the enemy capping on us hold them off, the rest of the team goes and grabs the one they have. We might have 3 for a bit, but we know we are going to lose the other one. Admittedly, that's judgement call - and also I'll agree that *most* people who go for the 3rd aren't doing it for that reason. But I still want that option open if I happen to get on a team that cares and is good enough to recognize the need and pull that off.

Anyway, it sounds like mostly you want the game changed so that it practically guarantees 8 medals for anyone who comes in. I think that's a mistake. I actually wish that 8 medals was *harder* to get. I understand you don't do PvP regularly? But for anyone who does, even a mediocre skill person like myself... 8 medals is way too easy.

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF

bUrself_'s Avatar


bUrself_
05.30.2019 , 09:11 AM | #10
if squads of fury maras and sorc healers in regs annoy you, as they probably should, please come join us in solo ranked

we need more players and unlike the unranked pvp warzone/battleground mode of every MMO we don't have an obnoxious arms race encouraging people to run in increasingly large squads of increasingly meta classes in voice comms into a queue that is mostly people not doing those things

we've got the meta class arms race but at least teams are random and we've got support role parity! if you queue solo and want fair matches, play solo ranked!