So I just hit 55 and am trying to figure out which Obroan gear to get so that I don't end up wasting any comms later when I start going for Brutalizer gear. My understanding is that most of my gear should be Stalker gear. But, there does seem to be some Force-Mystic and Force-Master gear that I might want instead, the earpiece and implants for example as well as the Force Focus (not sure why the stalker focus includes alacrity)

 

Now, I'm not sure if this holds true since many of the guides I've searched for are probably PvE or many updates ago but I guess I want the following:

440 Accuracy (or whatever makes melee 100%)

25% crit chance (I DO NOT KNOW if this is before or after the Coordination buff, someone please enlighten me if this, or any of this stat building is supposed to be before or after the stim and class buffs)

70-75% crit multiplier

Stack Power.

 

Then it when it comes to some of the mods, not sure if I should be getting the regular version on some, the AX or the BX version. Also, not sure if I should be augmenting my gear or if somehow that will mess with Bolster (I was told Bolster is always applied, even in ranked until you have full 162 gear. Please let me know if this is incorrect)

 

Basically, my head hurts.

 

Any deception players want to chime in on exact pieces I should get first before worrying about mods?

 

Thanks!

If a piece if gear has even 1 expertise on it then bolster will not touch it hence old lvl 50 gear with expertise is bad so you have been misinformed

No way do you want 440 accuracy. That's PvE. Maybe one piece with it, and the companion buff, but no more for PvP.

So I just hit 55 and am trying to figure out which Obroan gear to get so that I don't end up wasting any comms later when I start going for Brutalizer gear. My understanding is that most of my gear should be Stalker gear. But, there does seem to be some Force-Mystic and Force-Master gear that I might want instead, the earpiece and implants for example as well as the Force Focus (not sure why the stalker focus includes alacrity)

 

Now, I'm not sure if this holds true since many of the guides I've searched for are probably PvE or many updates ago but I guess I want the following:

440 Accuracy (or whatever makes melee 100%)

25% crit chance (I DO NOT KNOW if this is before or after the Coordination buff, someone please enlighten me if this, or any of this stat building is supposed to be before or after the stim and class buffs)

70-75% crit multiplier

Stack Power.

 

Then it when it comes to some of the mods, not sure if I should be getting the regular version on some, the AX or the BX version. Also, not sure if I should be augmenting my gear or if somehow that will mess with Bolster (I was told Bolster is always applied, even in ranked until you have full 162 gear. Please let me know if this is incorrect)

 

Basically, my head hurts.

 

Any deception players want to chime in on exact pieces I should get first before worrying about mods?

 

Thanks!

 

When someone says Stalkers gear, they mean the 4-piece set bonus. The rest of the gear can be anything so long as it has willpower.

Mods should always be the ones without a letter. They give the highest contribution of willpower + power/crit. In fact, the 29X mods are better than the 30AX and 30BX mods for DPS. A tank though would take maximum HP - but since this is deception we can ignore that.

Accuracy is only needed in PvE on operations bosses - in PvP, the default from your spec should pretty much cover it. You might want to grab a single accuracy piece for that last 1% though to bypass the 5% resist chance of all classes (operations bosses have 10% resist chance, so you need more accuracy to bypass it)

Crit chance is personal preference. Some people like none if it, some like lots. Run what works for you.

Finally, dump the rest of your stat budget into surge.

 

That should get you as good as you need to be.

take a look on my signature! hf

That guide is extremely helpful, thank you! One question though, that 25% crit target, is that pre or post Coordination buff that gives a pure 5% crit increase?

that 25% is post buff with willpower augments.

ur wlcome

that 25% is post buff with willpower augments.

 

+1

Good to know about the buff, thanks! I might need to level some alts quickly through chapter 2 just so I can rebuff myself after deaths.

 

Actually have 1 more question, finally just decided to try Exilove's PvP style. Well 2/31/13 so that I can have AoE and Death Field (which my first match with it was very useful I'd say, felt weird not having to build voltage).

 

Is this style or some similar tweaking of it viable for PvE at all? I hate having to change my skill tree and key bindings all the time and wonder if this is a viable deception PvE style. I know a lot of people say Madness only but I gave pure madness a try while leveling and did not enjoy nor play as well with it.

 

(Also woot, so close to full Obroan set!)

Good to know about the buff, thanks! I might need to level some alts quickly through chapter 2 just so I can rebuff myself after deaths.

 

Actually have 1 more question, finally just decided to try Exilove's PvP style. Well 2/31/13 so that I can have AoE and Death Field (which my first match with it was very useful I'd say, felt weird not having to build voltage).

 

Is this style or some similar tweaking of it viable for PvE at all? I hate having to change my skill tree and key bindings all the time and wonder if this is a viable deception PvE style. I know a lot of people say Madness only but I gave pure madness a try while leveling and did not enjoy nor play as well with it.

 

(Also woot, so close to full Obroan set!)

 

To be fair, madness doesn't stop being boring until you get the Assassinate proc (~level 41), and doesn't do good damage until you get sever force (level 45), so if you tried it before then or before patch 2.8, of course its going to be boring!

 

On the other hand, unless you're doing nightmare level operations, Deception is not only viable, but was the spec of choice for almost every fight out there until 2.8 turned madness into the ultimate killing machine. And even in not-yet-nerfed nightmare, it was the preferred spec for:

 

Draxus

Grob'thok (a RIDICULOUS percentage of deceptions damage comes from its burst, and you could unload that burst while grob'thok was taking % bonus damage under the magnet...)

Corruptor Zero (Target swapping gives madness a headache)

Brontes (AoE reduction, lots of burst phases with barely any situations where madness's barely higher DPS could come in handy)

 

So, give madness another go now that you're 55, and if you still dont like it, or find you still suck with it, go back to deception.

I gave madness another go and now it is my go to tree for the moment. It really took getting comfortable with my fingers but also learning a sustained rotation beyond the opener of DF, Discharge, CT, Assassinate (Proc), CD (proc). Now that I'm comfortable with that and also when and how to use DF, Recklessness, Thrash, and reapplying my DoTs, I've learned to love it. Especially since matches where I would go maybe 500-700 dps have gone up to about 800-1000 dps. I feel a lot more comfortable with attacking 1v1 too since on Deception, once you go through a burst phase, I found myself screwed if it didn't hit hard enough. Madness has been a whole new game. Been using the skills of a fellow PvPer on my server which was 3/7/36. 3 in Charge Mastery, 2 in Obfuscation, 1 in Chain Shock, 2 in Dark Embrace, 2 in Avoidance, then in the Madness tree, everything filled except Sith Defiance, Oppresing Force, Lambaste, and only one in Haunted Dreams. Has worked very well for me so far. Was worried about not having at least 1 of the 2 of Insulation or Sith Defiance but hasn't been an issue like it was playing Deception. Also was worried not having Thrashing Blades would be problematic to DPSing but it sure helps to be quicker while stealthed and surprise attack an enemy objective getting there quicker before backup arrives. And as long as I can keep CD up on cooldown/proc, then DPSing seems ok.

 

Also been following the gearing of all the really good Assassins on my server whether Deception or Madness and that is 0 crit, all willpower, power, and surge with Aptitude Mods 30X and Adept Enhancments 30X. All I have left is changing the enhancement and mod in my saber as well as getting the Brutalizer 5 set piece gear and optimizing them. I did minmax my Obroan gear since double comms made it really easy and quick to do.

 

I'm contemplating getting a 2 piece set bonus for the Force-Master gear for the 0.5s channel time and healing on CD (since that'd be over 1500 health returned for me). It would help survivability slightly more plus allow me to spam CD more. Such as hit a group with DF, Discharge on two targets, then hit with CD on one, probably proc Assassinate which would proc an immediate cooldown on CD allowing me to better target two enemies wth DoTs. The only reason I haven't yet is I like the 15 second faster cooldown on recklessness and the extra charge is sometimes handy if I don't waste it on a massive group Death Field which I commonly do. Such as using Force Lightning first from a distance, then moving in with the DoTs and DF. Any thoughts on this? Should I stick to 4 piece Stalker or do 2 piece Stalker and 2 piece Force-Master?

 

Edit: After reading more and more posts around here, it seems like the way I played Deception was suboptimal in PvP. I always opened with Spike then popped recklessness and mauled and discharged then VS'd for voltage and induction before using Shock but I see a lot of people mentioning opening with LS and using CD while they are stunned and not using VS slash unless they needed to move into sustained phase. And yes, I've used the skill tree setup that skills into DF. I used to play worse with that as deception but I think that is solely because of how I hotkeyed the ability (I've moved it to mouse button 3 which is about when Madness became comfortable to me).

Edited July 24, 2014 by Hellhog

Stay away from accuracy. if you take charge mastery and have befriend all your companions then you should get 95% no point in wasting slots in gear or even augs. It would be one thing if the buff we got from charge mastery was 9 but it ain't! spend slots on crit chance / power and surge. Some go Full Power nets you around 900+ in bonus dmg with crit chance around 18%. Others do High crit chance around 25% and surge that nets around 800+ but with higher chance to crit. (exploitive strikes recommended when active you be around 33% give a percent or two)

Ok, whoever told you to go 0 Crit as Deception Sin for ANYTHING is a complete moron... you should have 100 - 200 crit rating, i push the limits and have about 31% Crit as Deception in my PvE gear, for PvP you can go for lower (about 25% crit should do the job) you should have 70 - 75% surge 0% Alacrity etc. Accuracy you should get about 95% you can go higher, 100% though is really hard, but is rewarding because you never will miss even against tanks!

Stay away from accuracy. if you take charge mastery and have befriend all your companions then you should get 95% no point in wasting slots in gear or even augs. It would be one thing if the buff we got from charge mastery was 9 but it ain't! spend slots on crit chance / power and surge. Some go Full Power nets you around 900+ in bonus dmg with crit chance around 18%. Others do High crit chance around 25% and surge that nets around 800+ but with higher chance to crit. (exploitive strikes recommended when active you be around 33% give a percent or two)

94%, isn't it? +3% from Charge Mastery, +1% from the companion.

So, I see a few people have posted since I've last checked this thread (which was the week I started it basically).

 

For PvP, I've gotten everything to how I like. I've also gotten advice from some of what I consider the best assassins in the server and they all seem to have the exact same advice. I only have 3 more pieces left to get in Brut gear and then the mods and enhancements for them as well.

 

Also, I exclusively play Madness now as I preferred it while leveling (not being able to use maul on proc because you have agro was annoying), running Ops, and just like having some of the skill sets it provides for PvP (self heals, protection when taunting, protection when stunned). I run with 0 crit, 0 accuracy, and 0 alacrity. All my points are in Willpower, Power (1144), and Surge (720) with optimal mods. I use only Resolve Augments.

 

My melee is 1482-1763, 921 bonus, 94 acc, 19.32 crit, 77 surge. My force is 1340 bonus, 104 acc, 18.8 crit, 77 surge.

 

I consider this to be best for me since I typically am in the top 3 for dps in a match even when on a weak team that doesn't output much dps at all and constantly gets wiped. I don't worry about crit too much as I see crit pops all the time. Also, with the 4 set bonus, I get 3 charges of reckless at a 1:15 cooldown allowing me to crit Death Field and Crushing Darkness (I have to be careful when targeting DF on multiple people if I have multiple charges so I don't blow them).

 

I have considered trying the 2 piece set bonus from the force-master gear that would make Crushing Darkness heal me as well as only have a 0.5 sec cast time however I prefer using CD on proc (discharge then thrash/assassinate) to have instant application at no cost. And would rather not force starve myself from wasting such an early Crushing Darkness. I've wondering what its application could be for a deception but losing the extra charge and 15s faster cooldown on recklessness is not ideal.

 

Either way battles are so short in PvP that extra crit is almost not necessary since you can pop recklessness before a fight. Since you don't have the exit combat cooldown on recklessness that a deception has, this does mean often is it not available for the next fight, but I find this isn't a big deal, even in arenas. Though, I have considered getting some crit pieces and doing some short parses to see how it changes dps.

 

My skill tree is 8-2-36. (full charge mastery, thrashing blades, electric execution in darkness, full avoidance from deception, and every except lambaste, sith defiance, oppressing force, and only 1 point in haunted dreams from madness). [the only difference I have for PvE is that I trade the point in haunted dreams for lambaste and the 2 points in corrupted flesh for sith defiance].

 

Either way this is the gearing and skills I've come to prefer for PvP use since returning to this game and it works quite well for me. I appreciate all the input people have given me. Some people may disagree with my assessment but this is what works for me as of now.

Crits heal you. Going full power in Balance is a very bad idea.

 

Either way, who am I to dictate you how to play your character. But I would advise AT LEAST 25% crit.

Myself.. i'm going for 30%.

Actually, I've been contemplating testing out how much crit helps me in the short matchups. I've been running 2 piece stalker 2 piece force-master a couple days now and have really enjoyed it and do not miss the extra charge. My survivability is quite high, yesterday in ranked I was typically the top dps on my team or in the match. I'm not worried about the crit for the sake of self heals since I seem to get them a lot, but I have been thinking about it for the dps. I'm a little worried that too much crit will hurt my 1v1 dps as I've been able to shut down deception sins without too much hassle. Essentially I fear losing the high damage output from things like assassinate, death field, and the initial hit of crushing darkness. Especially since in a 1v1, 2 charges of recklessness usually mean crit'd DF and Crush most of the time. Sure a crit on CT and Discharge is a big boost, but bloodletting gives a proc'd assassinate quite the damage output, often much higher than a normally used assassinate it seems. I guess I just worry about losing the sure damage of power vs the supposed damage of crit.

Actually, I've been contemplating testing out how much crit helps me in the short matchups. I've been running 2 piece stalker 2 piece force-master a couple days now and have really enjoyed it and do not miss the extra charge. My survivability is quite high, yesterday in ranked I was typically the top dps on my team or in the match. I'm not worried about the crit for the sake of self heals since I seem to get them a lot, but I have been thinking about it for the dps. I'm a little worried that too much crit will hurt my 1v1 dps as I've been able to shut down deception sins without too much hassle. Essentially I fear losing the high damage output from things like assassinate, death field, and the initial hit of crushing darkness. Especially since in a 1v1, 2 charges of recklessness usually mean crit'd DF and Crush most of the time. Sure a crit on CT and Discharge is a big boost, but bloodletting gives a proc'd assassinate quite the damage output, often much higher than a normally used assassinate it seems. I guess I just worry about losing the sure damage of power vs the supposed damage of crit.

 

You will get MORE spike damage from upgrading your crit.. not less..

And you SHOULD be running double 2set. Has nothing to do with extra crits. Recklessness is such a small portion of it it's negigable. It's to guarantee them, not to improve damage output but to improve burst.

Crits heal you. Going full power in Balance is a very bad idea.

 

Either way, who am I to dictate you how to play your character. But I would advise AT LEAST 25% crit.

Myself.. i'm going for 30%.

 

Other posts imply that either 30% or 25% Crit have the same effect in regs but 25% is more efficient in ranked. Either way 0% is a loss of self-heals.

I've spent the last 2 hours looking over your AMRs and tweaking mine. I'm going to give 305 crit a go and see how that is. I don't feel comfortable at the moment hitting up 600+ crit. It'll be a few days till I can switch on the crit since I have to check what enhancements I have in my bay, and have to get the implant/earpiece as well as the 2 mods. I'll still stand by 0 crit for deception most likely. Albeit, I don't plan on playing deception again for a long long time if at all (especially since I'd need to practice a lot to get the hang of it again).

For Deception it's really much more of a go with what you feel like kind of thing.

More crit gives you less juggling between major spikes and massive dips.

 

But going 0 crit does give you amazing Recklessness burst.

IF it crits. I personally find it too unreliable with 0 crit though.

For Deception it's really much more of a go with what you feel like kind of thing.

More crit gives you less juggling between major spikes and massive dips.

 

But going 0 crit does give you amazing Recklessness burst.

IF it crits. I personally find it too unreliable with 0 crit though.

In my opinion this is pretty accurate. I'll rather have a bit more reliability than higher burst, since for the most part the burst is enough even with 25% Crit chance. I can see 0 Crit working as well, but it just doesn't suit me.

Here is a question I have after talking to a sin that was fairly high ranked season 1 or 2, can't remember which. As a Madness sin, I have 94% accuracy, what's the viability of swapping one enhancement worth of surge for accuracy to bring Acc to 95%. According to him, that means I won't miss against anything except Inquisitors and Tanks. Since bloodletting is a huge component of Madness to proc Assassinate above 30%, is it worth the surge loss? Also considering the only other melee move of a Madness sin that you would use is thrash. Thoughts?

Here is a question I have after talking to a sin that was fairly high ranked season 1 or 2, can't remember which. As a Madness sin, I have 94% accuracy, what's the viability of swapping one enhancement worth of surge for accuracy to bring Acc to 95%. According to him, that means I won't miss against anything except Inquisitors and Tanks. Since bloodletting is a huge component of Madness to proc Assassinate above 30%, is it worth the surge loss? Also considering the only other melee move of a Madness sin that you would use is thrash. Thoughts?

 

Don't bother with accuracy.

Accuracy is only needed in PvE on operations bosses - in PvP, the default from your spec should pretty much cover it. You might want to grab a single accuracy piece for that last 1% though to bypass the 5% resist chance of all classes (operations bosses have 10% resist chance, so you need more accuracy to bypass it)

Not resist, Defense! Don't misinform people!

Shadows|Assassins and Sages|Sorcerers have 10% base Defence,

so there's a slight chance they avoid your white attacks: Maul, Assassinate, Low Slash, Thrash.

6% if you run with 0 Accuracy on your gear and about 5% if you run with Obroan piece with 72 Accuracy.

Not saying every Deception Assassin should run with +10% Accuracy.

I'm running +5% btw, but sometimes it's annoying when some sorc Dodges Assassinate or Assassin Low Slash.

Edited September 20, 2014 by GNWP