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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
06.03.2020 , 12:10 PM | #9901
Quote: Originally Posted by lichoni View Post
so, I qued on a veteran GF and got boarding party (I qued as tank) immediately was told to switch to dps and I responded I would. tank and other dps's proceed to pull and lock me from switching spec's locking me as a tank till first boss. we kill the first boss after about 10 min. I get kicked because 1 tank and 2 dps wanted to be scum and lock me out after telling them “hey wait and let me change over to my dps spec”.

it has been at least 6 years since I have played, and this is the first time I’ve had this issue.

anyone else run into scummy players like this? they ask you to do something but they just waste your time instead?
Really interesting! I have never faced that issue, IIRC I have never been asked to respec to DPS on either my tank or healer.

Sorry that you experienced this, hopefully, you will keep running into better people in the future.

Screaming_Ziva's Avatar


Screaming_Ziva
06.10.2020 , 01:02 PM | #9902
Was leveling my last Sorc and got Cademimu with some pretty bad players. After a couple wipes (on trash) I started CC'ing to help us get through them. After two or three pulls I got "stop CC'ing enemies" from one of the other players. I don't think I've ever been asked to not CC something before but this guy ended up making a point of it by then going directly at anything I CC'd.
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BobFredJohn's Avatar


BobFredJohn
06.21.2020 , 01:03 AM | #9903
Coming back from a long time away, I think over a year and a half. Things seem to have changed a lot.

I have been levelling and gearing up my jugg tank and sniper, who are both now at full 306, but it took a lot of fp's and a lot of frustration. Including:

The vast majority of damage players not following kill order, the times I brought it up I never got a response. Most of them just tunnel visioning elites the entire mission. Also it seems ignoring adds in boss fights is common now.

Damage players pulling before the tank in order to do pointless LOS pulls, including my jugg tank being told off by a sniper for not LOSing the second pull in hammer station (I have noticed everybody seems to do that for no reason), then vote kicked for not LOSing the third pull.

Damage never using interrupt, healers never using cleanse, tanks tunnel-visioning 1 enemy in each pull.

Yet every time I mentioned this to people I either get no answer or a "it doesn't matter" (yeah apparently interrupting malgus at the end of FE doesn't matter).

Some examples:
Jugg tanking on FE, bounty hunter boss, I ask "easy way or quick way?" before I pull, healer says "I want to finish fast" and dps pulls so I start tanking with no intention to use turrets to fend off the ship. Both dps don't interrupt boss flame attack, healer gets overwhelmed and we wipe. I ask healer why he agreed to fast fight if he cant heal through it and he says "you should follow mechanics" I ask him if he knows what I mean by describing the boss mechanics as "fast or easy" and says he doesn't. When I tell the dps to interrupt flame attacks I get told to stop complaining and just tank.

Hammer station with my sniper, The tank is not holding aggro, I watch his animations and hes clearly dps spec. I mention it to him and he says he can still tank like that. I tell him he probably cant as his gear is 187 and the other dps, a sorc is 306. He says it makes no difference. Healer starts demanding guard, when I say "healer doesn't need guard" he tell us he will not heal until he gets guard. I tell him "you can either trust I know about tanking or I can waste ages explaining game mechanics to you" to which he tells me that healer needs guard. I give up.
We get to the first boss healer refuses to do anything, tank dies at 3-stack of beam and we wipe. Healer quits group, I get healer comp and we pull again, sorc tanks the entire fight as - like I predicted - 187 dps cannot hold aggro off 306 dps. I cant control comp to do beam mechanics properly so we wipe, on run back to third attempt we get a new merc healer in 306.
Despite healers best effort the tank dies in the 6-second period that he has aggro from his taunt, doesn't follow cleanse mechanic and we wipe. The tank-dps quits group and we requeue, get a proper tank and complete fp easily.

Mando raiders, every time I run this every group seems to kill either consular or smuggler first. After I point out knight should be killed first, everybody generally ignores me except one time a dps answers with "lol why?"
me: "he has no aggro table and has a knock-back stun thing, so he can be irritating and should be dealt with first"
dps: "lol it doesn't matter who we kill first"
on a side note, on every single run of mando raiders every single dps (except me on my sniper) continues to tunnel-vision final boss instead of shooting turrets. Again when I brought it up when tanking it with my jugg I get no answer.

Tython, I join with my sniper in a group who are on the last boss. We pull and its clear the tank is not tank specced, both the tank and other dps stand in the circles and, when we wipe, tell the healer to heal them. When healer apologises for being undergeared (280) the tank puts vote kick on them. I point out there was no problem with the healing, but get no answer. We wait around for another healer when I suddenly get a whisper from the healer we just kicked:
Them: "good luck with those 2, dw I wanted out of there"
me: "what do you mean?"
healer: "those 2 think they are doing everything right and kick anybody who disagrees, the guy you replaced was kicked for arguing with tank and I am not the same healer the group started with"
me: "but they were ignoring mechanics and tank is not tank spec"
healer: "I know but kicking me means I don't get a lockout"
me: "so why do they think their right?"
healer: "because they are full 306 gear so they must be pro"
me: "well ill try once more but this doesn't sound good, thanks for the warning"
healer: "lol gl"
Another healer joins, we pull, other dps dies in random circles at start, healer combat reses and the dps and fake-tank die in the first round of circles, they are both dead with boss around 70-75%. Me and healer die with boss at 30%. Vote kick on new healer, reason: undergeared.
new healer: "what?"
fake-tank: "you cant heal well enough for this"
me: "try following mechanics, me and him managed to do almost half the fight with just the 2 of us so he cant be that bad"
vote kick on me, no reason.
both kicks succeed.
Teach me not what to think, but how to think

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. People are also entitled to ridicule your opinion if it is BS.

elimatorxv's Avatar


elimatorxv
06.21.2020 , 07:45 AM | #9904
@bob yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah sadly many dps who que as tank think they are ''pro'' thankfully i am from the 1.0 era as in if i que as dps i will kill all the small adds first then stronger then elite then boss, but sadly much has changed including the flashpoints, i blame the solo garbage fp though
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LegallyTwisted's Avatar


LegallyTwisted
06.21.2020 , 08:39 AM | #9905
Got trapped in queue about three times with an assassin who only knew how to click two things: whirling blow and basic attack. It was the buttcrack of dawn queue and I was just trying to take advantage of some double XP and I was stuck with the guy. Listen, when I'm the best DPS in the group (I'm a bad DPS), you know things are gonna be very VERY slow.

DeannaVoyager's Avatar


DeannaVoyager
06.21.2020 , 09:34 AM | #9906
@BobFredJohn

Thank you for reminding me why I'm not using group finder anymore. I don't know what's wrong with people these days, it didn't use to be that bad, but your description is pretty accurate from what I've seen.

Today we made a group of three guildies, and pugged one dps from fleet for "random MM FP". Level 73 sentinel in 208 gear joins and tells us to queue Hammer Station. We informed him that the idea of looking for someone for a random MM FP is to avoid getting grouped with HS farmers. He isn't happy I guess, but doesn't leave. Luckily it wasn't any of the new flashpoints, and we had no problem running through it. Except at some point the sentinel starts to run in first, as lowest level player and with lowest gear, but only dies when he leaps to a mob someone else was just pushing off the ledge.

(Where do you even get 208 gear these days??)
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shleefin's Avatar


shleefin
06.23.2020 , 10:53 AM | #9907
This adventure happened a few days ago. Got a MM assault on tython with my overpowered, soon to be nerfed (probably), full 306 & aug'ed merc healer. I zoned into an argument that was starting between a jugg "tank" and one of the dps, an assassin. The jugg was a dps who apparently queued as tank, probably on purpose. The assassin was quite upset at the "tank" and was scolding him for queuing for tank as a dps.

The "tank" countered that he had done this fp before without a tank. I didn't really believe him, but I was extremely bored and getting pretty burnt out with the game (again). So, I suggested that we try the fp anyway with 3 dps. The assassin was very skeptical, so I told everyone that as long as no one stood in any circles on the ground, it would be easy. That was probably way too optimistic, but I felt the need to put on a brave front...

...Which was almost immediately exposed. The "tank" pulled trash while the assassin was stealthing the towers. We died. That enraged the assassin. Insults were hurled. I braced for a vote kick or rage quit but, incredibly, everyone stayed. Hilariously and ironically, the assassin pulled while trying to stealth the final tower, which prompted some retaliatory snark from the "tank". That seemed to quiet everyone down at least.

First boss was pretty ugly. The assassin died, twice, due to being inside of giant red circles on the ground, and then accepting my rez at a bad time. The "tank" died. I was even caught standing in a circle, though in my defense I was preoccupied trying to keep everyone up and had to just eat one. Mercs have 3 health bars anyway, no big deal. Despite the mess, the remaining dps was absolutely great at staying out of stuff and we managed to 2 man it.

After somehow pulling all the trash up to the 2nd boss, even though it's all skipable, we began the 2nd boss pull. He's really easy, the circles are much smaller. The "tank" died anyway. I rezzed. We clear.

For the last boss, I again implored the group to make an effort to stay out of ground circles. We pull. I kept pulling and holding boss aggro. Merc heals are so OP, I was somehow getting more threat than any of the dps and "tank". This was unexpected, and unfortunately, I could not tank and heal at the same time due to the number of knockbacks I was getting. So annoying!

We made it pretty far, but in the end it was a wipe. The usual suspects expressed their frustrations. The "tank" assured us that he most definitely was not standing in any circles when he died. I braced again for a rage quit/vote kick but none came. I explained to the "tank" how I was pulling aggro, and that he should guard me and taunt the boss. These instructions were followed, at least until the "tank" died due to excessive circle eating. However, it was late enough in the pull, and we lost no one else, so it was a clear.

The fp was over, but not the drama. The assassin told the "tank" how lucky he was that I agreed to doing the fp without a tank. He continued berating the "tank" as we watched the final scene. I just said my "gg"s and dropped group. They were still arguing with each other when I left.

It was an unconventional, absolutely dysfunctional group. Your classic nightmare GF pug scenario. We had no tank, certainly no group synergy, and we didn't like each other. We should not have succeeded. Yet, we did succeed and with only one wipe to boot. It was a challenging change of pace from the typical GF experience. Was it more fun than Hammer Station spam? Yes, I think it was. Would I do it again? Probably not.

elimatorxv's Avatar


elimatorxv
06.23.2020 , 04:44 PM | #9908
Quote: Originally Posted by shleefin View Post
snip.
damn bro patience there with that group :P
though they didnt blamed you from what i read you did your role so only ones to blame were the sin and jug dps player

does sound like a reall raptus nightmare there
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Lodinn's Avatar


Lodinn
06.25.2020 , 02:01 AM | #9909
Quote: Originally Posted by BobFredJohn View Post
Coming back from a long time away, I think over a year and a half. Things seem to have changed a lot.
Oh that they did.

Quote: Originally Posted by BobFredJohn View Post
The vast majority of damage players not following kill order, the times I brought it up I never got a response. Most of them just tunnel visioning elites the entire mission. Also it seems ignoring adds in boss fights is common now.
In the latest FPs it's literally easier to burn the boss sometimes, also doesn't help that in umbara, chiss, and meridian there are major burn phases where you are not supposed to even kill these adds first. Plus rescaling of a bunch of other FPs changed things.

Quote: Originally Posted by BobFredJohn View Post
Damage players pulling before the tank in order to do pointless LOS pulls, including my jugg tank being told off by a sniper for not LOSing the second pull in hammer station (I have noticed everybody seems to do that for no reason), then vote kicked for not LOSing the third pull.
If done right mobs are going down much faster indeed. In VM I'm pulling these packs to LoS on a dps over 90% of the time, tank or not. I remember when people used to CC those, especially when slice droid was still a thing, now given how much people run HS the more efficient ways have surfaced. It really is much, much faster to LoS this 3rd pull and be able to aoe spam it down; sniper quite easily can tank it alone on VM with just diversion and a few more cooldowns provided people are pressing buttons. With how the pack is spread, juggs typically struggle with aggro otherwise and it's a hot mess where it doesn't have to be. So no, I'm totally with the dps there, although kicking is surely too extreme.

Quote: Originally Posted by BobFredJohn View Post
When I tell the dps to interrupt flame attacks I get told to stop complaining and just tank.
Yeah that's a good way to do it. Since the slow way apparently bugs out these days more often than not, you only get 1 missile reset per fight, so it's expected for the healer to make up for it. Interrupting flame sweep is a good advice not that many people seem to be aware of, but again, with everyone 306 healer typically easily heals through before damage gets actually harsh for long enough.

Quote: Originally Posted by BobFredJohn View Post
I tell him "you can either trust I know about tanking or I can waste ages explaining game mechanics to you" to which he tells me that healer needs guard. I give up.
Now I'm curious about what you wanted to tell them. Healer doesn't need the guard but in a typical scenario, including the one you've described, there are no better targets for it anyway.

Quote: Originally Posted by BobFredJohn View Post
I cant control comp to do beam mechanics properly so we wipe, on run back to third attempt we get a new merc healer in 306.
That's more odd since comps are typically good with cleanses but it might be they cleanse too early and the stacks ramp up. A decent sin should still be able to negate nearly all of them ofc.

Despite healers best effort the tank dies in the 6-second period that he has aggro from his taunt, doesn't follow cleanse mechanic and we wipe. The tank-dps quits group and we requeue, get a proper tank and complete fp easily.

Quote: Originally Posted by BobFredJohn View Post
Mando raiders (snip)
dps: "lol it doesn't matter who we kill first"
That's right, you basically aoe them down anyway now. Non-LoSing takes about twice as much time so it's rarely done like intended in groups knowing their stuff.

Tython circles get meme-y but jokes aside, this boss is overtuned. Even ignoring desync bs and such, there's a huuuge difference between the regular MMFP boss where the healer uses cleanse once in a blue moon and can snooze for the rest of the fight and ~30%+ hp unavoidable raidwides with the need to move. DPS using cooldowns help immensely of course, but anyway the group breezing through say rakata may very well struggle with this one. While personally I think it's a more desirable level of difficulty for MMFP than what we have now, most of the rest bosses are tuned way lower than that.
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Khaleijo's Avatar


Khaleijo
06.25.2020 , 08:25 AM | #9910
Quote: Originally Posted by Lodinn View Post
... snip
Your post highlights the very issue. A lot of FPs and bosses can be brute forced and just burned down at this point, both in VM (a lot of experienced players can run them alone with a comp so it doesn't really matter if half the group is more or less decoration so to speak or lies around dead) and sadly also in MM.
It works in most FPs, the problem there is, a lot of very bad habits are spreading (like attacking before the tank, kill order and other basic group/role dynamics, not explaining key points) and newer players that have come to play SWTOR over the last few months or the last year do not learn how to properly deal with that kind of stuff for the times when it is not possible to just burn through, either when for example there isn't an experienced player in the group that can just carry the rest or because it's one of the few FPs where that still doesn't work.
That's why Crisis of Umbara is that much of a problem via GF, or Rishi, Copero or Nathema. People are so much used to ignore all there is to the usual boss encounters that they don't remember or never actually learned how to recognise and deal with basic boss mechanics. After all, pretty much all of the difficult FP bosses can be broken down into a combination of several mechanics that already have been used elsewhere in the game.

Just as mechanics are ignored, roles are often too, a healer there that would be well able to heal the group if they don't park in damaging effects, yet the kolto stations are clicked immediately after getting a mere scratch, tank losing a boss to a DPS, doesn't matter, pop a CD and ignore it. It works, yes, but only with competent and experienced players (and usually also vastly overgeared since you really don't need full augmented 306 anywhere in the MM FPs, not even Meridian, and really not in any of the VMs). The rest who really would need some kind of learning experience just follow that, but without the underlying understanding and experience and then wonder why it doesn't work when they are on their own. Most likely causing toxic behaviour and blaming the rest of the group too then.

To a degree the same goes for trash, everything is skipped (sometimes even where killing stuff would be as fast or even faster), but where that isn't possible there is chaos most of the time because everyone just attacks what they find as a first target, without any sense of tactic or the awareness of what the different kind of enemies do, or what to do if that enemy doesn't just falls dead in an instant and actually dares to strike back.
From the FPs that drags on into PUG operations, the number of players I've seen using aoe on single bosses lately, either running around like headless chicken or parking in damaging effects until they die without moving at all and so on, no attention to any kind of mechanic, buff, de-buff and the like. And yes, it works there too, but usually only as long there are a few old school players, experienced PvPers, HC or NIM raiders present that carry the group through.

Seeing how most FPs are played these days this unfortunate development is not really a surprise, but it isn't really healthy for the long term quality of the player base either.
So maybe even if it is possible to brute force through bosses, if part of the group is inexperienced it might be better to teach them how to do it properly first before teaching them to ignore everything. Then the so called PUG killer bosses and FPs will become more doable with the average GF PUG, because they know better how to deal with mechanics in general.
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