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How does our feedback work

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Typhaos's Avatar


Typhaos
07.05.2017 , 04:46 PM | #461
OK.
If you have little staff, make smaller steps.
Why would you think you will be able to deliver such vast project like "KOTET/KOTFE+deleted part of storyline" +companion chapters within reasonable time?
And it probably wouldn't be a problem if the "KOTET/KOTFE+deleted storyline" expansion was released in several parts IF it also didn't mean that automatically the player is cut off everything he had earlier!!
You did this:
we will take away temporarly your galaxy, your companions and make you wait until expansion ends but it will take few YEARS.
And guess what it's even worse because expansion ended and I STILL DON'T HAVE MY COMPANIONS!
But like many people, at this point I want you to give them back with proper story, proper explanation why they did not come back earlier and a lot of emotions!
For the future just don't plan massive blocks of closed content. Content that once opened prevents the player to do anything else. You don't have resources to manage such projects. Make frequent, but smaller additions.

JattaGin's Avatar


JattaGin
09.12.2017 , 02:52 AM | #462
Quote: Originally Posted by CharlesBoyd View Post
This is a great chance to talk about story, and how folks' feedback on story is integrated. Let's use KOTFE, the monthly chapters, and KOTET as the example.

A) The original plan was that we would have a trilogy of "Knights of" expansions focused on dealing with Valkorion and his Eternal Empire, with episodic chapters between them. The major story beats would occur in the expansions, while the episodic chapters would be just that: episodic, mostly stand-alone beats focused on returning companions and side stories.

B) The most common issues that we saw from the community feedback after KOTFE and the first few monthly chapters were:
  1. The story felt dragged out (monthly chapters in particular)
  2. At least partly due to #1, the companion-focused chapters were not as well-received as the KOTFE ones (although desire to get companions back remained high).
  3. Many players felt that there weren't enough choices in the storyline with big enough impacts/consequences, or that those impacts/consequences were delayed so far that they didn't feel meaningful or connected.
  4. Some folks simply didn't like the core premise. Introducing a new empire, expanding on Vitiate/Valkorion, players frozen in carbonite for five years, missing companions, etc.

C) Changes that were made as a result of that feedback:
  1. We compressed the story such that it would be completed in Knights of the Eternal Throne.
  2. Later monthly chapters were modified to focus more on the core storyline, and less on companion returns.
  3. The writers constructed the storyline of KOTET specifically to offer bigger choices that would pay off in visible and interesting ways.
  4. This was the core creative vision of the entire thing, so there wasn't much changed here - it wouldn't really be feasible. That's not to say that we ignored this feedback or don't take it seriously; it's just that any creative endeavor has some core concept at its heart that can't be changed without scrapping everything. This was the story direction that excited us as creators and fans, so it's the one we pursued even as we made the above changes along the way.

D) The end result: the overall storyline was cut down by more than a third so that it would play out more quickly, while simultaneously introducing more choices and consequences. Companion returns had to be put on the backburner to achieve these changes, and my original plan to do entire chapters for each of them just aren't feasible at this point, so we're currently working on plans to get them back as expediently as possible. (If I sound a little sad about that part in particular, I am, but I think it's perfectly reasonable that folks are out of patience on that one )

Overall, story is one of the most difficult areas to implement feedback, since we've usually constructed the next several beats by the time players see any of it and provide feedback. But hopefully this post helps to demonstrate that we still try very hard to implement feedback-driven changes into story regardless of the challenges.

Keep the great posts and thoughts - and especially feedback! - coming
Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.
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Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
09.12.2017 , 02:59 AM | #463
Quote: Originally Posted by JattaGin View Post
Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.
Me too, but I guess they did what the people wanted and it sucked. 😥
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DarthSpuds's Avatar


DarthSpuds
09.12.2017 , 03:12 AM | #464
Quote: Originally Posted by JattaGin View Post
Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.
I don't think there's anything like enough info in Charles; post to assume it would have been good, bad or indifferent.

What we do know is that they were working to this plan at least up to the moment the first half of KotFE went live as a seven (or was it 8) chapter bulk release.

And some of those chapters are the very worst in the entire KotFE/ET debacle; all of them demonstrate an abject lack of creativity with story, pacing, combat mechanics, and originality.

By the time you are done with Chapter 4 you have seen the combat and level design cadence for everything released since then - and it is boring.

Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skiytroopers > Corridor > Four Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Wave Of Skytroopers > Corridor > Boss > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skiytroopers > Corridor > Four Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Wave Of Skytroopers > Corridor > Boss > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skiytroopers > Corridor > Four Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Wave Of Skytroopers > Corridor > Boss > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skiytroopers > Corridor > Four Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Wave Of Skytroopers > Corridor > Boss > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skiytroopers > Corridor > Four Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Wave Of Skytroopers > Corridor > Boss.

Cutting that rubbish down from Three Expacs to Two was the biggest bonus of them having to shorten it all.

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kodrac's Avatar


kodrac
09.12.2017 , 07:39 AM | #465
Quote: Originally Posted by JattaGin View Post
Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.
Trouble is, reading through it was better than playing through it. They took their fun sounding concept and made it tedious and nonsensical one size fits all..
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Estelindis's Avatar


Estelindis
09.12.2017 , 08:37 AM | #466
Quote: Originally Posted by JattaGin View Post
Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.
I feel the same way. Combat in KotFE wasn't always fun, but the character-focused stuff was good. Even a chapter that I didn't otherwise like, Anarchy in Paradise, was vastly improved when I played it with an agent who'd romanced Kaliyo. Everything felt like it fit better and was more meaningful. But because of the complaining, those of us still waiting for companions may not get to enjoy that sort of experience.

I really hope that the wait is properly rewarded rather than us getting haphazard returns like poor fans of Dorne and Quinn. Even though the full three-act plan was scrapped, it's still possible to write good, substantial companion returns. I really think it's better to take more time with them and make them solid. A bad return is bad forever. A good return is good forever.
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HKtheindomitable's Avatar


HKtheindomitable
09.12.2017 , 09:51 AM | #467
Quote: Originally Posted by Estelindis View Post
I feel the same way. Combat in KotFE wasn't always fun, but the character-focused stuff was good. Even a chapter that I didn't otherwise like, Anarchy in Paradise, was vastly improved when I played it with an agent who'd romanced Kaliyo. Everything felt like it fit better and was more meaningful. But because of the complaining, those of us still waiting for companions may not get to enjoy that sort of experience.

I really hope that the wait is properly rewarded rather than us getting haphazard returns like poor fans of Dorne and Quinn. Even though the full three-act plan was scrapped, it's still possible to write good, substantial companion returns. I really think it's better to take more time with them and make them solid. A bad return is bad forever. A good return is good forever.
Agreed. I love KotFE and KotET. Unfortunately this is what the complaining has given us. One can definitely see how impatience is bad, and patience is good. And most of the complaints about it being "tedious" were from those that would rather spacebar through the dialogue. Don't get me wrong, Chapter 9 was tedious to me too, but only because you would be engaged in combat when the enemy NPCs were really far away and your companion wouldn't go attack them because they were attacking you with an effect, not actual damage dealing attacks. Someone with power in the company (E.A. more likely than BioWare) gave in to the complaining rather than sticking with the original plan.

Isn't player impatience grand? /s

If E.A. would fund this game better, we could have had the original plan, as well as whatever faster paced story not long after (along with any multiplayer content). It's like E.A. is willing to take our money through SWTOR, but secretly hopes the game will just go away so they don't have to spend money anymore. That could also be the result of the Disney marketing department trying so hard to push new movie story stuff that they're trampling what already exists.

Isn't greed and selfishness just the most wonderful thing ever? /s
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kodrac's Avatar


kodrac
09.12.2017 , 10:46 AM | #468
Quote: Originally Posted by HKtheindomitable View Post
And most of the complaints about it being "tedious" were from those that would rather spacebar through the dialogue.
You know what they say about assume, right?
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Decidion's Avatar


Decidion
09.12.2017 , 12:17 PM | #469
Wow, this thread is still going?

If you're naive to think that our feedback truly does matter, its time to wake up. If it did, this Galactic Command debacle would have been scrapped months ago. I have never seen so many people complain (and leave the game) about this single decision, which they have refused to truly address, than any other issue in any other game I have played (going back to 1992).

bdatt's Avatar


bdatt
09.12.2017 , 01:27 PM | #470
The fully instanced chapter presentation (single player game in an MMO engine) needed to go. And I've never been shy about my disdain for all my characters being railroaded into the Outlander. But I've really enjoyed the lore around Zakuul and Iokath and didn't mind the new enemy and threat per se. And the dialog and such was really good in KOTXX. The cinematics that were "off screen" were overdone though, but that's minor.

I guess we'll see but I hope there are some big explorable areas that elaborate on the lore for these new worlds.