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Did I witness cheating or are Commandos in PvP this strong?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Did I witness cheating or are Commandos in PvP this strong?

Slafer's Avatar


Slafer
10.17.2018 , 07:20 PM | #1
Was in a wz the other night and we were 5 to 1 fighting a comando for a base capture he was staying alive well enough while doing his share of damage, is that class just that good for people who are vet players or is it more likely he had some kind of mod enhancement . This was unranked I'm not familiar with pubs really I'm a imp player but I still found it strange a player could survive as long as he did and do that much damage against 5 people, any information would be appreciated
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WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
10.17.2018 , 08:08 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Slafer View Post
Was in a wz the other night and we were 5 to 1 fighting a comando for a base capture he was staying alive well enough while doing his share of damage, is that class just that good for people who are vet players or is it more likely he had some kind of mod enhancement . This was unranked I'm not familiar with pubs really I'm a imp player but I still found it strange a player could survive as long as he did and do that much damage against 5 people, any information would be appreciated
They're that strong. 3 lives crap. tons of healing as DPS. Anti-focus, Heavy Armor, I-Win button [ You get e-neted, say hello to his little friends!]. Many people will say it's a L2P issue, but you'd be a fool to believe it. L2P = Please don't take my advantage away. Snipers too.

It's all about the ranged face tanking this meta. Enjoy.

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
10.17.2018 , 08:58 PM | #3
It is very unlikely you encountered cheating.

Mercs and Commandos are currently very strong due to anti-focus or self-healing DCDs, off heals, and a good ability to kite. A good Merc or Commando can absolutely delay for a long time at a node.

Having said that, if you had him or her outnumbered 5 to 1 there was more going on than just Mercs having strong DCDs. That is more than enough to melt any Merc or Commando, to the point of overkill, if people know how to counter the spec and are doing the right thing. While Merc's strong DCDs (that do need to be nerfed honestly, though paired with damage being buffed back to pre-nerf levels) make it one of the best dueling specs in the game, it isn't so OP that any two players regardless of spec can't burst it down. Even two DPS Sorcs are enough to deal with one Merc, assuming equal skill and knowing how to counter. If a Merc is at a numbers disadvantage and succeeds, the issue was a skill imbalance, not the strength of his or her DCDs.

From the sound of it your group was not countering correctly. People were probably dealing direct damage when bubbles were up and healing to full. In general with Mercs and Commandos you want to save CC for when they pop bubbles. Blue is Energy Shield for Mercs and orange Responsive Safeguards. Energy Shield has a damage mitigation (25%) and lasts 12 seconds, Responsive Safeguards is orange and lasts 6 seconds. Responsive Safeguards absorbs 100% of all direct single target damage and reflects 50% of it back on the attacker as well as healing for 5% of maximum health each time a direct attack is absorbed. In addition players can take utilities that beef up Energy Shield (including giving it a self-heal that when the shield expires, heals based on the amount of direct damage received while it was active), and of course most players do. The colors are reversed with Commandos who have orange for their version of Energy Shield and blue for their version of Responsive Safeguards.

Bubble up? CC, AOE (if not mezzed), LoS or target swap if you have to. Just don't do direct single target damage *unless* they are low health, have Energy Shield up, and you are certain they can be burst down before it expires.

A Merc is one of the main DPS specs I play and I've been in situations like you describe, and nothing makes me happier than to tie up 3, or 4, or 5 people at an opposing team's side node while my team caps mid. It's entirely dependent however on one or more players not knowing how to play against Mercs and for example continue running through a full rotation when I have Responsive Safeguards up. If I run into a group that does know how to counter Mercs I quickly land in trouble, and am toast unless I can delay them with LoS or CC and retreat.

Merc DCDs are too strong at the moment but not a grant of invincibility. If a Merc seems invincible, and isn't guarded or being healed, it is 100% of the time due to people helping that Merc survive focus by healing him or her to full, and probably more than once.

Also in general you never want to go 5 versus 1 at a node. Even if you global the person you're piling on you might as well roll out a welcome mat on the node(s) you control. After all if you heavily outnumber the opponents at one node it should mean your team is (or will be) heavily outnumbered at the other.

Mycroft-Tarkin's Avatar


Mycroft-Tarkin
10.17.2018 , 10:08 PM | #4
If you ever have to ask this question, the answer is no.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
10.17.2018 , 10:35 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
They're that strong. 3 lives crap. tons of healing as DPS. Anti-focus, Heavy Armor, I-Win button [ You get e-neted, say hello to his little friends!]. Many people will say it's a L2P issue, but you'd be a fool to believe it. L2P = Please don't take my advantage away. Snipers too.

It's all about the ranged face tanking this meta. Enjoy.
He's absolutely correct, the only ones playing these op classes are sub-par players that need that crutch that I win button! Pretty much any of the classes that have heals on dmg break trinity and thus everyone is playing them. This includes jugs as well, though not as bad as merc or sniper its still op for a DPS burst class. All of these classes are suppose to be glass cannons yet none of them are Which is plainly evident by most Premade's on rebel side half of squad equals four jugs other half 4 sorcs or 3 mercs etc etc!

Sniper is just ridiculous dam near 90% of the time immune from stun excellent damage reduction there needs to be a cost for all these uber abilities either reduced dmg or no stuns are a few that have been tossed about. Highly unlikely Bioware even cares they know the game is hemorrhaging its player base they have even gone so far as to start adding solo content which is huge because now it's basically given up trying to be a MMO.

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
10.17.2018 , 11:11 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Kazz_Devlin View Post
He's absolutely correct, the only ones playing these op classes are sub-par players that need that crutch that I win button!
They're the only people playing mercs? Really? There were no mercs at all prior to 5.0?

There are plenty of people who have been playing mercs for years. They also tend to be the ones that cause opposing players headaches, not the FOTM rerollers that everyone loves to rail against. The FOTM rerollers are usually the players that are most easily dealt with.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
10.17.2018 , 11:24 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
They're the only people playing mercs? Really? There were no mercs at all prior to 5.0?

There are plenty of people who have been playing mercs for years. They also tend to be the ones that cause opposing players headaches, not the FOTM rerollers that everyone loves to rail against. The FOTM rerollers are usually the players that are most easily dealt with.
I second this sentiment. There are mercs that are very good at what they do and these are the annoying ones. For every one merc capable of a protracted 5 on 1 there are a out 10 that don't know what their basic attack is.

Totemdancer's Avatar


Totemdancer
10.18.2018 , 12:02 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Kazz_Devlin View Post
He's absolutely correct, the only ones playing these op classes are sub-par players that need that crutch that I win button! Pretty much any of the classes that have heals on dmg break trinity and thus everyone is playing them. This includes jugs as well, though not as bad as merc or sniper its still op for a DPS burst class. All of these classes are suppose to be glass cannons yet none of them are Which is plainly evident by most Premade's on rebel side half of squad equals four jugs other half 4 sorcs or 3 mercs etc etc!

Sniper is just ridiculous dam near 90% of the time immune from stun excellent damage reduction there needs to be a cost for all these uber abilities either reduced dmg or no stuns are a few that have been tossed about. Highly unlikely Bioware even cares they know the game is hemorrhaging its player base they have even gone so far as to start adding solo content which is huge because now it's basically given up trying to be a MMO.
The problem becomes amplified when you actually have good veteran players on these classes who donít actually need a crutch. A lot of those guys arenít playing the class to be FOTM, they are people whoíve always mained the class and know them inside out. These guys are even harder to kill because of skill and they become de facto pvp gods because of it.
You are right about the rest. Most are garbage and need a crutch.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
10.18.2018 , 12:53 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Totemdancer View Post
The problem becomes amplified when you actually have good veteran players on these classes who donít actually need a crutch. A lot of those guys arenít playing the class to be FOTM, they are people whoíve always mained the class and know them inside out. These guys are even harder to kill because of skill and they become de facto pvp gods because of it.
You are right about the rest. Most are garbage and need a crutch.
So true, though I would disagree with calling it skill. I mean if you have two equally skilled drivers ones in an every day car going up against a modified stock car there's no real skill here its just plain straight up out matched. I would go as far as to say that with every class of that type joining unbalances the match by degrees got enough and its a wash from the start. YET the DEV's still refuse to address this!

Totemdancer's Avatar


Totemdancer
10.18.2018 , 01:13 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Kazz_Devlin View Post
So true, though I would disagree with calling it skill. I mean if you have two equally skilled drivers ones in an every day car going up against a modified stock car there's no real skill here its just plain straight up out matched. I would go as far as to say that with every class of that type joining unbalances the match by degrees got enough and its a wash from the start. YET the DEV's still refuse to address this!
Yes, but it you put a stock car with a crap driver vs a normal car with great driver, there is a good possibility the normal car wins if itís a technical course.
But put 2 good drives against each other and one is in either car, then yes, totally out matched before you start.