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Farming Premades losing the game for team

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Farming Premades losing the game for team

Totemdancer's Avatar


Totemdancer
10.13.2018 , 10:51 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by giorgo View Post
Let's be honest here. There are two types of farming premades (for the most part).
There are guys that play solo ranked and occasionally jump into regs. Realistically you can't excpect them to play for the objectives; it's not in their mentality, it's not their thing...and you can't forbid them to play regs.
Then there are these other guys who play the game since forever, the veterans of a sort. Most of these guys cannot be bothered anymore with the objectives and for good reason; they have been doing them for years. If you are a veteran stuck on guarding the objective while other players who can't break 1 k dps are all over the place doing nothing, you will eventually end up with the mindset to not bother wth the objectives anymore.
TL;DR Ranked players don't care about objectives and never will, veterans cannot be bothered anymore and new players are not interested to learn.These are the reasons, as far as i can tell, that pvp is so bad.
And both of those groups are selfish and ruin reg pvp. They also teach new players and noobs the wrong way to play regs because they look at these good players and think thatís how pvp works in this game.
That is part of the reason regs are so rubbish to begin with and why Ranked arena as a format has been detrimental to 8v8 pvp since it was introduced and 8v8 was removed.

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KendraP
10.13.2018 , 11:06 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Totemdancer View Post
And both of those groups are selfish and ruin reg pvp. They also teach new players and noobs the wrong way to play regs because they look at these good players and think thatís how pvp works in this game.
That is part of the reason regs are so rubbish to begin with and why Ranked arena as a format has been detrimental to 8v8 pvp since it was introduced and 8v8 was removed.
I agree - if you're going to queue for objective based pvp, play objectives. Its that simple. And btw I'm a 6 year veteran of this game, and when i go dps, i end up guarding about 50-75% of the time.

Its simple, i want to win.

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alexsamma
10.13.2018 , 11:27 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Totemdancer View Post
And both of those groups are selfish and ruin reg pvp. They also teach new players and noobs the wrong way to play regs because they look at these good players and think thatís how pvp works in this game.
That is part of the reason regs are so rubbish to begin with and why Ranked arena as a format has been detrimental to 8v8 pvp since it was introduced and 8v8 was removed.
I disagree, the main reason that regs are so bad is that no one is learning how to actually pvp so you end up with two types of newbs:

1: Newbs that can't pvp or click on nodes
2: Newbs that can't pvp but can click on nodes

Neither group is worthwile when they are forced to go against experienced/skilled players who both know how to pvp and click on nodes.

Most veteran players find little sense of accomplishment in winning a reg match vs players that could be interchanged with bots (actually a bot might out play the average player you encounter in regs...).

I always find it funny when people talk about 8vs8 ranked because most games, when ~evenly matched teams fought each other, were determined by who was better at healing/peeling/killing:

It was rare that decent groups would lose to a cheeky sap cap
Novare was a giant mid fight with the occasional node guard skirmishes
Ancient Hypergates was essentially two small arena skirmishes on the side nodes
Huttball was 100% mid control
Voidstar was a kill farming contest

The only map that was generally determined by objective play was Novare Coast because of the triple node split (whoever capped first would usually win).

If they re-introduced 8vs8 ranked today I truly believe all of the try-hard objective players would be in for a rude awakening because the majority of "death-matchers," ranked-players, and farmers are fully capable of playing objectively and would have the upper hand in the actual pvp engagements (assuming that they could find someone willing to guard a node :P).

Ruhun's Avatar


Ruhun
10.13.2018 , 11:33 PM | #14
No one cares about regs. During the rare times when I try to win at objs one of the pugs ruins the game for us.
It's boring and senseless.
Disappointed in the Cooking of the Duck Meat
Begeren Colony - Shadowlands - Satele Shan
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Totemdancer's Avatar


Totemdancer
10.14.2018 , 12:34 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by alexsamma View Post
I disagree, the main reason that regs are so bad is that no one is learning how to actually pvp so you end up with two types of newbs:

1: Newbs that can't pvp or click on nodes
2: Newbs that can't pvp but can click on nodes

Neither group is worthwile when they are forced to go against experienced/skilled players who both know how to pvp and click on nodes.

Most veteran players find little sense of accomplishment in winning a reg match vs players that could be interchanged with bots (actually a bot might out play the average player you encounter in regs...).

I always find it funny when people talk about 8vs8 ranked because most games, when ~evenly matched teams fought each other, were determined by who was better at healing/peeling/killing:

It was rare that decent groups would lose to a cheeky sap cap
Novare was a giant mid fight with the occasional node guard skirmishes
Ancient Hypergates was essentially two small arena skirmishes on the side nodes
Huttball was 100% mid control
Voidstar was a kill farming contest

The only map that was generally determined by objective play was Novare Coast because of the triple node split (whoever capped first would usually win).

If they re-introduced 8vs8 ranked today I truly believe all of the try-hard objective players would be in for a rude awakening because the majority of "death-matchers," ranked-players, and farmers are fully capable of playing objectively and would have the upper hand in the actual pvp engagements (assuming that they could find someone willing to guard a node :P).
Why do you think the noobs canít pvp these days?
Itís because they are learning by watching people who donít play properly.
That and the fact there they donít learn to pvp first in lowbies and Mids where they should be. (Thatís a Bioware caused problem)

I learnt to play objects the hard way. Against proper objective players who could think strategy and fight at the same time. I would have to grind match after match against them. But I also learnt a great deal from watch them and being able to ask them for advice or help.
None of that happens anymore because the skilled players usually canít be bothered to teach a bunch of arogent noobs whoíve learnt bad habits of death match players or other noobs.
Those that do learn are few and far between because theyíve got no one watch and learn from.

Thatís why we have such a bad class of players in pvp now.
You have those who canít play and donít want to learn
You have those who want to learn but have no one to learn from
You have those who think they know how to play, running around in a group imatating death match people
You have those who think they are good (and arenít) and refuse to listen to advice on how to get better (these people are more detrimental than death match people because they are normally arogent, loud and are enforcing their bad play style on noob players).
You have those death match people who 4v1 global a defender and then all run off and leave the node unguarded.
I can continue with more reasons if you like... but I think that should be enough to make that point.

I like to fight as much as the next person. I relish playing better players because I always learn from them. I would love to have ranked 8v8 come back. It would sort the women or the men from the boys. We could finally have some proper combat while playing to win instead of the crap-fest we have now.
I miss ranked 8v8 with a passion, but it did have its problems. One of those was making it group only. If they had set it up like regs with solo or maximum 4man premades, it would have worked much better. Even if theyíd tried a solo queue like we have for 4v4, it would have been more successful.

The problem with 4v4 as the only outlet for ranked is a lot of those 8v8 people left. The rest of us got stuck playing regs if we want to play objectives. Then you have the arena minded death match players who want to only fight and not play the objectives. I get that, I really do, but go play ranked if you just want to fight. There is an outlet or that play style and bringing it into objective pvp ruins the only outlet objective players have left.

I think the reason a lot of those death match players donít play ranked is they arenít quite good enough or they are scared to look bad. They would prefer to be regstar death matches to look like gods against noobs.
The biggest mistake when they introduced arena was not adding a seperate reg 4v4 queue to accommodate the death match regstars.
Now Bioware have compounded that by removing 4v4 pops unless the queue numbers get really low. I canít really blame the people who prefer arena being annoyed about that and deathmatching in 8v8. But it doesnít mean I like it or that itís not teaching noobs bad habits.

Bioware should never have totally removed 8v8 ranked. They should have either added a solo queue for it like 4v4 has or set it up like reg 8v8. Then there would be an outlet for the better players and the noobs could have a play ground to learn in.
If they had done that when they added 4v4 ranked and also added a 4v4 reg queue, we probably wouldnít have some of the problems we have now and weíd most likely have more players.

At the end of the day, most of the blame for the sad state of pvp is Biowareís fault. But those players who are good and just death match and farm noobs in reg 8v8 are also making a significant contribution to the situation.
Whatís makes this even sadder is a lot of those death squads arenít good players and if they arenít 4v1 on someone, they canít kill them. I canít count how many times I can 1v4 some death squads and they canít kill me for a good amount of time, if at all. That should not even be close to possible,
So these death match squads canít play the objects, they canít fight and they lose because they are 4v1 on people all over the map while the other team holds all 3 nodes and uses one to two people to run the fools all over the map to give their team a numbers advantage.

Totemdancer's Avatar


Totemdancer
10.14.2018 , 12:36 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Ruhun View Post
No one cares about regs. During the rare times when I try to win at objs one of the pugs ruins the game for us.
It's boring and senseless.
Iíve a solution for you, just go play ranked and donít ever queue for regs. Problem solved.

Ruhun's Avatar


Ruhun
10.14.2018 , 12:46 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Totemdancer View Post
Iíve a solution for you, just go play ranked and donít ever queue for regs. Problem solved.
Ranked doesn't always pop. I need to kill time.
Just do better.
Disappointed in the Cooking of the Duck Meat
Begeren Colony - Shadowlands - Satele Shan
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Totemdancer
10.14.2018 , 12:50 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ruhun View Post
Ranked doesn't always pop. I need to kill time.
Just do better.
Ranked would pop all the time if those death match people all queued for ranked instead of being reg stars who need easy kills.

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SwSwine
10.14.2018 , 01:39 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Ruhun View Post
No one cares about regs. During the rare times when I try to win at objs one of the pugs ruins the game for us.
It's boring and senseless.
What is the cost of the skill and experience if one pug can ruin a game for you? You can't count to 8 and know when there is a time to go help a pug before he calls for incoming? Or you don't know how many stealthers are in the other team and what they are supposed to do now when you don't see them?

I actually don't think that people who don't care for reg wins but care to queue regs and go gank whoever they see first can't count to 8. They just want team death match with respawn and use whatever map to simulate this. I also would be happy to play such a map in SWTOR. It just makes no sense to me misusing the map objectives in such a way. Imo going farming mobs on Alderaan is nearly the same fun with rare excetions.

Ruhun's Avatar


Ruhun
10.14.2018 , 01:39 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Totemdancer View Post
Ranked would pop all the time if those death match people all queued for ranked instead of being reg stars who need easy kills.

You wouldn't be easy kills if you got better.
Disappointed in the Cooking of the Duck Meat
Begeren Colony - Shadowlands - Satele Shan
Dead Server General