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Sorcerer/Sage Topic


fabsus's Avatar


fabsus
01.10.2019 , 05:40 AM | #11
why always starting a new topic?

the problem is, that you have to find a way between pve and pvp. in pvp the sorcs'n'sages are performing really well, depending on their skill. but you are very mobile and you have tons of abilities, to get out. also the amount of damage you can do, is insane. so mostly i'm even with a tk sage one of the top dps. but you really should now how to deal with it, true.

and here is the problem. it is not, that the sorcs'n'sages can't, it is their players. and if the majority is failing playing these speccs, there is something wrong with it. so you have to cut of the top players overperforming with it and the bottom, even undercutting basic lightsaberdamage. i slight buff should be okay, and i think that this wouldn't have hugh effects in pvp or pve. but just a lil bit.
but! the sorcs'n'sages needs some changes to the amount of damage, the different abilites are causing. so i often see ppl playing a wrong "rotation" what causes an insance loss of dps. so it is totally true, that wrong played dps sorc/sage is more underperforming, than another wrong played range dps. and here is the buttom we have to push.

so of course the top players would claim, that this is a learn2play topic and they are right with it!
but it doesn't matter, if the majority is failing with this class. so there is a need to change it a bit,
without having a hugh impact.

an example?
many burst spec players forget to use <affliction>. it causes an auto-crit of <thundering blast>! they are still claiming to be good dps players
and even the ones, caring about it, don't use it on multiple targets, even if they know, that <chain lightning> is refreshing the dot. tiny detail, but hugh effect.

so a rework of the sorcs'n'sages is needed: yes.
but there is really no need to push the dps so much, many try to claim.

if they really would increase the dps of them, they need to nerf their mobility and deffs
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VelvetSanity's Avatar


VelvetSanity
01.10.2019 , 06:37 AM | #12
What OP is *really* saying: ďI demand you make sorc/sage FOTM!!!Ē
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Iheaca's Avatar


Iheaca
01.10.2019 , 07:02 AM | #13
And for those who'd rather try doing better with their madness sorc before complaining, are there guide that any of you recommend?
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VelvetSanity's Avatar


VelvetSanity
01.10.2019 , 07:11 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Iheaca View Post
And for those who'd rather try doing better with their madness sorc before complaining, are there guide that any of you recommend?
Try the ones that were suggested to me in this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=958338

I havenít really taken the time to go through them yet, Iíve been busy running alts through class stories to unlock their heroics (legacy dirty kick coming next )
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
01.10.2019 , 08:16 AM | #15
Most of this makes me laugh because any good pvper knows that Sorcs are underperforming compared to all other classes.
Anyone who thinks they are doing great damage should look at the current player base skill lvl in pvp. Most donít know a DCD if it hit them in the head.
Yes there are some exceptional Sorcs players, but they are the top of the 1% still left on the game and will make the worst spec of any class seem OP because of player skill, not because the class is balanced or OP.
For the last 2.5 years Sorcs (especially lightning) have been at the bottom of the pack in pvp with regards to balance and damage. They do have good survivability, but thatís pointless if you canít kill anything.
Any two reasonably good players of similar skill with one on a Sorc and one on just about any other class should equal a loss to the Sorc.
But throw a Sorc against any of the current top 4 classes and itís a slaughter. You can only stay alive for so long till they kill you because here is no way you can do enough damage to kill them. I donít mind playing against OP classes if there is a chance, but when you hit like a wet towel, itís kind of pointless trying. You may as well grab your butt and kiss your ankles. Itís less painful that way.
Iíve played my Sorc for 7 years. First in 8v8 ranked and then 4v4 ranked. Iím no stranger to the class or any class as I play all 24 specs in the game. Iíve seen Sorcs be OP, semi balanced and absolute crap. Sorcs arenít crap at the moment, but they arenít close to being balanced.
A lot of the problems stem from how they compare to other classes in pvp and all the OP survivability that most classes have these days.
I certainly donít want Sorcs to be OP. I hate playing an OP class and so I usually put a class back on the shelf for a bit if it becomes OP.
The only way to balance a lightning Sorc better is to reduce some (not much) of its survivability and increase some of itís burst damage. At the moment the balance is too much in favour of survivability over dps. This shouldnít be that hard to do and would hopefully balance the spec better and put it in the middle of the pack. Instead of dead last.
Lastly, any dummy parsing numbers used since the new gear is irrelevant. Of course they are doing more damage in pve with higher gear, thatís the idea. But in pvp, every other class also got the same boost and they are doing more damage too.
The OP might be slightly over reacting out of frustration. But they arenít wrong when they say they need a buff or better yet, a class balance.

PorsaLindahl's Avatar


PorsaLindahl
01.10.2019 , 08:37 AM | #16
Is this the dps rating list that everyone's looking at and going by?
Spoiler


Or has there been an updated listing with the new armor? Because I can tell you that I've pvp'd with my #16 rating madness sorc in 236-240 mixed armor and have won my share of 1v1's and held my own with up to as many as 3 opponents on many occasions until assistance could arrive. Maybe I was just lucky and all of those other players just sucked and I don't know how to really play at all.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
01.10.2019 , 08:51 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by PorsaLindahl View Post
Is this the dps rating list that everyone's looking at and going by?
Spoiler


Or has there been an updated listing with the new armor? Because I can tell you that I've pvp'd with my #16 rating madness sorc in 236-240 mixed armor and have won my share of 1v1's and held my own with up to as many as 3 opponents on many occasions until assistance could arrive. Maybe I was just lucky and all of those other players just sucked and I don't know how to really play at all.
As a pvper you should know that parsing charts mean jack in pvp, it all comes down to player skill as well as DCDs.
Iíve also won my share of 1v1 against Maraís and Mercs while on my Sorc. But thatís because they were crap. Just the other day I won a 1v3 encounter again a Mara, Merc and another Sorc. I didnít win because Iím a superstar. I won because they were seriously bad.

But none of that matters because itís not about how well or bad you or I play, itís how well the class is balanced and sadly itís not balanced.

Also Bolster has now been increased to 252. So your 236-240 gear is bolstered to to 252, which the majority of people are playing with at the moment. Itís probably the best time to see how balanced the classes are while most people have similar stats.
The best way to do that is find a bunch of people of similar skill and use the guild challenge option. You can then choose 8v8 or 4v4 mode.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
01.10.2019 , 09:21 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by ultimarb View Post
In every meta some specs will be at the bottom...
The meta needs changed, sorcs been at the bottom of the food chain for 2+ years now. How long does the most iconic class in the game must remain feeder for mercs/mara/ops/juggs, well heck, every other DPS class in PVP?

Lightning sorcs have a joke for burst, their added "survivability" only helps them against crappy players, any decent mara/jugg/sniper/merc will destroy a same skilled lightning sorc.

Madness sorcs fair better in killing power but still could use some improvement, if anything just a little more single target damage. I wouldn't mind some serious changing in their abilities too though, the rotation is simple and boring as crap.

As for lightning sorc, actually give them burst that hurts. Even if they got to strip off their awesome survivability the class hits like a wet noodle. It's a fun spec for it's mobility and I always enjoyed the sage spec because of the sounds it made compared to the lightning sorc, and at least it's rotation is quite a bit more interesting than madness spec too, but in PVP the specs damage performance is underwhelming. Sure, it puts up great fluff numbers, you can top the charts, but it's not significant damage.

I still recall vividly how I could just ignore lightning sorcs that were focusing me when I was on my heals, literally just ignore them. Only time they bothered me was when a decent dps was tunneling me, then their added joke damage amounted to something significant.

All DPS ought to have the ability to put enough pressure on a healer that they have to manage their damage quickly, not simply ignore them like some fly buzzing around their face. And it didn't matter what healer I was on, merc heals, sorc heals, I never faced one lightning sorc that troubled me, not one, even the best DPS parsing PVP ling sorcs, I did not care if they were on the other team when I played heals.
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TGaP_Andrey's Avatar


TGaP_Andrey
01.10.2019 , 09:30 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
the rotation is simple and boring as crap
It's a good thing akshuwally.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
01.10.2019 , 09:47 AM | #20
Not sure how anyone can complain about sorcs and sages. They are by far the most versatile class.
  • They have multiple damage mitigation abilities/utilities (bubble, god bubble, cloud mind w/utility, etc).
  • They have not one, but TWO instant heals that cost 1 GCD each (my ruffian scoundrel has to waste 2 gcd's on hots, or roll-heal).
  • They can bubble other players, including tanks.
  • They have a raid buff.
  • They can teleport across the map.
  • They can pull people out of stupid, or toward objectives.

So while their single target dps may not be in the top in either spec, they do excel at multiple target dps. They have very good DoT spreads and/or AoE's.


Anyway, sounds like a L2P issue.
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