Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


Lodinn's Avatar


Lodinn
06.25.2020 , 01:45 PM | #9911
Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
After all, pretty much all of the difficult FP bosses can be broken down into a combination of several mechanics that already have been used elsewhere in the game.
Most of the time, it's not the mechanic itself, it's the delivery. There is nothing cognitively complex about the umbara last boss, but I'd argue it is out of line because the cheese way of doing it is pretty much the only thing players are universally equipped with for dealing with that. 70-80% hp damage at random group members not coordinated with adds spawn which happens on a separate, hp percentage-related timeline feels overtuned if you don't LOS adds hard. Same-ish with Copero, add waves are interesting but there's not a clear and telegraphed way to deal with them which would scream "hey here's how we designed this" - unlike fire puddles on Stivastin and such. Same with Tython last boss where I constantly seeing groups struggling even if on the surface they get the mechanics right - it's a mix of the mechanical skill, lag issues and healing requirements which are VASTLY different from the bulk of MMFPs and... It's just punishing. If one mistake like standing in bad kills people, on average there will be problems. I wish more people got exposed to Tyrans HM+ so they'd know the importance of positioning, baiting circles and such, that's one severely lacking skill these days.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
Just as mechanics are ignored, roles are often too, a healer there that would be well able to heal the group if they don't park in damaging effects, yet the kolto stations are clicked immediately after getting a mere scratch, tank losing a boss to a DPS, doesn't matter, pop a CD and ignore it.
Oh there's a lot to unpack here. In VM, kolto stations are so good it's massively more beneficial for the group if the healer was just dpsing or, better, came on a dps spec in the first place. Largely the same goes for the tank, actually.
Then there are gear issues - sure thing, most of the time you can keep aggro as a tank but there's just no way you can do it vs a lvl75 person with set bonus, tactical, 30 VE stacks and whatnot with 100% uptime while leveling (why do these geared people run VMs in the first place?.. Beats me).

Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
The rest who really would need some kind of learning experience just follow that, but without the underlying understanding and experience and then wonder why it doesn't work when they are on their own. Most likely causing toxic behaviour and blaming the rest of the group too then. (snip)

And yes, it works there too, but usually only as long there are a few old school players, experienced PvPers, HC or NIM raiders present that carry the group through.
First off, you don't need experienced people to "carry" anyone in a regular SM operation. I mean, we do it as a gig with friends where 2 actually experienced players "carry" 1-2 less experienced ones in 3-4-manning SM ops, but with 8 players you really don't need to go out of your way trying to beat enrage with a DwT and a healer while also filling the mechanics requirements somehow. Many of the relevant mechanics got removed from SM over the years, notably Kephess in TfB, the tower of Hanoi in KP (why BW?..), gate puzzle in DF and so on.

Next, toxic behavior isn't really caused by "doesn't work when they are on their own" as much as it's a trigger. The lack of education and motivation to put some effort in the group content are sure factors.
Worst of all, some of the nicest people I knew from years ago got weathered down in some 5 years of not quitting the game and are now complaining about "the average PUG" as much as the next person. They've lost the will to teach because at this point it feels more futile than ever and is met with (sometimes aggressive) negligence.
Lterri | Estiuette | Shulmanu |Tenebrosa | Fabantou |
Sneitha | Ton'itra | Lodinn | Flèchette | Tiponi |
Pls'taunt | Gjalla/This'is'madness | Guédé | Cornifer
TRE pugging all the way [IMP]

Sarqualin's Avatar


Sarqualin
06.25.2020 , 02:21 PM | #9912
This was too funny not to share.

Kaon MM.

The healer (sage) was obviously new to the game, kept pushing trash with force wave. I then pointed out not to use it as they will die slower that way, still kept doing it. So I jokingly said he should be using force quake as it looks way cooler, unfortunately to no avail. After the "turret boss" tank (shadow) said he hopes the healer will heal more and dps less for next bosses. The Behemoth was really close, luckily we had really good dps. Now the funny part! Bonus boss. Healer couldn't keep up, he was obviously still clueless. We wiped. Healer was told only to heal. We pull, get him to like 30 %. Suddenly I notice the boss is on me and I see the tank using lampost regen. When he had enough hp, taunted it off of me and we killed the damn robot. Funniest thing I've seen in a while . We finished the last boss with just the healer dead, he released and pulled all he could on the way. We all agreed but the healer that it was really unusual run.
Not Good Enough

jedimasterjac's Avatar


jedimasterjac
06.25.2020 , 11:39 PM | #9913
Quote: Originally Posted by Sarqualin View Post
This was too funny not to share.

Kaon MM.

The healer (sage) was obviously new to the game, kept pushing trash with force wave. I then pointed out not to use it as they will die slower that way, still kept doing it. So I jokingly said he should be using force quake as it looks way cooler, unfortunately to no avail. After the "turret boss" tank (shadow) said he hopes the healer will heal more and dps less for next bosses. The Behemoth was really close, luckily we had really good dps. Now the funny part! Bonus boss. Healer couldn't keep up, he was obviously still clueless. We wiped. Healer was told only to heal. We pull, get him to like 30 %. Suddenly I notice the boss is on me and I see the tank using lampost regen. When he had enough hp, taunted it off of me and we killed the damn robot. Funniest thing I've seen in a while . We finished the last boss with just the healer dead, he released and pulled all he could on the way. We all agreed but the healer that it was really unusual run.
Aw shucks, that sounds... not super fun! I feel like Sage is tricky to heal as even if you're an experienced player (compared to the other 2 healers). It's so weird how many people just... don't listen to advice, though.
Quote: Originally Posted by Grand Master Yoda
We are what they grow beyond. That is the burden of all masters.

LordSassafras's Avatar


LordSassafras
07.05.2020 , 07:07 AM | #9914
Last night, a Dread Palace group finder PuG. It took nearly an hour to assemble the group, which consisted of my commando, two guildies (one of who was a vanguard tank), another commando and sage (both dps), and some other randoms.

Early on, there were already some signs of tension while the group was forming - the other commando and another sage dps apparently got into a fight in their whispers. I didn't catch the whole argument, of course, but I glimpsed a few misplaced messages. On the other hand, the tank I recruited didn't know a lick of Dread Palace and was undergeared, but since it was SM, we decided to roll anyway.

The first three bosses went down fine, with the sage and commando continuing to argue mid-fight, this time out in the ops chat about someone's mother. Then at Raptus, the chaos started. The tank failed the first challenge and didn't even go through the challenge portal (our shadow DwT was the one who Raptus chased around and who did most of the "tanking." Raptus proceeds to Force Execute one of our healers out of the arena, while simultaneously wiping the floor with both the tank and two other DPS. Fortunately, we were able to push through and down the boss before a wipe occurred.

Sage then proceeded to complain that nobody rezzed them while we were regrouping. Well, I tried, but ended up falling off the map myself while trying to get line of sight. It was at this point that the tank dropped group without another word and went to do something on fleet. Simultaneously, the sage then starts complaining about not having had a chance to get the loot, to which someone else points out that they can just go back in the portal to get it. After a while of clearing trash to the Dread Council, we get a guardian tank who we finish the op with. Of course, somebody complains about the low frequency of ops-exclusive set bonuses at the end... a position that I could actually agree with, for once.

eabevella's Avatar


eabevella
07.12.2020 , 11:30 PM | #9915
Speaks of toxic players. Vet HS (of course it's HS):

It was a lv75, me (lv75), and two low level players.

The lv75 rushed ahead before we even logged in the map. No greeting, not even dropping a "we run to the tunnel" in the chat. I logged in seeing chains of mobs followed the lv75, already almost to the resetting point.

I thought "oh ****" and ran to the tunnel before the mobs reset. One other player managed it too. But the other wasn't that lucky and died. Forgot if the lv75 waited for him to get to the droid boss or pulled and forced us to 3-man it. Anyway, the lv75 rushed again without waiting for anyone after the droid boss.

I was very unhappy at that point so I stayed with the other two players and thought "if you are so good, try solo it on your own".

The lv75 pulled mobs while the three of us was just about sneaking through the two guards in the corridor right after the droid boss. The sudden entering battle must have surprised one of the players tagging behind me and he triggered the mobs on both ends of the corridor. Now, if we were 3 lv75 players, we could pull it off. But we're not and I'm bad at surprises (took me 3 solid seconds to fully comprehend what had happened), so we died when it's down to two mobs left.

Oh the lv75 died too because she apparently can't deal with the mobs she pulled on her own.

We respawned. The lv75 dropped the first and only line before she dropped group.

"lol you are so bad".

Our little group was quiet before, but now I was pissed. I typed a series of ************** in the chat. The other two players also typed a series of ************** to release their frustration.

I pulled out my lv30 Khem and said "I bet Khem is better than that *****" and resume playing.

Turned out the three of us actually worked pretty good together when no one was being a toxic *****.

We finished the rest of the FP smoothly without anyone died or even dying.

I typed "**** that ***** who dropped we did good" after the reward window pop out because I still felt salty.

The other two agreed. We thanked each other and parted way.

Lesson of the story? Even low level companions are better than lv75 fully geared selfish, toxic players.

lilathrone's Avatar


lilathrone
07.13.2020 , 03:55 AM | #9916
In my case, it's probably me that's the evil guy/noob, but whatever:

Yesterday on the 10000th Taral V run (I have no idea why this always pops in GF), one guy told us at the beginning of the run, that it's his first run and he apologizes if he screws anything up. I am not too experienced myself but I respond with it's not a problem at all just have fun. Now unfortunately we picked one elitist that wanted to break a world record on how fast we can finish, skipped a boss entirely and 99% of mobs. Now of course this is alright, everyone is a speed runner now, but the new player could hardly keep up and pulled some groups occasionally. Every time he did, the other party member responded with ("omg..." , "...........", "???", "AGAIN???").

This made me angry and on the last long cutscene conversation I made sure to watch all of it and let my response time out.

Be more friendly to new players guys!!!!!
My referral link: http://www.swtor.com/r/rnW79S

eabevella's Avatar


eabevella
07.13.2020 , 07:14 AM | #9917
Quote: Originally Posted by lilathrone View Post
In my case, it's probably me that's the evil guy/noob, but whatever:

Yesterday on the 10000th Taral V run (I have no idea why this always pops in GF), one guy told us at the beginning of the run, that it's his first run and he apologizes if he screws anything up. I am not too experienced myself but I respond with it's not a problem at all just have fun. Now unfortunately we picked one elitist that wanted to break a world record on how fast we can finish, skipped a boss entirely and 99% of mobs. Now of course this is alright, everyone is a speed runner now, but the new player could hardly keep up and pulled some groups occasionally. Every time he did, the other party member responded with ("omg..." , "...........", "???", "AGAIN???").

This made me angry and on the last long cutscene conversation I made sure to watch all of it and let my response time out.

Be more friendly to new players guys!!!!!
Those "elite" players are the bad apples here. I'll learn your trick the next time I meet someone like that lol

I've only met good and patient elite players who were patient and helpful when I was greener than a Mirialan so I do the same now that I'm more familiar with the FP. I hate elitist players who ignore or even being hostile to new players. Being rude aside, they actually make the FP run slower because of their elitism and selfishness.

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
07.13.2020 , 10:51 AM | #9918
Speaking of elitists ....
I was in a MM Blood Hunt last night. As soon as we zoned in, the Tank left. So we re-queued and proceeded to clear the trash to the first boss.
After an amazingly short wait we got a new Tank. Things were going well enough. BH is always tough but we did OK, killing the first boss with no wipes. But the tank said in chat something about how we wouldn't have enough DPS for the 3rd boss. OK - ignore a move on. The other DPS suggested it might be because he was only in 290s.
During the part where you do the 3 "challenges" the tank went off by himself at one point, but still no deaths, no wipes.

At Joss and Valk, the first time, the Healer got tossed over the edge and we wiped. (I didn't see it, so no details.)
During the second attempt, at a point where Valk joined the fight, (after the beasts, when it's Joss and Valk together) she caught both of us DPS off guard and knocked us both off before we could react.
The tank started to mouth off again and the 290 DPS decided it was his fault and he should leave, even though getting knocked off had nothing to do with his gear level.
The Tank started to say something about how things should go better now, but I said, "no, because I don't like to group with ******es" and then I left too.

Bottom line - yes, maybe the other dps wasn't the best, but the Healer was doing fine and we were progressing quite well and every indication was that we would complete the FP just fine. But, I guess we just weren't 'leet' enough for the tank. 🙄
Hold water, a sieve may not, but hold another sieve, it will - Yoda..

Referral code - http://www.swtor.com/r/dZ8wSV

eabevella's Avatar


eabevella
07.13.2020 , 09:40 PM | #9919
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
Speaking of elitists ....
I was in a MM Blood Hunt last night. As soon as we zoned in, the Tank left. So we re-queued and proceeded to clear the trash to the first boss.
After an amazingly short wait we got a new Tank. Things were going well enough. BH is always tough but we did OK, killing the first boss with no wipes. But the tank said in chat something about how we wouldn't have enough DPS for the 3rd boss. OK - ignore a move on. The other DPS suggested it might be because he was only in 290s.
During the part where you do the 3 "challenges" the tank went off by himself at one point, but still no deaths, no wipes.

At Joss and Valk, the first time, the Healer got tossed over the edge and we wiped. (I didn't see it, so no details.)
During the second attempt, at a point where Valk joined the fight, (after the beasts, when it's Joss and Valk together) she caught both of us DPS off guard and knocked us both off before we could react.
The tank started to mouth off again and the 290 DPS decided it was his fault and he should leave, even though getting knocked off had nothing to do with his gear level.
The Tank started to say something about how things should go better now, but I said, "no, because I don't like to group with ******es" and then I left too.

Bottom line - yes, maybe the other dps wasn't the best, but the Healer was doing fine and we were progressing quite well and every indication was that we would complete the FP just fine. But, I guess we just weren't 'leet' enough for the tank. 🙄
This is why I am hesitant to try MM. I am in a small guild and I am the only person online when I play because of the time zone so there's no way to practice. I don't want to be yelled at in MM because it's more difficult to form a group.

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
07.13.2020 , 10:24 PM | #9920
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
Speaking of elitists ....
I was in a MM Blood Hunt last night. As soon as we zoned in, the Tank left. So we re-queued and proceeded to clear the trash to the first boss.
After an amazingly short wait we got a new Tank. Things were going well enough. BH is always tough but we did OK, killing the first boss with no wipes. But the tank said in chat something about how we wouldn't have enough DPS for the 3rd boss. OK - ignore a move on. The other DPS suggested it might be because he was only in 290s.
During the part where you do the 3 "challenges" the tank went off by himself at one point, but still no deaths, no wipes.

At Joss and Valk, the first time, the Healer got tossed over the edge and we wiped. (I didn't see it, so no details.)
During the second attempt, at a point where Valk joined the fight, (after the beasts, when it's Joss and Valk together) she caught both of us DPS off guard and knocked us both off before we could react.
The tank started to mouth off again and the 290 DPS decided it was his fault and he should leave, even though getting knocked off had nothing to do with his gear level.
The Tank started to say something about how things should go better now, but I said, "no, because I don't like to group with ******es" and then I left too.

Bottom line - yes, maybe the other dps wasn't the best, but the Healer was doing fine and we were progressing quite well and every indication was that we would complete the FP just fine. But, I guess we just weren't 'leet' enough for the tank. 🙄
It's worth pointing out here that the third boss of Blood Hunt MM has no enrage timer, as far as I'm aware - at least, I've never in my life seen a group hit it, and I have healed for some very low-dps BH MM groups. I believe that only the first boss has an enrage timer, and it is very forgiving at this point in the game's life cycle.

High damage does help on the second boss because of how difficult it is for some tanks to handle both bosses at the same time in the final phase. If dps burn Jos before the tank and heals get overwhelmed, the fight becomes very easy. But a good tank and healer can handle that fight regardless of dps level. In reality, that fight is about positioning, as you found out.

Bad positioning is, in theory, the easiest thing to fix in an FP. You're not micromanaging someone else's rotation, and you're not magically raising their item rating, you're just telling them where to stand and move. But bad positioning, in my experience, is also one of the things that weaker players are most resistant to changing. No matter how polite and nonconfrontational your advice is, a large portion of players with bad positioning just will not improve. Perhaps they lack situational awareness, or they get too overwhelmed by their rotation to think about moving when they need to, or maybe they simply don't really care. This is why Jos/Valk and Project Sav-Rak are such pug killers: they are fights that require specific movements at specific times.

Don't get me wrong: that tank sounds like a jerk and leaving the group sounds like the healthy response. But, having suffered through players who could not stand in the right spots to save their lives, I am at least a little sympathetic for the annoyance the tank must have felt. Then again, if so many people were getting KBed off the edge, maybe the tank was fighting in the wrong spot.
Quote: Originally Posted by eabevella View Post
This is why I am hesitant to try MM. I am in a small guild and I am the only person online when I play because of the time zone so there's no way to practice. I don't want to be yelled at in MM because it's more difficult to form a group.
MM groups are typically more forgiving than vet groups, because vet gf has far more people who are just in it to speedrun for tech frags, but it's important to let people know that you're new at the start of the FP, so they know that they need to walk you through things. I say "more" forgiving because there are plenty of people who get aggro about speeding through MMs, too - there are just fewer of them than there are in vets.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"