To make it simple for Bioware and to assist Eric out in his compilation of critical information regardng 6.0 and the crafting feedback I have condensed what people are saying about 6.0 crafting and changes they are begging for. Many people don't check the PTS forums or have the time to play on the PTS, so for those people who want to know the status of crafting in 6.0 right now as it stands, here you go.

For anyone interested, Darev added simple instructions on how you can check out crafting or any other changes 6.0 will be bringing for that matter:

 

Please get on PTS. Download it overnight while you sleep, log in, play around.

 

Getting mats for crafting is pretty easy, just buy stacks of 9999 stims from the Odessen vendor and RE them for jawa scrap junk. You get free credits from the terminal on Odessen so you can do that as often as you like.

 

 

• Make your new toon, transfer your existing one using the PTS transfer option in your account settings here on the forum.
   
   
  
• Get your toon to Odessen.
   
   
  
• Click the terminal to get to level 75
   
   
  
• Go to fleet to learn your crafting to allow you to level up to 700
   
   
  
• Go back to Odessen to get more free credits, more stacks of stims to RE...and craft your heart out.
  

Now for comments regarding the state of crafting according to the players testing it on the PTS:

You are expecting people to sit on PTS 8 to 16 hours a day each day, minus downtime to grind out what ever is needed to purchase, scavenged, or complete an insane amount of conquest just to get the bare minimum of mats each and every week over multiple weeks, allowing them now the ability to craft a couple special items. And how do you perceive that the PvPrs will be able to procure the mats? You gonna force them to run FPs? Come on Eric......This is a HORRIBLE experience and quite frankly needs a high level of concern and a new strategy to ensure that the crafter's do not leave the game when 6.0 is implemented.

Crafting Costs: Both rare/purple mats being in Green grinding items and the dramatic increase for overall resource costs. They're not budging (jawa scrap vendor costs)

It took me 6 cargo holds + my normal inventory of materials and jawa junk as well as 2 hours of missions and crafting cell graft to learn the new schematic for 1 reusable attack adrenal I started to wonder how disconnected the developers were from the player base. It seems that there is simply just a lot of new materials just "because" without them actually having a purpose, apart from making crafting more time consuming of course.

The new system is just not viable. Every green gear mat requirement is just too high, rare blue and purples? That is just insane. Its the same as if in live crafting a green 210 required several isotopes and 20 CMTs!!!!! How come you are ignoring this? You keep saying more mats more junk; STOP THE INFLATION, just LOWER COST. Have you seen the steps and mats requirements to craft even single biochem consumables.

In the past you reduced the amount of mats per tier due they being to MANY, and now you plan to add even more? For what ever reason?

First off, the cost to craft the basic green components/cell grafts/etc. are way too high, and need to be reverted to the 2/2/2 cost of every other tier. You can't just increase the cost of the most fundamental crafting item by FIVE TIMES and expect everything else to be fine. When you need three of the premium components to craft a prototype, and three prototypes to craft an artifact, that means you need 90 of each green mat to craft a single artifact component. That is just way, way too high.

 

Second, the number of rare materials required for everything is also completely impractical. The numbers for artifact and legendary schematics need to come down. More importantly, the correct number of flashpoint, Ops, or Conquest materials needed to craft Premium and Prototype gear is ZERO. Any other number is wrong, and will completely break crafting.

 

Third, the Reverse Engineering chance needs to be completely re-evaluated. Right now, Prototype Gear is vastly more difficult to make than for any prior tier, but the lower RE chance means you will go through way more Prototype items trying to learn the Artifact schematics. End result is the cost of learning a schematic is going to be astronomical. I'm talking orders of magnitude higher than the cost of learning schematics for Grade 10.

 

Seriously, we're going to be looking at millions of credits for a stack of artifact Stims, where a similar stack of their Grade 10 counterparts would be <100,000. Considering the hilariously marginal stat improvement, nobody is going to buy the Grade 11s, and nobody is going to waste their time crafting them.

It feels very much like BW is trying to 'adjust' crafting to compensate for players sitting on huge quantities of materials, but the only thing that's going to do is punish every single 'normal' player out there. Or, like others in this and other threads have posted, no-one at BW has actually bothered to 'organically' craft something in PTS.

Eric, again it seems the team is missing the point of all the feedback that has been given. Keep the same systems and costs in place that are currently on live, just add the new grade 11 mats. Not 3 versions of each type of grade 11 mat, and not the ridiculous amounts of conquest and ops mats that are needed for basic, entry level gear. Those types of mats should only be required when you get to the highest versions of the craftable items.

 

It is currently an insult to players that 20 of the new conquest reward mat are needed to craft a single basic level augment. Since no one has even been able to craft or RE one yet on the PTS (with the nice change in lowering the % chance of learning the next tier of an item), how many conquest mats are needed for the legendary (gold) version of the new augments? Somewhere around 60+ is my guess, for a single item, that players need 14 of to set their gear up.

You should not be trying to use crafting as another multifaceted time and credit sink, all it is going to do is destroy it.

Agreed (on the "why bother testing"). Adjusting the nodes and crew missions is insignificant. Are there any real meaningful changes in the works? That would be useful to know Eric.

if you're REALLY going to keep those 40 rare mats in the mix for GREEN 270 items, crafting is dead with 6.0

But just reading Eric response we can see they are completely delusional about this crafting system. Thinking the problem is gathering nodes and mission time is dumb; or at least is dumb thinking we can find that a proper answer. We all have given a lot of feedback (some people have been very detailed) and the core issues has been completely ignored.

The costs for grade 11 crafting are absurdly high. I'm sure BW don't want to put work into a system only to break it. But, as it stands, BW's target audience with these changes seems to be people who enjoy suffering, and no one else.

Given that we also only have a month until 6.0 drops, I don't think a responsible feedback-giver can adopt a wait-and-see approach. I think it's really important that the message be carried very clearly back to the team handling crafting that increasing the amount of mats that drop from gathering or missions is not going to be sufficient to fix this system. The only way to fix this is to lower the materials COST. There is nothing within reason you can do to increase the amount of mats we get that is going to actually achieve any sort of parity with the costs as you've currently designed them. Oh, don't make Grade 11 components required in the cost of war supplies. We did the math on that too. Spoiler alert: it completely breaks things.

There are just not enough nodes on the map. I stopped farming mats when you moved the level 10 mats to Iokath as it was not worth the time. Roughly one hour got me about 75 crystals per color and various other mats. Not that I can tell since it does not post in chat what I looted. Please make the rank 11 mats and the schematic requirements match all the other ranks. Crafting takes long enough as it is and no green should ever, ever, ever, include a rare purple in its construction. Leave this in and many will just stop crafting making the situation even worse as most things you can craft are not worth the time or the mats to craft for so little gain. Please fix this nightmare and listen to the ones who took the time to see how horrible it truly is.

I'm starting to wonder if the Devs intention is to keep us at Grade 10 Augs, Stims, healthpacs, ect. Cause no one other then high member guilds will be able to make the Grade 11 stuff. I can guarantee you that if someone is able to make something grade 11, it will be sold on the GTN for hundreds of millions credits, no less. The only people who could afford them are gold farmers who are moving their money around.

You will drive some players away. I don't know how many or even it really matters to you. It seems like your going out of your way to get rid of people. There is some good QOL but not worth dealing with the rest of what you might implement. It is PTS so it isn't the final product but I've seen what has happened in the past. It is your game so it is up to you.

I was really hoping that 6.0 would reintroduce more reasonable crafting, but this is more of the same. It's all nice and good to make more nodes on Onderon, but it doesn't mean anything when every crafter will be fighting for them, and when the recipes still require way too many mats, including ones from Conquest. Crafting should be fun. This is not fun. So what is the goal? I feel the same as I did with Ossus; I'm not even going to bother trying to craft anything new.

Let us know when you've made real changes on PTS for us to test. Nothing about crafting on PTS is remotely fun even with unlimited credits.

It's as if Eric and the devs think all we do is play SWTOR all day. They forget we have jobs too and real life responsibilities. (Not all of us, but most of the community anyway.) We don't have 100+hours a week to be screwing around doing all this crap. It's no wonder players have found third party macro apps to click the screen to automate the crafting, and gathering of materials (sending on missions). I know eric and crew don't like or want this, and since these macros don't manipulate the game directly (they automate mouse movement and clicks) they are skirting EULA. But honestly, what choice are you (Eric) and the devs giving us?

I just want them to remove the purple conquest mats from the mundane crafting items. You need 20 to make 1 green 274 item?? That’s either 20 weeks on one character or 1 week on 20 Alts to make one green item you’ll never use because you will have already passed the gear lvl and no one else will be crazy enough to pay the price you would need to sell it for. The whole thing is totally ludicrous. I got on to specifically test crafting and I can’t even make anything because the only way to get those mats is 20 conquest mats. Prefer if they just removed them entirely. Who in there right mind is going to spend 20 weeks or 20 Alts worth of Conquest rewards to make a 274 green item they will never wear and nobody will pay the price for? The development of this crafting system is so disconnected from the reality of how people play swtor, that I have to wonder if anyone on the crafting team actually plays swtor and / or is a dedicated crafter.

I have crafted in the game since launch. It has seen several overhauls and updates over the years, some good some not so good, but in general it is workable and enjoyable. 6.0 will change all that. Requiring MM FP/Ops and Conquest materials to make basic items which have no use except to be RE'd to get a better schematic is completely insane. I have no idea how any game designer could think that this is a workable system. Tinkering with nodes and missions does absolutely nothing to address this. Those types of materials should only be required when crafted items RE'd from drops in that content, as it is now in other grades. Grade 11 should follow the same pattern as the other grades, just with grade 11 materials.

Summary - They have totally removed crafting from the game.

Well after I finally was at a place 10 hours later where I could actually craft something like an augment I was saddened when I saw that I have to do conquest 5 times.....I am done with PTS as I wont be crafting stims adrenals, and MK11s without having to run conquest.........THIS IS FRACKING PTS ........ not production.....goodbye PTS

As you can see, countless different posters are saying the same thing, it's not just a small group of naysayers.

I am adding Citrienne's detailed feedback post here last, so people can give it a good read in case they missed it buried in the PTS forums section. It's very detailed and long so I added it last.

Citrienne's Feedback Post from PTS 6.0 crafting:

Sambril sums up the proposed changes nicely (my emphasis in bold).

RIP Crafting

 

I have crafted in the game since launch. It has seen several overhauls and updates over the years, some good some not so good, but in general it is workable and enjoyable.

 

6.0 will change all that. Requiring MM FP/Ops and Conquest materials to make basic items which have no use except to be RE'd to get a better schematic is completely insane. I have no idea how any game designer could think that this is a workable system. Tinkering with nodes and missions does absolutely nothing to address this. Those types of materials should only be required when crafted items RE'd from drops in that content, as it is now in other grades.

 

Grade 11 should follow the same pattern as the other grades, just with grade 11 materials.

So, what you're saying is: no - we can't stop! You're going to stamp your feet until you get your way.

But nice try sneaking in multiple posts from some people, but it's still only 19 people out of how many users?

So, what you're saying is: no - we can't stop! You're going to stamp your feet until you get your way.

 

But nice try sneaking in multiple posts from some people, but it's still only 19 people out of how many users?

Not sure what your beef is with Lhance, but this one is spot on. Go to the crafting threads on PTS. They're tanking it & aren't changing it very much at all, contrary to what they're doing with feedback in regards to other areas of the game.

If this is a "play your way" patch, they aren't accommodating the crafters at all. In fact they're getting spit on & tossed out the door into the mud.

These changes are beyond ridiculous. No one wants to have to WORK inside a game just to craft things be it for what they need, to sell or just pass along.

You don't need millions of attempts to craft & RE to finally get the final piece only then to have to gather more special mats for it... (Yes that is exaggerating to an extent but you get the point).

So, what you're saying is: no - we can't stop! You're going to stamp your feet until you get your way.

 

But nice try sneaking in multiple posts from some people, but it's still only 19 people out of how many users?

These are all PTS posts he is referring to, or mostly PTS. So unless most of the game’s population is on the PTS, I can’t see many people posting there,

Maybe get on the PTS and test it yourself and provide some actual feed back to Bioware instead of you and Oleg sniping at people from the side lines.

Maybe get on the PTS and test it yourself and provide some actual feed back to Bioware instead of you and Oleg sniping at people from the side lines.

I've already stated elsewhere that I have no intention to play on the PTS.

1. I don't want to be bored of 6.0 before it even launches.

2. I think the devs have many sources of feedback besides just forum posters. Like past subscriber numbers, professional testers, etc. Disney have already trashed the movies, maybe BW will trash the game - oh well, it was fun. My greatest concern atm is what game I'd play next if this one is trashed. (But I doubt it will be for me, at least. In any case, I'm willing to wait and see.)

3. Most of the complaints seem to come from PvP'ers, and "raiders" who seem to want insta-gear and insta-crafting, so they can just get on with PvP'ing and raiding rather than playing the RPG aspects.

4. I think some of the starters and posters in these threads are just trolling.

I've already stated elsewhere that I have no intention to play on the PTS.

1. I don't want to be bored of 6.0 before it even launches.

2. I think the devs have many sources of feedback besides just forum posters. Like past subscriber numbers, professional testers, etc. Disney have already trashed the movies, maybe BW will trash the game - oh well, it was fun. My greatest concern atm is what game I'd play next if this one is trashed. (But I doubt it will be for me, at least. In any case, I'm willing to wait and see.)

3. Most of the complaints seem to come from PvP'ers, and "raiders" who seem to want insta-gear and insta-crafting, so they can just get on with PvP'ing and raiding rather than playing the RPG aspects.

4. I think some of the starters and posters in these threads are just trolling.

If you aren’t going to bother testing it yourself, then you really have no right to tell people who are testing to stop posting their thoughts.

Instead of attacking people with snippy or snide comments, be constructive and test. If you can’t be bothered to do that, then you’ve got no validity with your comments.

You say people are trolling, but you are the only one here making those uncalled for remarks in each thread and the one who refuses to test or back up what they are saying with facts from the PTS.

You tell me who the trolls are, I know it’s not Lhance or me or Darev or any of the other people who’ve properly tested on the PTS.

If you aren’t going to bother testing it yourself, then you really have no right to tell people who are testing to stop posting their thoughts.

On the other hand, there is a PTS forum where you can post to your heart's content. There's also a "Suggestions" forum where you can make suggestions.

My main complaint is with people cluttering up General Discussion with thread after thread whining about BW not listening to "them".

The trolls seem to be the posters with the most colourful signatures. 🙄

(But, perhaps it's just a matter of needing attention.)

My main complaint is with people cluttering up General Discussion...

I just want to make it clear that people have been providing detailed feedback to BW regarding 6.0. General Section gets far more exposure, so these posts/threads/comments ought to be posted somewhere with more views not buried in a less read part of the forums.

It's important to put the information where people can see it, because unfortunately a lot of the very well-written threads and posts regarding 6.0 don't get much exposure in the PTS forum section.

Seeing how confused you are with how forums work let me help you out, JQ. Gaming forums are where people express how they feel, what they think, what they like or dislike about a game. Yes, criticisms are part of the process, too.

Also you may or may not agree with other forumquesters, or where they place their threads but that's up to the mods to handle, not you. I respect the fact you worry about how cluttered the forums are, but, as they say... "stay in your lane, bro."

I'd like to also point out you poo-pooing on threads that you think are poo-poo isn't constructive at all. I assume you want the game to succeed and improve, too, right? So how is making information more easily available for others bad? Will the clutter of the forums impede or damage the game in some way?

If you think something else ought to be added to the discussion regarding 6.0, why not add to that conversation; whether it's to support 6.0 changes or to criticize their proposed changes you ought to try to be constructive, be better to your fellow posters here we are all on the same team, after all.

P.S. People make their sigs colorful to draw attention to them, like a sign. Most people have their referral links there, or some other link they want to be clicked on so that is the reason most use colorful signatures on the forums. Pointing out they are seeking attention with their "colorful" sigs is a bit redundant, because of course they want the sig to draw attention. Maybe you knew this, or not. Hopefully this helps you understand why colors are used for forum sigs!

2. I think the devs have many sources of feedback besides just forum posters. Like past subscriber numbers, professional testers, etc.

They may, but there is nothing out there stating they do either. Especially seeing as for the most part they seem to be listening to the changes asked upon in the PTS area. (Aside from the crafting changes for some reason.)

Also, what does past sub numbers have to do with PTS testing?! Non-Subs can not access the PTS. So that has no bearing here.

3. Most of the complaints seem to come from PvP'ers, and "raiders" who seem to want insta-gear and insta-crafting, so they can just get on with PvP'ing and raiding rather than playing the RPG aspects.

Wait...What?! lol PvPers, and Raiders are the biggest player base that is worried about the changes! *face palm* The story based crew doesn't really care about the gearing changes as they can still do their story the way they want. *smh* That's just one illogical statement there JQ.

On the rare front, I do agree with Trixxie, and Lhance.

You don't have to respond if you don't like it. You may not like what they suggest, that's your right & you can say so. But to just come in here & go off topic in ways just because you don't agree, that's not forum etiquette.

I just want to make it clear that people have been providing detailed feedback to BW regarding 6.0. General Section gets far more exposure, so these posts/threads/comments ought to be posted somewhere with more views not buried in a less read part of the forums.

 

It's important to put the information where people can see it, because unfortunately a lot of the very well-written threads and posts regarding 6.0 don't get much exposure in the PTS forum section.

 

Seeing how confused you are with how forums work let me help you out, JQ. Gaming forums are where people express how they feel, what they think, what they like or dislike about a game. Yes, criticisms are part of the process, too.

 

Also you may or may not agree with other forumquesters, or where they place their threads but that's up to the mods to handle, not you. I respect the fact you worry about how cluttered the forums are, but, as they say... "stay in your lane, bro."

 

I'd like to also point out you poo-pooing on threads that you think are poo-poo isn't constructive at all. I assume you want the game to succeed and improve, too, right? So how is making information more easily available for others bad? Will the clutter of the forums impede or damage the game in some way?

 

If you think something else ought to be added to the discussion regarding 6.0, why not add to that conversation; whether it's to support 6.0 changes or to criticize their proposed changes you ought to try to be constructive, be better to your fellow posters here we are all on the same team, after all.

 

 

P.S. People make their sigs colorful to draw attention to them, like a sign. Most people have their referral links there, or some other link they want to be clicked on so that is the reason most use colorful signatures on the forums. Pointing out they are seeking attention with their "colorful" sigs is a bit redundant, because of course they want the sig to draw attention. Maybe you knew this, or not. Hopefully this helps you understand why colors are used for forum sigs!

Lhance, I’ve just put him on ignore. He is clearly trolling and we are all taking the bait. If he had such a problem with people posting he would just ignore the threads.

3. Most of the complaints seem to come from PvP'ers, and "raiders" who seem to want insta-gear and insta-crafting, so they can just get on with PvP'ing and raiding rather than playing the RPG aspects.

I try to read most posts here and on Reddit. In neither location have I seen a single person asking for insta-crafting. What I see are people begging for crafting to be no worse than it currently is. Crafting is already in a pretty bad place, but instead of getting improvements, it's getting completely trashed. It is not unreasonable for crafters to want to be able to craft the first tier of green junk armor quickly and easily, like they had been able to do since this game launched. FYI crafting transcends play styles and the crafting changes hurt all of them, solo/RP players the most.

I haven't even looked on Reddit to see what is being said there...good or bad.

Reddit can be a good gauge reactions too because only subs can post here. Preferred and F2P can post on Reddit to fill in some of the “blanks” about how they actually feel.

The only problem I have with Reddit is the up and down voting and topics dropping off unless they are reported (which is against the sub Reddit rules).

You can down vote which makes some posts invisible (unless you click it), which can stifle debate and can also encourage trolls or discourage (I can never decide which it does the most).

The Reddit posts I’ve seen so far arent glowing endorsements of the new gearing or crafting. If anything, they can be more critical.

I've already stated elsewhere that I have no intention to play on the PTS.

1. I don't want to be bored of 6.0 before it even launches.

2. I think the devs have many sources of feedback besides just forum posters. Like past subscriber numbers, professional testers, etc. Disney have already trashed the movies, maybe BW will trash the game - oh well, it was fun. My greatest concern atm is what game I'd play next if this one is trashed. (But I doubt it will be for me, at least. In any case, I'm willing to wait and see.)

3. Most of the complaints seem to come from PvP'ers, and "raiders" who seem to want insta-gear and insta-crafting, so they can just get on with PvP'ing and raiding rather than playing the RPG aspects.

4. I think some of the starters and posters in these threads are just trolling.

1. If you don't do any research beforehand, why would anyone take you seriously? You have no basis to attack Lhance or any of these other guys for their posting if you're unwilling to take the time to look into it yourself. You don't want to play PTS? Great. Then this is irrelevant to you, why are you here? OCD?

Now, I'm not on the PTS either. I don't really care about the changes. They're mostly end-game, and won't drastically affect me, and I also think it's futile to complain anyway, because BW is a runaway train wreck dead set on making these stupid changes. But conversely, I a) don't think I'm representative of the population that clearly does care about end-game and b) don't derail these threads solely because I personally don't get much out of them. Be more like me.

2. As I've said elsewhere, there's no point having a PTS forum if BW won't listen to criticisms.

On a related topic, I have a hunch that a lot of this pointless angst, critics criticizing critics [it comes up frequently on here] is due to some pedantic nonsense that players like you are irked that Lhance and others are speaking on their behalf, i.e 'the players think this' or 'we didn't ask for this'. Well, congratulations, your individual voice has been duly tallied among the dissenters. You don't need to keep harping on about it.

3. No one asks for insta-gear. No one. This is a common complaint on these forums, but we only ever hear of posters complaining about them, not people asking for it. It's something of a trope among the forum conservatives.

4. You certainly are, but the first step is admitting it, so good on you.

Slicing give Green Stuff to craft. I use slicing to catch some mouney for fun when I'm bored and doing heroic.

I do not craft. Ever .

So add that plz to your list.

I am curious. While I tend to feel the crafting is rather inaccessible I would ask, from those who actually ran it on the PTS (and not people who just want to interject) ==> Is it better, worse or about the same since 6.0 went live?

there are slight differences, but it's bad in both instances

there are slight differences, but it's bad in both instances

Just curious, honestly why bad ? I have top end crit augments. 5 gold bichem schems. Green matts are dropping much better now. Do we expect to have every item topped out and cheap less than a Month into the expansion ?

What are your honest expectations?

Do you really want it to be easy mode ?

Most of the fixes people ask for on here are a joke. Crafting in other games is and was way more challenging than it is here.

Egrecrs

You were shot down on the other post and you have to come here and start the same stuff?

They jumped on JediQuaker you think you will fair better here?

The main point you are failing to see is the system is broken and inconsistent between different crafts, levels, missions, and requirements.

Add something that needs to be changed or properly defend how you get more greens then blues or purples? And lucky you if you have five gold schematics for Biochem.

That you have been gone from the game over the last two and a half years tells me more than we need to know, or just F2P all this time which I doubt.

Just curious, honestly why bad ? I have top end crit augments. 5 gold bichem schems. Green matts are dropping much better now. Do we expect to have every item topped out and cheap less than a Month into the expansion ?

 

What are your honest expectations?

 

Do you really want it to be easy mode ?

 

Most of the fixes people ask for on here are a joke. Crafting in other games is and was way more challenging than it is here.

may i ask: did you bring multiple billions of credits into 6.0 and bought the mats you need?

or did you farm them? if you farm them, how many hours did you spend for pure gathering?

do you think the average player has the amount of credits/time to buy/farm these mats?

i´m asking because i went through that process myself and burned through 600kk credits (no all of them spent for mats tho) and atleast 50hrs of farming/crafting the last two weeks to get all biochem schematics.

i also did conquests with 16 toons this week, just to waste 96 SRMs on blue augments ending up without any purple schematic.

do you think the average player will be pleased with the time needed to farm these mats, not to mention grinding 15+ toons through conquest each week? do you think he can even get any augment schematic before the next expansion is launched?

little exaggeration on my side ofc, and i might got unlucky with the augment schematics, but i think you gonna get my point.

oh i forgott there is still the option to buy the augs from GTN for about 15kk each, just takes about 10hrs of H2 grind per augment, besides paying for set pieces, rolling amps, or removing mods.