OK, Merc DPS in general has been fixed. Lets move on. Merc heals. Eric Musco, any word please? I tested all three healing clases (and merc is the only level 50 I have on live which has a healing tree) and it is significantly weaker than the other two. Honestly if you stat right your numbers can be on par with the other two, but merc heals heat management still needs some help. Just add a simple skill like operatives have, like "Rapid Shots critical hits vent (1/2) heat while Combat Support Cylinder is active." A two point skill, a simple fix, a dramatic effect.

 

I spent a lot of time leveling my mercenary. He's currenly rotting in the garbage because of how bad merc heals are. I already have sniper as my main rDPS, so there isn't any point in respeccing him either.

Although I am simply ecstatic that we actually have a dev post. Like really really impressed. This is not at all what everyone was worried about. It is cool that you closed the build up, but where are the mobility problems. The biggest of which is a lower cd on electronet. Also, in all honesty we will still have to do more grav rounds to proc full auto. So we'll still have problems with interrupts. Honestly why does it seem the devs simply refuse to give us an ability with temorary interrupt immunity? It's not going to make us OP. It will simply allow us to actually be viable in pvp.

OK, Merc DPS in general has been fixed. Lets move on. Merc heals. Eric Musco, any word please? I tested all three healing clases (and merc is the only level 50 I have on live which has a healing tree) and it is significantly weaker than the other two. Honestly if you stat right your numbers can be on par with the other two, but merc heals heat management still needs some help. Just add a simple skill like operatives have, like "Rapid Shots critical hits vent (1/2) heat while Combat Support Cylinder is active." A two point skill, a simple fix, a dramatic effect.

 

I spent a lot of time leveling my mercenary. He's currenly rotting in the garbage because of how bad merc heals are. I already have sniper as my main rDPS, so there isn't any point in respeccing him either.

 

fixed? whoa now partner, lets not get ahead of ourselves. there is still not even a semblance of interrupt resistance available to Merc DPS. we are still bound to casting endless amounts of tracers. the only thing that changed was the TM -> HSM burst combo now only takes 2 GCDs, rather than 4.

 

the whole class still needs help. one change did not suddenly fix everything wrong with Arsenal Merc. hopefully this is the first step to making Merc more viable. if its all we're getting, the class is still gonna lag behind.

I'm sorry that's what you got out of the post. I assure you the actual and obvious meaning behind the post is something different, but I have a feeling reality is in the backseat to taking out your frustrations on fellow forum members. It's OK.

 

And I'm sorry you got that we wanted 'god mode' out of other posts. I can assure you the actual and obvious requests behind our posts were something different, but I have a feeling reality is in the backseat to you trolling your fellow forum members.

 

It's ok.

And I'm sorry you got that we wanted 'god mode' out of other posts. I can assure you the actual and obvious requests behind our posts were something different, but I have a feeling reality is in the backseat to you trolling your fellow forum members.

 

It's ok.

 

You would benefit from not assuming. Take a step back and not take the god mode comment as an attack on the validity of merc DPS concerns.. It wasn't meant as one. It was clearly meant to put the fix into perspective: a relatively minor change that makes a big deal in PvP, but it wasn't god mode.

 

Stop being paranoid. If anything, my post was in agreement with that there is still more to be done. Sheesh.

Edited March 26, 2013 by ebado

fixed? whoa now partner, lets not get ahead of ourselves. there is still not even a semblance of interrupt resistance available to Merc DPS. we are still bound to casting endless amounts of tracers. the only thing that changed was the TM -> HSM burst combo now only takes 2 GCDs, rather than 4.

 

the whole class still needs help. one change did not suddenly fix everything wrong with Arsenal Merc. hopefully this is the first step to making Merc more viable. if its all we're getting, the class is still gonna lag behind.

 

I can succeed in half-warhero half-recruit on my merc's Arsenal spec. There is a valid point behind the PvP Arsenal complaints but the fact is that half of the merc players are bad and use this as their excuse for underperformance. The good players will come out on top, regardless of class.

 

Believe it or not, there is onl one 'best class'. Fixing Arsenal does not mean making it the best class. There will always be a best and there will always be a worst. Just because the class you play isn't the best does not mean Bioware should make it so.

 

Giving Merc Arsenal an ability which prevents interupts for a certain time is literally giving them 'god-mode'. If there's one thing I hate, it's bias. Balancing does not mean making your class overpowered. It's keeping all of the classes at the same general level. Perhaps this has not been mentioned to you yet. When we refer to balancing, we are talking about balancing each class against the others, not balancing the class you play against your apparent inability to play the class to its full potential.

 

Merc Arsenal is already fixed for PvE now, as of the recent changes. It is still slightly unbalanced for PvP. There's a few good ways to improve their PvP capabilities without changing PvE very much. Interupt immunity is not one of them. I personally recommend making the... uh... whatever it's called, that Powertech speed boost ability (which I believe is also immunity to interupts, but that doesn't matter too much) available to mercs as well. The point of ranged DPS is not to give them buffs so they can turret and not have to move at all. There's a specific class for that: sniper. The rest of the classes should have ESCAPE abilities, NOT immunity abilities.

 

 

Regardless, I really don't care much about Merc DPS. I don't plan on using it so it doesn't affect me very much. I would very much appreciate a dev response to my above post, regarding Merc Heals.

Edited March 26, 2013 by idnewton

You would benefit from not assuming. Take a step back and not take the god mode comment as an attack on the validity of merc DPS concerns.. It wasn't meant as one. It was clearly meant to put the fix into perspective: a relatively minor change that makes a big deal in PvP, but it wasn't god mode.

 

Stop being paranoid. If anything, my post was in agreement with that there is still more to be done. Sheesh.

 

I'm a little touchy right now, because no, this relatively minor change will not make a big deal in PvP. It really won't. As I've already said, the demo round change means about 1k extra damage in limited situations. That's nice, but it is so far from a fix, it'd be hilarious if it wasn't sad.

 

I'm also pissed because right now people are virtually falling over themselves to fellate the devs for communicating, whilst admitting that this actually doesn't fix us - in the hope that we'll get another scrap from the table soon. Hah!

 

Have we learned nothing?

 

This is it. The nerf to pyro, and the tweak to arsenal is IT. This is all we are going to get for many many months. We're done. Forget about any further changes. Forget about any dreams of running ranked with the big bad marauders and co. It's over. The state of class balance on the PTS now is essentially what it'll still be 4+ months down the line after the expansion goes live.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Jherad

This is it. The nerf to pyro, and the tweak to arsenal is IT. This is all we are going to get for many many months. We're done. Forget about any further changes. Forget about any dreams of running ranked with the big bad marauders and co. It's over.

 

A little overly dramatic for a video game, wouldn't you agree?

A little overly dramatic for a video game, wouldn't you agree?

 

The language? The factual basis of my statement? Which bit bothers you?

Any chance that, in addition to what's planned, Power Shot could be modified to add stacks of Tracer Lock as well? It already grants Power Barriers and Barrage, so it's not like there's precedent. But right now, there's still no reason for a Merc not to mostly spam Tracers the same as it is on live, that I can see.

In Eric's defense, Austin Peckenpaugh is pretty horrible at his job.

 

 

Pretty clever of them though. They were technically truthful afterall! Next time PTS comes up I bet there will even be changes!

 

HA! Next time the PTS comes up, they'll still be trying to fix everything that's still broken.

 

Not sure I want to play a game where they've gone from "This is all for you! We do this for YOU!" (the pre-launch stuff from Dr. Ray), and have mysteriously replaced that with "We don't care if you like it or not. It's how things will be. Go ahead, cancel your sub. You already paid us for the expansion".

 

I don't think the game will survive another exodus.

I'm a little touchy right now, because no, this relatively minor change will not make a big deal in PvP. It really won't. As I've already said, the demo round change means about 1k extra damage in limited situations. That's nice, but it is so far from a fix, it'd be hilarious if it wasn't sad.

 

I'm not interested in a semantics argument, but getting off that burst two GCDs quicker is useful in PvP. That's the last I'm going to say about it. If the game gets you this riled up, it might be best to take a step back for a bit. I'm sorry if that's intrusive. Cheers, I'm done with thread.

getting off that burst two GCDs quicker is useful in PvP.

 

Again, its the difference of about 1k damage (if it crits) if you cast at the same time pre/post tweak. I can agree that an extra 1k is useful, if not exactly game changing. But you don't want to talk semantics.

 

Many people playing mercs/commandos have been agitated by the stupid design decisions taken over the last year, I'm hardly alone in that, and I'm certainly not going to apologise for pointing out that the stupidity is still merrily flowing.

You may be surprised how little the percent of the population of swtor is that actually feels negatively about the merc changes, let alone will unsub because of the. The same people making even more noise than before is not fooling anyone. You represent about .0005% of the swtor community. Merc DPS got a buff and you're complaining, telling people they suck at their job. If you ran any part of this game I doubt there would even be a game to unsub from.

 

Attacking another forumer is against the Code of Conduct. Attacking a developer is absolutely absurd. I would be eagerly awaiting an explaination of your logic if there was any logic to explain.

You may be surprised how little the percent of the population of swtor is that actually feels negatively about the merc changes, let alone will unsub because of the. The same people making even more noise than before is not fooling anyone. You represent about .0005% of the swtor community. Merc DPS got a buff and you're complaining, telling people they suck at their job. If you ran any part of this game I doubt there would even be a game to unsub from.

 

Attacking another forumer is against the Code of Conduct. Attacking a developer is absolutely absurd. I would be eagerly awaiting an explaination of your logic if there was any logic to explain.

 

agreed not just for this class but all of them in general. but then again playing multiple mmo's haters will always find a way to hate anything even if for instance they made mando/mercs lvl 60 and gave them an insta death button or gave sages a spirit bomb (notice the comedic reference) that insta killed everything they thought with their mind they wanted dead and then some.

Heh, this thread has gotten a bit heated since the last I posted on it

 

Anyways, after I went to play Arsenal on live, to try and get a feel for what the changes will do for us, I think the best way to explain to buff is this: It gives us more of a bite to our bark (making the whole mercenary slogan of having the best defence in the galaxy because of our amazing offence actually true anyone remember that?), but I'm not sure if it will get us into rateds. In 2.0, snipers are going to be THE go-to class for ranged dps in rateds, there's really no doubt about that. Now, I'm not trying to condemn us or anything, but I'm just stating that we still don't really bring anything that a rated team can use. Yes, we have Electo Net, but with it's 90s CD, I can't see how one would justify bringing a merc for that and that only.

 

On a brighter note, the change to Tracer Missile is great, and will help out quite a bit imo. If you have a smasher on you, you can root them with Rocket Punch, throw Explosive Dart on them, move away, cast TM then hit them with a fully buffed HSM. That should take a decent amount of health away from them, and it's definatley better than what we have on live. The other survivability additions, such as Hydraulic Override and having Kolto Missile as a baseline should help us in staying away from our opponents, where as on live, all we can really do stun or knockback then run away.

 

Like I said before though, I don't know if it'll get us into ranked. But I don't want to make any quick judgements until we see how this all translates when 2.0 goes live. These changes are a big help, but I hope the devs don't just throw in the towel with mercs and call it a day (which I don't think they will). Overall, I'm very happy with the buff we've been given. A buff! The first actual solid, decent, not-a-nerf-in-disguise buff

You may be surprised how little the percent of the population of swtor is that actually feels negatively about the merc changes, let alone will unsub because of the. The same people making even more noise than before is not fooling anyone. You represent about .0005% of the swtor community. Merc DPS got a buff and you're complaining, telling people they suck at their job. If you ran any part of this game I doubt there would even be a game to unsub from.

 

Attacking another forumer is against the Code of Conduct. Attacking a developer is absolutely absurd. I would be eagerly awaiting an explaination of your logic if there was any logic to explain.

 

I'd wager that the percentage of population of swtor that gives a stuff about the changes is probably close to the percentage of mercs/commandos who have the ability and inclination to run ranked warzones. Probably a small number, I agree. I suspect it doesn't include you.

 

As for your last sentence, I strongly suggest you not attack anyone then.

 

Perfectly ok to call changes idiotic or stupid though. Because, you know, they are. Run along now.

God they give arsenal/gunnery a rather nice buff and people still complain, then again its the PVP community, that's nothing new

 

Rather nice? It's rather nice in the sense that it wasn't a nerf. It was rather nice in that it's a minor QoL buff in PVE, but minor PVP applications aside it's not exactly what I'd call a nice buff. It certainly won't make us ranked viable, and until we are it doesn't matter what else they do to us in PVP.

 

I can succeed in half-warhero half-recruit on my merc's Arsenal spec. There is a valid point behind the PvP Arsenal complaints but the fact is that half of the merc players are bad and use this as their excuse for underperformance. The good players will come out on top, regardless of class.

 

Believe it or not, there is onl one 'best class'. Fixing Arsenal does not mean making it the best class. There will always be a best and there will always be a worst. Just because the class you play isn't the best does not mean Bioware should make it so.

 

Giving Merc Arsenal an ability which prevents interupts for a certain time is literally giving them 'god-mode'. If there's one thing I hate, it's bias. Balancing does not mean making your class overpowered. It's keeping all of the classes at the same general level. Perhaps this has not been mentioned to you yet. When we refer to balancing, we are talking about balancing each class against the others, not balancing the class you play against your apparent inability to play the class to its full potential.

 

Merc Arsenal is already fixed for PvE now, as of the recent changes. It is still slightly unbalanced for PvP. There's a few good ways to improve their PvP capabilities without changing PvE very much. Interupt immunity is not one of them. I personally recommend making the... uh... whatever it's called, that Powertech speed boost ability (which I believe is also immunity to interupts, but that doesn't matter too much) available to mercs as well. The point of ranged DPS is not to give them buffs so they can turret and not have to move at all. There's a specific class for that: sniper. The rest of the classes should have ESCAPE abilities, NOT immunity abilities.

 

 

Regardless, I really don't care much about Merc DPS. I don't plan on using it so it doesn't affect me very much. I would very much appreciate a dev response to my above post, regarding Merc Heals.

 

 

The reason you can succeed in half warhero half recruit isn't evidence that half the merc players are bad. It's evidence that half of ALL players are bad. And they are. On both merc as well as every other class.

 

Also I dunno what you mean about "fixed" in PVE. This didn't really effect our PVE ammo management, which was the main PVE complaint by people. It's a nice QoL thing like I said as far as armor debuff management, but otherwise there was no real PVE change here. Or at least that's how it looks on paper MAYBE SOME TESTING WOULD PROVE I'M WRONG!

 

The powertech speed boost ability? You mean Hydraulic Overrides? Yeah we already are getting that in 2.0. It doesn't provide interrupt immunity (which btw what do you mean interrupt immunity isn't a way to help PVP without changing PVE? Interrupt immunity would do NOTHING big in PVE. The bosses aren't falling over themselves to interrupt us).

 

Look you have a perfectly viable question regarding Merc heals, but you're talking out of your butt on DPS and should probably just shut the hell up.

 

I'm a little touchy right now, because no, this relatively minor change will not make a big deal in PvP. It really won't. As I've already said, the demo round change means about 1k extra damage in limited situations. That's nice, but it is so far from a fix, it'd be hilarious if it wasn't sad.

 

I'm also pissed because right now people are virtually falling over themselves to fellate the devs for communicating, whilst admitting that this actually doesn't fix us - in the hope that we'll get another scrap from the table soon. Hah!

 

Have we learned nothing?

 

This is it. The nerf to pyro, and the tweak to arsenal is IT. This is all we are going to get for many many months. We're done. Forget about any further changes. Forget about any dreams of running ranked with the big bad marauders and co. It's over. The state of class balance on the PTS now is essentially what it'll still be 4+ months down the line after the expansion goes live.

 

That fellating comment better not be aimed at me =P

 

It's a nice change. I dunno what you want me to say. I mostly PVE with my commando and I recommended they do something like this so it's nice to see they listened. I agree with you though. This is it. I was just so prepared for whatever they were going to do being as big a charlie foxtrot as what they did to gut assault. Anything not a nerf is a win for me at this point remember?

 

Can't blame you for being touchy though. Told you their playtesting was just to make sure we could still be free kills =P

 

You may be surprised how little the percent of the population of swtor is that actually feels negatively about the merc changes, let alone will unsub because of the. The same people making even more noise than before is not fooling anyone. You represent about .0005% of the swtor community. Merc DPS got a buff and you're complaining, telling people they suck at their job. If you ran any part of this game I doubt there would even be a game to unsub from.

 

Attacking another forumer is against the Code of Conduct. Attacking a developer is absolutely absurd. I would be eagerly awaiting an explaination of your logic if there was any logic to explain.

 

Hey there cupcake, I was the one that said Austin sucked at his job and that was BEFORE the intended changes were posted. Anyway, this is akin to when they gave us an interrupt. It's definitely an improvement, but really it just brings the functionality of one our few bits of utility (in this case an armor debuff) up to the level of what similar classes were already doing, and helps our PVP burst marginally.

 

The rest of your thing is mostly an attack so all I got to say is "cool story bro", though I will note that last two times I called out the developers on being uncommunicative douchers we got a response. Correlation isn't causation, but still. Seems like the only time we can pry austin away from doing his job poorly is to tell him he does his job poorly. Seems is the key word, but my point is there.

That fellating comment better not be aimed at me =P

 

/innocent

 

Not you personally no I know you mainly PvE with your 'mando, and as we're not in such a bad place there any improvements are just gravy. That's ok.

 

As you know, I do nothing but PvP with Zach. I've pretty much hit a wall with him with regards PvP viability.

 

I know you've heard it before, but for the peanut gallery, I steamroll pugs, I annihilate baddies, but we only have so many combinations of buttons to push, and at the highest end of PvP the class just doesn't cut it.

 

We got some fantastic changes from 2.0, but so did everyone else, and we literally haven't moved in the power differential. As far as I can see, with the testing I've done on the PTS, and looking at these minor tweaks now, we're still bottom of the heap when it comes to our PvP-potential ceiling. Assault viability actually got reduced, and all of the feedback on problems with gunnery interrupts, mobility and even the viability of some of the new changes like adrenaline rush was ignored.

 

But hey, some utterly mediocre mercs are happy that they can continue to steamroll baddies in standard warzones, so everything is just peachy.

 

I'd love to see how Austin (or any of the other devs) performs in a high end RWZ with a DPS merc. I expect it'd be hilarious. Of course that will never happen, as I also expect neither he, nor any of the other devs with input into these changes have ever set foot in them. They just get their little bunch of keyboard turning baddies together for internal testing, pew pew each other and derp out another 'balance' patch based on who sucked the most.

 

Oh and metrics. Don't forget the metrics.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Jherad

As for your last sentence, I strongly suggest you not attack anyone then.

You assume I was talking to you. You assume wrong.

 

minor PVP applications aside it's not exactly what I'd call a nice buff

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

what do you mean interrupt immunity isn't a way to help PVP without changing PVE? Interrupt immunity would do NOTHING big in PVE. The bosses aren't falling over themselves to interrupt us

Read what I said. There are a few good ways to help PvP Mercs, and this isn't one of them.

 

you're talking out of your butt on DPS and should probably just shut the hell up.

Is that how you define someone disagreeing with you?

 

I was the one that said Austin sucked at his job and that was BEFORE the intended changes were posted.

No one said it better than you:

"cool story bro"

 

 

Additionally,

The rest of your thing is mostly an attack

An "attack" on an opinion is not the same as an attack on another member.

 

 

In summary,

Look you have a perfectly viable question regarding Merc heals

This probably would have been seen and answered had the mercenary/trooper players not exploded over the mere mention of an opinion on the class's subject differing from theirs. I do note that both of you have trooper avatars, and the one with characters in their signature only has a commando....

"cool story bro"

Edited March 26, 2013 by idnewton

doing well in regs =/= doing well in RWZ. which is what the issue is. most of us here in this thread are good enough to go on RWZ for starters. the point is that we easily match and surpass what we could do on Merc/Mando vs any other DPS class really.

 

this is not a huge buff. its a side-grade basically. it will make the TM->HSM combo much easier to perform, but we still have to spam TM to get stacks of Tracer Lock and proc Barrage. so to maximize our DPS in that spec, we *still* have to spam TM. a chunk of our damage has just been moved from the back of the rotation to the front.

 

is it a step in the right direction? absolutely. is there more that needs to be done? definitely. for starters, lowering the cooldown of Tech Override and Reserve Powercell.

 

if this is the only change that gets added to 2.0 for Mercs, nothing will really change. i hate to sound like a downer when we have finally gotten the devs to post in one of our threads, but the point of feedback and discussions is to affect changes to improve the class to a competitive level.

I do note that both of you have trooper avatars, and the one with characters in their signature only has a commando....

 

 

I have a bunch of 50s of different ACs. The commando is what I first started PvPing 'seriously' with, but I have plenty of PvP experience with others, particularly my juggernaut (my first 50), my gunslinger (my second 50) and sage (one of my latest 50s). My latest project is an operative.

 

I leave the commando only in my sig, as that is what I use for my youtube PvP videos, and I get quite a few whispers to him as a result (no complaints there, but sometimes a little anonymity is nice).

 

Now, if you're done insinuating.... No, of course not. Perhaps you can regale us with more stories of how the good players come out on top regardless of class. I do so enjoy fairytales

Edited March 26, 2013 by Jherad

OK, Merc DPS in general has been fixed. Lets move on.

 

If one of the two Merc dps trees has been fixed (debatable) and the other has been trashed and left for dead, how does that translate into "Merc DPS in general has been fixed"?

Eric why don't you just hear us out and give us a cd for interrupt immunity. Everyone who plays the class knows we need it. Heck if you read any of the forum posts you should know too.

Oh good. No devs will have to see it then.

 

Because moving the post to another forum means fewer devs will see it than if it gets deleted entirely.