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6.0 Crafting is Ludicrously a complete and total piece of Junk


bryceccoleman

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With 6.0 some brain dead person or persons in BIOWARE decided to destroy crafting for any and every item using grade 11 materials. Endless extra combine steps, material requirements at 20 times the amount of materials required for a similar grade 10 item, requiring master mode flashpoint, conquest or operations materials for even green 268 gear etc. Simply put crafting is no longer viable.

 

1. Material requirements are 10 times plus above 5.6. material yields only marginally increased on missions.

 

2. Green 268 gear requires an Isotope Stabilizer from master mode flashpoint, operations or ranked warzones.

 

3. Blue 276 augments require a Processed Isotope Stabilizer from master mode flashpoints, operations or ranked warzones and Solid Resource Matrixes from personal conquest and you raised the personal conquest level to 50K from 15K.

 

4. Basic items that were 2X2X2 mat requirements are now 10X10X10 such as assembly components, stims, med packs

You need to revert to 2X2X2 or only a slight increase to 3X3X3 to account for the increased mat drops.

 

The reinvention of crafting represented by this expansion is an unneccesary step backwards in crafting being viable to the game. Only the super elite will have access to crafting for viable gear. This pushes most players into the mercy of drops from Renown advancement only.

 

I am canceling any further subscription for this account and moving on to something else.

 

ERIC YOU NEED TO FIX THIS

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Lots of us PTS testers said exactly the same as you're saying now. Unfortunately BW did not make the changes we most requested. The more voices like yours are added to ours, the more pressure it'll put on BW to actually change what's necessary, so thanks for also speaking up.
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I can't say I'm surprised even a little. I really don't even know why they do the test center as they ignore the player feedback but that not really shocking. To be honest it didn't make sense from the start as it didn't follow how crafting has worked and the new system locks a lot of people out of crafting common green gear, which have little value anyway.

 

The only logical reason I can think of for these weird changes is that they are trying to force grouping or strongly encourage it by locking need materials behind it. This seems possible as they also are making content harder and moving up conquest etc, which all encourage group, specifically joining large guilds. It a bad move in my opinion and I think it just going to turn people off. It really makes me sad as I enjoy crafting.

Edited by SithEmpress
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Material requirements for crafting anything are absurdly high.

 

Group content materials and conquest materials required for starter 278 vendor schematics is either a complete design failure or a giant middle finger to crafters expecting to craft more than a couple of items a wekk.

 

More materials drop from nodes and are returned from missions, but not enough to offset the increased costs.

 

Jawa currency also drops frequently, but at a 200 jawa currency to one material, it is no where near an alternative source of materials.

 

Every item, including green starter items from the trainer, require materials from multiple gathering and mission skills (such as a green 278 synthweaving item requiring archaeology mats, UWT mats, and slicing mats).

 

What peeves me the most is that they obviously spent a bunch of development time reworking what should have been a copy / paste of the formula used for years to create this convoluted mess, development time that should have been spent on creating content.

 

Much like the new gearing system though - it seems a lot of work went into making things as grindy, time consuming, and convulsed as possible to mask the lack of actual content.

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IT WAS 10+10+10

 

It is now for Biochem 8+10+10

 

For the 268 implants it is 5 Isotopes you get about six from a flash point

2 Cell grafts and 20 Data spikes.

 

Before it was 10 Isotopes 10 Matrix from conquest 8 Cell grafts and 20 Data spikes.

 

So still too much but better than before. Still broken but not destroyed.

 

Until then use MK10 stuff

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Material requirements for crafting anything are absurdly high.

 

What peeves me the most is that they obviously spent a bunch of development time reworking what should have been a copy / paste of the formula used for years to create this convoluted mess, development time that should have been spent on creating content.

 

Much like the new gearing system though - it seems a lot of work went into making things as grindy, time consuming, and convulsed as possible to mask the lack of actual content.

 

You match how I feel. This isn't the first time they've wasted tons of hour revamping the class specs or gearing system but now its crafting, renown, and icons, etc. I keep thinking of all the hours they could have put in toward new content like story, PVP, raids, etc. I've never seen a game redo their core features ever two to three years when it's not like we're getting tons of content. Still, like the game just never did get wasting time on those features when it could go toward new content.

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Lots of us PTS testers said exactly the same as you're saying now. Unfortunately BW did not make the changes we most requested. The more voices like yours are added to ours, the more pressure it'll put on BW to actually change what's necessary, so thanks for also speaking up.

 

Or this is a commonly exercised management scam.

 

Management wants a particular state of affairs which they know will be unpopular because the little people will be worse off than they are now.

 

Management implement something more extreme than that, allow everyone to cry bloody murder, and then "graciously compromise" with the little people worse off and management getting exactly what they wanted.

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Or this is a commonly exercised management scam.

 

Management wants a particular state of affairs which they know will be unpopular because the little people will be worse off than they are now.

 

Management implement something more extreme than that, allow everyone to cry bloody murder, and then "graciously compromise" with the little people worse off and management getting exactly what they wanted.

Not quite sure what you're getting at?

 

They've already tried a minor compromise in making some changes - not remotely enough, in the opinion of most who answered at the time. We haven't caved and said that'll do. We remember what pre-6.0 crafting was like (I mean, it's only a couple of days ago...) We know crafting is not supposed to be a horrific, painful, punishing experience. We're going to keep advocating for something actually fun rather than accepting as sufficient whatever insufficient concessions are offered.

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Not quite sure what you're getting at?

 

The scam is as I described and incredibly simple to understand.

 

Management want to implement changes which result in people being worse off.

 

To mitigate the negative feelings from people about being worse, management run a simple scam.

 

In the first instance, they overshoot the mark and make people way worse off than they want or need to.

 

People get unhappy. Grumble. Maybe shake their fists and scream a bit.

 

Then management "graciously" and "humbly" respond to said feedback by toning down the negative changes to management's true desired state of affairs. Leaving people feeling "listened to" and "empowered" but truthfully just manipulated.

 

i.e. what we're seeing now is them overshooting their desired mark. They want us to be worse off. They want more credit sinks and grind etc. but not this bad. We complain. They "listen" and tone these changes down but don't reverse them.

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Then management "graciously" and "humbly" respond to said feedback by toning down the negative changes to management's true desired state of affairs. Leaving people feeling "listened to" and "empowered" but truthfully just manipulated.

Only if we let ourselves be manipulated. You see that happening in some specific way, point it out.

Edited by Estelindis
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every design aspect of 6.0 is terrible, its indicative of some muppet getting a promotion and thinking he knows best and forcing it on everyone else because they are dumb compared to him.

It does seem like a sudden departure from the previous system, so out of sync that I have to wonder how much ordinary crafting the person(s) who designed it actually did. Anyway, if your theory is correct, the best thing we can do is keep giving feedback that 6.0 crafting is not okay... The more we say that, the more the rest of BW gets a strong hand against whoever implemented this nonsense.

 

Hopefully they will realise one fundamental thing. The default state of crafters is that they want to craft. If crafters end up not crafting, it'll only be because crafting is fundamentally broken and no longer remotely fun.

Edited by Estelindis
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It does seem like a sudden departure from the previous system, so out of sync that I have to wonder how much ordinary crafting the person(s) who designed it actually did. Anyway, if your theory is correct, the best thing we can do is keep giving feedback that 6.0 crafting is not okay... The more we say that, the more the rest of BW gets a strong hand against whoever implemented this nonsense.

 

Hopefully they will realise one fundamental thing. The default state of crafters is that they want to craft. If crafters end up not crafting, it'll only be because crafting is fundamentally broken and no longer remotely fun.

 

Sadly what generally happens in this situation is the muppet concerned bunkers down because they are emotionally invested in their "vision" and they believe the complainants are stupid and just dont see things the way they should. Its why instead of taking all the proven and good parts of a game you will get "lead developers" trying to reinvent the wheel, developers should have nothing to do with direction, it should be in the hands of a project manager because they should be completely detached from the project emotionally and focus on making things work. Strangely though MMOs and computer games in general dont run like that, its an anachronism of the back room wonders who churned out gold on their little PCs in their spare time and hasnt gone away in spite of the monstrous budgets games have these days.

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The only recourse that the 'management' and 'dev team' will listen to is the sound of the subscribers leaving in droves. Which will happen. The changes to gearing, crafting and overall gameplay are terrible. Just terrible. Not even worth paying for.
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what we're seeing now is them overshooting their desired mark. They want us to be worse off. They want more credit sinks and grind etc. but not this bad. We complain. They "listen" and tone these changes down but don't reverse them.

This guy gets it...

You know few month prior, devs posted about accounts sitting on literal thousands of pile of mats and billions of credits. Though I do not support this "Kill'em all and let god sort it out" method but it works... So hold on about crafting... Its gutted for now but after a year of hoarding mats and things, you might get back in business. sell cartel stuff in meantime, I know I'd do that.

gl 'till then.

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Yup its pretty obvious this is an intentional credit sink - i imagine what they will do is monitor closely and 2 things will happen

 

1) People will still craft but buy a lot of mats - reducing large credit stockpiles - job done...EXTREMELY UNLIKELY

2) People will just not craft - stockpiles remain high - bioware realise it hasn't worked - respond with 'we've being listening' reduce mat requirements - this is the more likely result - however HOW long this takes is anyones guess

 

Its really just ridiculous - the amount of gear drops you get from just being level 75 makes crafting the greens absolutely pointless unless you're trying for schematics...which then require even more absurd amounts of materials...

 

You know this was intended by bioware by their silence on PTR around the topic (and only almost at go live did they respond - by reducing CONQUEST required mats for the greens...) and you can bet they will be silent on this topic for as long as they can until they realise that the attempt to drain credits from the economy has absolutely failed...

Edited by BigDRC
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1) People will still craft but buy a lot of mats - reducing large credit stockpiles - job done...EXTREMELY UNLIKELY

2) People will just not craft - stockpiles remain high - bioware realise it hasn't worked - respond with 'we've being listening' reduce mat requirements - this is the more likely result - however HOW long this takes is anyones guess

People will still craft out of habit and sense of accomplishment if nothing else.

GTN has always been flooded with crafted crap for 1/10 the price of the mats it took.

 

As a way to gear up, though, I found crafting needless in 5.0 already - there's too much stuff you get for free to bother. Unless we're talking 258, where it was made very exclusive.

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I can't say I'm surprised even a little. I really don't even know why they do the test center as they ignore the player feedback but that not really shocking.

 

 

They don't want or take advice from players/testers on the PTS. They have come out and said that before. The PTS is not for that, you are just there as a bug report.

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They don't want or take advice from players/testers on the PTS. They have come out and said that before. The PTS is not for that, you are just there as a bug report.

Really? That is not what they have said this PTS... We could see that they didn't take a lot of our feedback on board for the time being, but they did ask us to keep it coming. Unless they just said that but didn't mean it. Maybe it was one of those things they "had to say" and I naively believed they actually meant it.

Edited by Estelindis
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Really? That is not what they have said this PTS... We could see that they didn't take a lot of our feedback on board for the time being, but they did ask us to keep it coming. Unless they just said that but didn't mean it. Maybe it was one of those things they "had to say" and I naively believed they actually meant it.

 

If it gets to the PTS, the work has already been put in, they have already talked about the direction they are going in and it is done. They may fix things in future patches but they will not seriously consider any feedback from the tester's during that pts phase. "The PTS is not for that." Bugs only. It is one of the reasons I stopped testing. They would not listen to us. It has been going on for years, Sad part is, the player's who test on the PTS really know what they are talking about and have the best interest of the game in mind when they make their informed suggestions. They should listen, and don't.

 

It's their game tho, they can do what they want with it.

Edited by Chelz
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This guy gets it...

You know few month prior, devs posted about accounts sitting on literal thousands of pile of mats and billions of credits. Though I do not support this "Kill'em all and let god sort it out" method but it works... So hold on about crafting... Its gutted for now but after a year of hoarding mats and things, you might get back in business. sell cartel stuff in meantime, I know I'd do that.

gl 'till then.

 

Can’t tell if you are sarcastic or serious or a little of both. The point is that a year from now the green stuff will be obsolete. With all gear being legacy bound now there won’t be a need to use crafted stuff to twink your alts. That 277 green premium saber hilt that I can’t even craft three days into the expansion isn’t going to be needed when I can just send my 306 stuff to my alts to boost their iLvl and optimize their loot rolls.

 

This is a terrible system

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It has been going on for years, Sad part is, the player's who test on the PTS really know what they are talking about and have the best interest of the game in mind when they make their informed suggestions. They should listen, and don't.

 

It's their game tho, they can do what they want with it.

 

But it hasn’t. GSF/GOTM testing feedback during 5.x, and the Eternal Championship testing during 4.c, was never like this. It was a collaborative effort. It’s only recently with 6.0 testing that they seem to acknowledge the feedback but double down on their plan.

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2. Green 268 gear requires an Isotope Stabilizer from master mode flashpoint, operations or ranked warzones.

 

3. Blue 276 augments require a Processed Isotope Stabilizer from master mode flashpoints, operations or ranked warzones and Solid Resource Matrixes from personal conquest and you raised the personal conquest level to 50K from 15K.

 

Those are the issues I find unacceptable. People (particularly new players, if any exist) are going to get to 600, see the insane 500k cost to increase their skills and then see the isotope requirements, absolutely flip out and never look at crew skills again. Is it possible isotopes are dropping like candy now?

 

If getting to 75 took time and people had a few months to accumulate credits then maybe there might be some point in the direction this seems to be heading but an hour and a half after the servers came up on Tuesday I saw guildies hitting 75, even I got my first character to 75 soon after that. It seems to me this punishes new people and merely annoys old timers.

 

Like you, I am not interested in playing and paying for games developed and maintained by people who don't seem to actually play their own stuff. In my limited experience even when devs are active as players they don't play the way "normal" people play. They're in the most active, powerful guilds surrounded by sycophantic fans and never experience their own game the way the majority of the players do. Dara O'Briain did a hilarious, profanity laced bit on video games that sums things up.

 

I try to be supportive, I try to understand why changes are made and I try to cope and adjust. That street goes two ways though, our options as players are outgrowing the age of unresponsive megacorps.

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So I blew a lot of credits recently as I came back to actively playing. With the expansion coming out I wanted to return and really dig into the crafting aspects of the game as well as the parts of the game I can normally do as a very small guild member. So I worked up a full set of crafters on each side to 600 in prep for this expansion and I pay out the nose to get the onderon level training to work toward 700 and take two nights to get through the story due to continually stopping to chase squirrels and harvest mats. I do the new crafting and get my synthweaving up to 700 and start to really look at what actually making real items will cost and I realize I've wasted my time. To make blue level augments I need specialty mats that only drop in Mastermode FPs or Operations. Neither of which I can access as I'm not a part of a large guild which runs such on a regular basis. So I can't craft to make items that might acutally sell. Conquest has been raised to a level that my small guild might not even make the weekly goal on one side much less both so there goes the work on our guild ships, slow as it already was. And renown will be seasonal apparently so that access to get higher end gear is choked down. In short I'm seeing precious little reason to keep playing and that really hurts to say as I've been here since Beta and never let my sub drop even when I wasn't totally active.
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